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Post by davidofchatham on Sept 16, 2021 14:28:21 GMT -5
While (over?)thinking possibilities while I wait to be able to buy parts for reworking my guitar's controls, it occurred to me that it might be nice to have my volume control where the pickup selector switch usually is on LP-style guitars. I know that I can do whatever I want to with my own guitar, but I'm curious why I haven't seen anyone else do this. The closest I've seen is a Gretsch with the volume control on other side of the upper bout, below the strings. I've thought of two drawbacks: - To the extent that I actually learn to use the volume control while playing, I would reduce my ability to use other people's guitars
- The wiring would have to be re-routed
Is there another major drawback I'm missing? |
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Post by ashcatlt on Sept 16, 2021 16:49:23 GMT -5
In my LP, I replaced the toggle with a DP5T rotary wired basically like a Baja Tele but with an off position. Put one of those knurled steel tele knobs on it. Now when I accidentally hit it, instead of an unwanted tone change I just get pain and maybe blood.  |
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Post by unreg on Sept 16, 2021 17:02:57 GMT -5
Guitar wiring questions are allowed here, but it’s like trying to fit a round peg inside a square hole; frequently, excess oxygen complaints drown out the orders at the register.
(The cashier is the king; he gets free sugar packets.)
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Post by newey on Sept 16, 2021 20:53:15 GMT -5
Hey, anything's allowed here, it's the coffee shop. What's a wiring question or two, when at your actual favorite coffee shop you wait in line behind khaki-clad unrepentant yuppies who have byzantine coffee orders that take 10 minutes to relay to the besieged baristas . . . (OK, sorry, I had a bad day . . .  )
EDIT:Politeness compels me to at least acknowledge D of C's question: Yes, on the Gretsch models with three pots, that's the master volume, while the other 2 pots are neck and bridge pickup individual volume controls. Which has never made sense to me in the past (many years ago) when I played one, and still doesn't. If you're going to have 3 volume controls, wouldn't it be more sensible to put the neck volume up there on the bout near the neck pickup? With the master volume closest to the output jack? I suspect Gretsch put it on the lower bout so that people wouldn't hit the knob while strumming vigorously up towards the fingerboard. Or just easier to run the wires from the lower bout than the upper. But to my way of thinking, unless the position of the V pot lends itself to doing pinkie swells, then the position doesn't matter much wherever else it may be. That's one (of many) reason folks like Strats, that volume control placement. But neither the Gretsch placement nor your proposed upper bout location will allow for that, and, without that, the knob could be anywhere, you're still going to have to take your hands off the strings to adjust it. Just my 2¢. |
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Post by Yogi B on Sept 17, 2021 3:36:50 GMT -5
I'm curious why I haven't seen anyone else do this. I know of at least one LP someone modded to put a master volume in the toggle switch position, specifically this guitar: (The other knobs, contraclockwise starting from that closest to the bridge, are: neck volume, bridge volume, and master tone. The toggle switch is wired as normal.) Different, but since you also recently posted about blend controls, the Lola by CM Custom Guitars has a blend knob in place of the 3-way switch: But to my way of thinking, unless the position of the V pot lends itself to doing pinkie swells, then the position doesn't matter much wherever else it may be. That's one (of many) reason folks like Strats, that volume control placement. Not me, but I rarely make use of swells and prefer to use a foot for such things instead. The Strat placement is something I've learned to tolerate, for me the bridge is in the way of the natural angle I'd want to grab the volume for quickly rolling it up or down. Also, tending to play close to the bridge, I do occasionally smack into the thing if I'm absentmindedly strumming a bit too wildly. The (normal) Les Paul placement is much preferred to me for lack of those problems. Back on topic, to me the upper bout placement of the LP toggle switch is perfect: out of the way enough that it isn't in danger of being hit accidentally, yet easily operated when needed — so personally I wouldn't have it anywhere else. Even if that wasn't the case, putting a knob in its place seems like it would be ergonomically weird — I just can't imagine turning it in a way that wouldn't feel awkward. |
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Post by newey on Sept 17, 2021 7:36:10 GMT -5
I do occasionally smack into the thing if I'm absentmindedly strumming a bit too wildly I do so as well. On one of my Strat-ish guitars, I wired the V pot backwards so that, if I hit it, it turns it up, not down- and if it's all the way up already, then hitting it does nothing. I've had it that way for years, but the jury is still out on that mod because, while I don't do the swell thing a lot, it's sort of counter-intuitive when I do, and when I play a different Strat I get confused. A volume pedal would be a better solution for sure, I should get one. No room on the pedal board, though.  |
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Post by davidofchatham on Sept 17, 2021 17:03:27 GMT -5
In my LP, I replaced the toggle with a DP5T rotary wired basically like a Baja Tele but with an off position. Put one of those knurled steel tele knobs on it. Now when I accidentally hit it, instead of an unwanted tone change I just get pain and maybe blood. Hah! That sounds pretty neat — except for the potential for injury. I don't think I've ever bumped into the toggle switch on this guitar, though. For a while I had a Yamaha Tele-style guitar which had a Strat-like pickup selector that was right in the path of my strumming pattern. I still miss the guitar a little, but it would have to have relocated controls and a new pickguard to work for me. I've thought about a rotary too, but I don't think I have other useful wiring options with the stock pickups. I am thinking about a blend pot. Guitar wiring questions are allowed here, but it’s like trying to fit a round peg inside a square hole; frequently, excess oxygen complaints drown out the orders at the register. (The cashier is the king; he gets free sugar packets.) Well, I didn't think it was really a wiring question, more of an ergonomics and why-do-we-not-do-it-that-way question. Yes, on the Gretsch models with three pots, that's the master volume, while the other 2 pots are neck and bridge pickup individual volume controls. Which has never made sense to me in the past (many years ago) when I played one, and still doesn't. If you're going to have 3 volume controls, wouldn't it be more sensible to put the neck volume up there on the bout near the neck pickup? With the master volume closest to the output jack? That is a bit curious. On the other hand, the individual pickup volume controls seem to me to be more of a tonal setup option, while the master volume seems like what you would more likely grab while playing. Right? I'm thinking, mainly, that if the volume control were closer to me, it would be easier to make more precise adjustments to it — I like knobs with numbers on them, and an indicator tab (can't recall the precise name, but that little pointer thing that mounts under the knob and shows you where you have the knob set). I was also thinking that (for me) the pickup selector is a tonal option, and thus it would make sense to have it next to the tone control. But it may still be easier overall to have the volume control in the traditional position. Out of time for now; more later. Thanks for the responses, everyone! |
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Post by ashcatlt on Sept 17, 2021 19:06:09 GMT -5
I don't think I've ever bumped into the toggle switch on this guitar, though. My right hand moves from close to the bridge to up by the neck kind of based on what I think I need at the time, so pretty much no switch reasonable switch placement is totally safe. LPs tend to be worse than most, though, I guess because when I’m really flailing away big fast loud strums, it tends to be more up that way. Been playing a Jaguar lately, and the fact that pushing the slide switches toward the floor (way too easy to accidentally do) causes it to go silent really kinda sucks. Do you have the series option, or maybe out of phase? Or are these two wire pickups where the shield shares one of the signal wires permanently? |
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Post by gumbo on Sept 17, 2021 23:15:57 GMT -5
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Post by davidofchatham on Sept 20, 2021 16:39:09 GMT -5
I know of at least one LP someone modded to put a master volume in the toggle switch position, specifically this guitar: (The other knobs, contraclockwise starting from that closest to the bridge, are: neck volume, bridge volume, and master tone. The toggle switch is wired as normal.) Neat! I thought surely I couldn't be the only person to come up with this idea. Ooh, I like that. I prefer my guitars plainer, but that looks like a really nice instrument. Thanks for sharing. 🙂 Do you have the series option, or maybe out of phase? Or are these two wire pickups where the shield shares one of the signal wires permanently? I'm pretty sure these are two-wire pickups, but I don't remember if I've ever actually unmounted a pickup to confirm. I'll do that sometime soon. They're stock pickups on a pretty inexpensive guitar, though.... I don't think series would probably be very useful for me, but out-of-phase might be interesting.
I'm actually leaning toward keeping the conventional control layout now, mostly for my sake in case I ever want to play another electric guitar. But I'm still interested in modified controls (e.g., rotary selector or blend knob). |
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