babaloo69
Rookie Solder Flinger
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Post by babaloo69 on Jan 16, 2022 8:58:11 GMT -5
Please give me all the information you can on setting the intonation. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by thetragichero on Jan 16, 2022 12:26:14 GMT -5
in general, make the fretted 12th fret, 12th fret harmonic, and open string register the same pitch on your tuner. to lower the fretted 12th fret note, move the bridge saddle away from the nut. to raise the pitch, move the bridge saddle towards the nut
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 16, 2022 14:26:47 GMT -5
The best placed to look for that information is YouTube. Unless you're experiencing a problem a simple adjustment won't resolve, the process is straightforward and once you learn on one string they all act alike. Before you get to the intonation, there is also a few other matters that should be resolved first...like the overall condition of the neck (warp, bent, backbend, twist...etc) type of bridge or tailpiece.....
This should be about all you need to get started:
There are other concerns, like are you a soloist or a rhythm player. The guitar or bass neck is not a perfect science. Intonation is still a compromise or concession to imperfection. You can dial in areas of the neck into pretty good intonation, but if you wander around the fretboard you'll notice that no string stays perfectly intonated over its entire length.
It's been like that a long time, so I wouldn't suggest obsessing about it. There are some very expensive ways to get better intonation, but I would suggest no one you play with or for would notice the difference.
One thing I would suggest is a chromatic tuner that can accurately provide an analog\dial readout. Digital is nice, but that little needle makes the job much easier.
HTC1
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Post by b4nj0 on Jan 17, 2022 5:43:56 GMT -5
1/ Start off with brandy new (and not bargain bucket) strings. It's pointless to try to set intonation with old and / or dirty strings.
2/ If you find that a wound string refuses to intonate within the amount of adjustment available, see 1/ above.
でつ e&oe ...
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Post by reTrEaD on Jan 17, 2022 9:41:44 GMT -5
Please give me all the information you can on setting the intonation. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. My first suggestion would be to be specific about the type of bridge. Some bridges don't permit intonation adjustments. Others have limited adjustment -- each end of the bridge can be adjusted for distance but the individual "saddles" are fixed. The most Telecaster bridges have intonation adjustment for string pairs. Many bridges provide separate intonation adjustment for each string. Wear and/or damage can occur if adjustments are made when there is downforce on a bridge saddle. In most cases, the safer way to go is to de-tention the string, adjust the saddle, then re-tention (tune) the string and re-evaluate the intonation.
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Post by gckelloch on Jan 19, 2022 3:07:33 GMT -5
Wear and damage will also occur to the string as the saddle is moved and the break angle point changes. Best to start with the saddles relatively far back and only move them forward. I actually once had a D string that intonated correctly about halfway up the neck, and then changed dramatically for the rest of the way. I thought I may have entered an alternate reality at first, but then determined the winding had probably broken somewhere in the middle. I guess the winds were still tight enough that it did not come undone. Almost lost my mind on that...and it's not very a long trip.
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yanyan
Meter Reader 1st Class
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Post by yanyan on Jul 13, 2022 4:13:50 GMT -5
1/ Start off with brandy new (and not bargain bucket) strings. It's pointless to try to set intonation with old and / or dirty strings. 2/ If you find that a wound string refuses to intonate within the amount of adjustment available, see 1/ above. でつ e&oe ...
This is advice i used to follow with strict zeal until i got a strobe tuner. Then i started to question the point. If the string shows up as in-tune on the strobe, then it IS in-tune. Granted, i still wouldn't intonate rusty or corroded strings, but i'm not as finicky anymore when it comes to how old the strings are.
My advice to share in this thread:
1. Get yourself a strobe tuner for setting intonation. The Turbo Tuner is an amazing unit.
2. Intonation can also refer to setting nut height. Positions 1-6 also need to be intonated in order to play in tune. To do this, a set of nut files will be necessary. Just keep in mind that the intonation on this end of the guitar is more subject to compromise as it will never be as "perfect" as the intonation on the 12th fret.
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Post by b4nj0 on Jul 14, 2022 3:19:45 GMT -5
From my perspective this is a gross over simplification. Sure the string is "in tune", but then play (eg) an "E" chord up at the dusty end. Unless the bridge saddle(s) have been used to set the intonation, it's going to sound very angry indeed. Just ask pretty much any 12 string acoustic player or resonator player. Actually, getting closer to some ideal of "perfect" involves nut compensation too, and that in turn assumes optimum nut slot heights. Note that I did say "closer" ...
Without some attempt at intonation, cranking up to a tuner will see one first position chord (maybe) sounding sweet, but another not so sweet. Even if some acceptable degree of intonation is achieved, it all goes out of the window if you then retune to (say) an open tuning.
I have a mnemonic of my own design, I call it the *F* Word hint.
(Compared to the first harmonic) "If the 12th *F*retted note sounds *F*lat you have to *F*oreshorten the string" (hence move the saddle towards the nut.)
でつ e&oe ...
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Post by thetragichero on Jul 14, 2022 8:20:57 GMT -5
This is advice i used to follow with strict zeal until i got a strobe tuner. Then i started to question the point. If the string shows up as in-tune on the strobe, then it IS in-tune. Granted, i still wouldn't intonate rusty or corroded strings, but i'm not as finicky anymore when it comes to how old the strings are. yeah, no. the reason we set intonation with new strings is because after they're on a guitar being played for a long time they become deformed at the bridge saddle contact point and, if played long enough, at each of the frets. how you gonna properly intonate a bent up piece of metal? that being said, i don't like to intonate until the strings have been stretched (one of the reasons i give a few yanks on each string) and hold tune. make sure the witness point at the bridge is set
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Intonation
Jul 14, 2022 16:01:47 GMT -5
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Post by unreg on Jul 14, 2022 16:01:47 GMT -5
make sure the witness point at the bridge is set What is a witness point? And just to clarify, thetragichero quoted yanyan; b4nj0 did not take part in thetragichero’s last post/quote.
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Post by thetragichero on Jul 14, 2022 19:52:42 GMT -5
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Intonation
Jul 14, 2022 20:33:29 GMT -5
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Post by unreg on Jul 14, 2022 20:33:29 GMT -5
Thank you for explaining thetragichero! That’s really cool and makes tons of sense; without witness points, strings will keep changing pitch. Never knew that was called a witness point. Figured that out though. bad bb code on my part... i've fixed it almost And just to clarify, thetragichero quoted yanyan; b4nj0 did not take part in thetragichero’s last post/quote.
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Post by Yogi B on Jul 14, 2022 23:16:11 GMT -5
I have a mnemonic of my own design, I call it the *F* Word hint. (Compared to the first harmonic) "If the 12th *F*retted note sounds *F*lat you have to *F*oreshorten the string" (hence move the saddle towards the nut.) I'm somewhat surprised that this generally seems to trip up so many. Outside the scope of intonation, if you play a note that is flat, you correct (raise the pitch) by moving your fingering position towards the bridge, shortening the speaking length of the string. For bridge intonation it's exactly the same, except that you're making the adjustment at the other end of the string. Though, I appreciate that this may be more intuitively obvious for those who have experience with fretless instruments (or slide), where the degree of sharpness/flatness due to finger position is also continuous, rather than in discrete fretted steps. Perhaps a source of confusion is that with most (if not all) bridge designs moving a saddle towards the nut immediately lowers the tension and thus pitch? That is, opposite to the actual effect upon the intonation. This is advice i used to follow with strict zeal until i got a strobe tuner. Then i started to question the point. If the string shows up as in-tune on the strobe, then it IS in-tune. Granted, i still wouldn't intonate rusty or corroded strings, but i'm not as finicky anymore when it comes to how old the strings are. yeah, no. the reason we set intonation with new strings is because after they're on a guitar being played for a long time they become deformed at the bridge saddle contact point and, if played long enough, at each of the frets. how you gonna properly intonate a bent up piece of metal? Even if you could intonate it at the fundamental frequencies, the bends usually cause unpleasant overtones. That being said, since the visual feedback from a strobe tuner is analogue, I guess it is likely to display a more obviously confusing output in this case, versus something doing digital pitch detection and displaying the measurement of the single most prominent frequency. bad bb code on my part... i've fixed it almost I fixed it betterer.
And even though it's now 6 months since the initial question was asked, expanding upon a couple of points already raised: Intonation does not necessarily have to be performed at the 12 th fret, the matching of the fretted note to the 12 th fret harmonic / open string is probably most common because it is the easiest to performed without aid of a tuner, i.e. by ear by persons who may not have perfect pitch. You should set the intonation at the fret(s) which are most relevant to your playing ("fret(s)" because it's conceivable that you might even vary the choice of fret per string). Secondly, and partially related to the above & what other's have stated about nut compensation: as an alternative it can sometimes make sense to tune the string based upon a (low) fretted note rather than fully open to the nut. Thereby resulting in perfect tuning at that fret, but a slightly off-tune open frequency. For me, I find it particularly helps most when applied to the thickest unwound string, tuning at the second or third fret. Though again this is dependent upon what fits best with your guitar(s) & your playing.
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yanyan
Meter Reader 1st Class
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Post by yanyan on Jul 16, 2022 10:42:39 GMT -5
This is advice i used to follow with strict zeal until i got a strobe tuner. Then i started to question the point. If the string shows up as in-tune on the strobe, then it IS in-tune. Granted, i still wouldn't intonate rusty or corroded strings, but i'm not as finicky anymore when it comes to how old the strings are. deformed at the bridge saddle contact point and, if played long enough, at each of the frets
The part "deformed [...] at each of the frets" made me see the light. Thank you.
However i'd like to point out that setting the witness points at the bridge saddle (and at the nut, though you didn't mention that) _deforms_ the strings. Perhaps it would be best to set intonation before setting witness points?
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Intonation
Jul 16, 2022 19:52:41 GMT -5
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Post by thetragichero on Jul 16, 2022 19:52:41 GMT -5
no set the witness point at the bridge (shouldn't have to set it at the nut). don't think too much about this stuff
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