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Post by borsanova on Dec 16, 2006 19:24:44 GMT -5
A good question and my answer:
From: Steve A. Date: 2/25/2005 4:11 PM Subject: Re: Jimmy Page Les Paul wiring
I didn't realize that you were switching the internal wiring of the bridge humbucker from series to parallel; I think it was DiMarzio who introduced that to most of us, calling it "Dual Sound". It was offered mainly as an alternative to splitting coils, as it would retain the humcancelling abilities and not be quite as thin as a split coil. AFAIK the JP wiring does not use the Dual Sound wiring at all... but that is Jimmy's loss! Hmmm... I never tried Dual Sound with my JB, but I have noticed that the JB sounds better split than many humbuckers. With other humbuckers I felt that the Dual Sound parallel mode made them sound more like something on a Gretsch C&W guitar. Maybe I'll try wiring up the coil split mini-toggle as a dual sound switch.
Steve Ahola P.S. You are combining the two pickups together in series and in parallel, in addition to the Dual Sound switching - right?
REPLY From: Borsanova @ Date: 2/25/2005 7:52 PM Subject: Re: Jimmy Page Les Paul wiring Steve wrote: P.S. You are combining the two pickups together in series and in parallel, in addition to the Dual Sound switching - right? The answer is yes and out of phase, too. The trick on my wiring is (maybe that wasn't too clear in my postings?) that the neck coil tap switch on the neck tone control has even another function: it switches the bridge coil tap from "dual sound" to single coil. That means the other way round that with the neck pickup coil-tapped (single coil) you can switch the bridge pickup to single coil too. But with the neck humbucker you can switch the bridge only to "dual sound". This is what I mean with the four combinations above. The hidden mini-switch serves then to transfer that function from the upper to the lower lug, thus rearranging the combinations and allowing, for instance, dual sound with neck single coil (what I called 3 single coils). But you loose the "PAF Les Paul".
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Post by borsanova on Dec 16, 2006 19:11:36 GMT -5
Here are some impressions I posted on another board shortly after finishing my Twenty-Dual (At that time I still had my Epiphone stock pu, which gave me some problems regarding the equilibrium when switching from bridge to neck) :
I've played my Jimmy Page Les Paul for a week and I'm still exploring all the possibilities. But I think I can add some more about the different tonal characters of some of the pickup combinations. First I want to say that after a few days I've returned my mini-switch back to the original idea. The 3-single-coils mode is quite funny for a while, delivering some curious funky sounds, but I can do without that especially since the 2-single-coils combinations come quite close to it. So the four possibilities are now like pointed out at the beginning of this post: 1. both humbuckers 2. neck single coil and bridge humbucker (serial) 3. neck humbucker (serial) and bridge humbucker (parallel) 4. both single coils There is one big advantage to this that regards in particular the third combination and I'll try to explain it here (sorry, but will take a bit longer): For many years I've played only on my Ibanez ES 345 which has two PAF pickups that are completely identical. On this guitar I developed my habit to switch between the two pickups inside a song. Two examples may be Neil Young's Powderfinger and Thin Lizzy's Southbound. Towards the end of the refrain I switch to the bridge pickup to accentuate the harder guitar phrases. At the beginning of the next verse I go back to the neck (with a little tone control, too). But I hate it, if these changes sound to evident, especially when I get back to the neck. To avoid this you need two pickups in a good equilibrium. That was even the case with the two stock humbuckers in my Les Paul, but since the day I changed the bridge pu, I've always been fighting to control the output gap between the two pickups. Putting in a 17k JB has even worsened the situation and when I first played one of the songs above I almost regreted replacing the originals. But then I discovered that there is a quite simple solution. I just put the JB in parallel mode and it goes back to 8,5k like a slightly hotter PAF humbucker. The result is a perfect equilibrium between the two pickups and moreover even a nice equidistant inbetween sound with both pickups in parallel :-)) The JB in parallel comes really close to a nice PAF sound and thus I got now at least two guitars in one. With ultra hot bridge pu in combination 1 and with a PAF sound in combination 3. The songs above are now played with combination 3 and when it comes to the solos I still got reserves like turning the bridge to serial or throwing in the neck in serial mode. I guess this could be a quite interesting lesson for all of you guys who got the Seymour Duncan favorite combination with a JB in the bridge and a Jazz in the neck. One push pull switch for parallel mode of the JB and you'll have a classic PAF guitar, too!
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Post by borsanova on Dec 16, 2006 18:54:31 GMT -5
My guitar is an Epiphone Les Paul with a Seymour Duncan JB (16k) in the bridge position and a DiMarzio PAF (8,5k) in the neck position. In a first moment, when I finished my wiring, I realized that the single coil combinations were not hum-canceling. I don't know if this was due to the fact that I used Duncan and DiMarzio in combination or maybe because the DiMarzio came possibly from a bridge position (though I bought it as neck pu on Ebay, it came with very short wires). In order to solve the problem, some advisors suggested to flip the magnets in one of the pickups, but I found an easier way. In fact I flipped the in/out connections with the coil tap connections on my DiMarzio. So on my guitar connections 5 and 6 are reversed as well as 7 and 8. You should take this into account and try it out before definitely installing your pickups.
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Post by borsanova on Dec 16, 2006 18:38:21 GMT -5
The following is a wiring instruction for my Les Paul Twenty-Dual: Maybe it is useful, too. Included in this description is a mini toggle switch, which gives 8 more combinations, all non hum-canceling. I installed it hidden in my back routing, just to find out how they'd sound, but I only used it in the very first weeks. This switch is not represented in my schematic.
Let's start with the definitions. As I told before there are four push-pull pots, named as follows and with different functions:
NV : The neck volume control switches the neck pu out of phase
BV : The bridge volume control switches both pickups in serial mode, but only when the bridge pickup is selected. With the pickup selector in the middle or in the neck position you only hear the neck pu.
BT : The bridge tone control switches the bridge pickup from serial humbucker to parallel humbucker.
NT : The neck tone control switches the neck pickup to single coil and, when the bridge tone control is pulled, it also switches the bridge pickup to single coil. Each switch has six lugs placed and named as follows: 1+ +2 3+ +4 5+ +6 1 and 2 are the upper lugs for pulled mode, 5 and 6 are the lower lugs for pushed mode. Thus, for instance, BV3 means the left middle lug of the bridge volume switch. Each pot (NVP, BVP, BTP, NTP) has three lugs, named a, b and c, where a is placed at one o'clock, b is at two o'clock and c is the grounded lug at three o'clock. The bridge pickup (BPU) has four wires: 1,2,3,4. The neck pickup (NPU) has at least three wires: 5,6+7(coil tap),8. These are the connections: NV1 to NV6 NV2 to NV5 and NPU8 NV3 to ground NV4 to NVb and BV2 NV5 to NV2 NV6 to NV1 and NPU5 NVa to pickup selector and NTP NVb to NV4 BV1 to BV2 BV2 to BV1 and NV4 BV3 to BT1 BV4 to BPU4 BV5 to ground BV6 to ground BVa to pickup selector and BTP BVb to BPU1 and NT4 BT1 to BV3 BT2 to NT6 (eventually passing over mini-switch) BT3 to BPU2 BT4 to BPU3 BT5 to BT6 BT6 to BT5 NT1 to ground NT2 - (eventually to mini switch) NT3 to NPU6+7 NT4 to BVb NT5 - NT6 to BT2 (eventually passing over mini-switch) That's all. Considering also the mini-switch this will give you 30 different combinations. Good luck!
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Post by borsanova on Nov 3, 2006 19:06:05 GMT -5
Here is my improved version of Jimmy Page's Les Paul. I call it the Les Paul Twenty-Dual. It has 22 different sounds, one more than Jimmy's, since it includes also a dual sound for the bridge pickup (in my case a Duncan JB) with parallel wiring for both coils instead of serial. Moreover I eliminated the muted positions on Gibson's reissue and I moved the push/pull controls to a more rational configuration (Jimmy's original has the coil tap switches on the volume controls). On my guitar they are moved to the tone pots while the switches on the volume pots control serial and out-of-phase switching: Here is what the four push-pull pots do: The bridge volume control switches both pickups in serial mode, but only when the bridge pickup is selected. With the pickup selector in the middle or on the neck you only hear the neck pu. The neck volume control switches the neck pu out of phase. It only works with both pickups selected, that is with the pickup selector in the middle position or, when serial mode is selected, with the pickup selector in the bridge position. The bridge tone control switches the bridge pickup from serial humbucker to parallel (Dual sound). The neck tone control switches the neck pickup to single coil and, when the bridge tone control is pulled, it also switches the bridge pickup to single coil. Why I recombined the push/pull pots? I think my configuration is much more rational, because it puts each switch exactly where you would search and eventually miss it on a standard guitar. Here are my arguments for each new combination. Tone controls and coil tap: Usually guitarists use their tone controls to muffle their sound and that's what they do best. But almost as often you touch the same controls hoping to find some space for brightening your sound. How many times have you been frustrated, finding that the tone control was already at ten? On my Les Paul you have the solution immediately at hands: just pull your switch for dual sound or coil tap and the sound will become brighter. Bridge volume and serial: Serial wiring of two pickups brings the highest volume and distortion. Usually you need it when you're playing solo, that is you're already playing your bridge pickup and often you need more volume to come up against the other instruments. When you reach down to the volume knob and find you're already at ten, a little pull can now provide the ultimate boost you were looking for. Neck volume and out-of-phase: The out-of-phase switch should in any case be combined with a volume control, because only the latter permit to control the equilibrium between the two signals. By differentiating the volume of each pickup you can mix the signals and control how much of the lower frequencies will be cancelled. Often you will find that you pull your out-of-phase switch and that your sounds becomes much thinner than you expected. In this case you got your fingers already where it counts. Simply reduce your neck volume from ten to eight and you'll hear how your sound becomes thicker again. Reassuming in the simplest manner, my guitar has one push/pull switch that makes the sound fatter (the bridge volume) and three push/pull switches that make it thinner. This makes it really easy to handle and if you remember these main rules it is almost impossible to get lost between the switching possibilities (which is not so improbable on many modded Stratocasters or on a Brian May Red Special). How I got to my Twenty-Dual wiring? I had already designed my 21 mode wiring scheme, when I decided to try and change the bridge pickup mod from single coil to parallel (Dual sound). It is not too difficult and when I finished it, I started to study hum-cancelling effects of the combined modes. So I realized that it wasn't very smart to combine a parallel humbucker with a single coil, since this would never be hum-cancelling. Then my eyes fell on the neck tone pot which had still an unused pole and I thought I could use this to switch the bridge pickup to single coil when combined with the neck single coil. That's it. Now I got 16 two-pickup combinations (like Jimmy's), and six one-pickup modes (one more than Jimmy): neck humbucker neck adjustable coil neck stud coil bridge adjustable coil bridge parallel coils (dual sound) bridge humbucker The pickup wirings in combination are always: parallel in phase parallel out of phase serial in phase serial out of phase all four with four pickup combinations: both humbuckers neck single coil and bridge humbucker neck humbucker and bridge dual (or parallel) coils both single coils If you do it right, three of these combinations will always be hum-cancelling and only the second one is not. That makes up for a total of 15 hum-cancelling sounds and only 7 that aren't, a much better ratio than on Jimmy's guitar which has only at best 10 hum-cancelling sounds. Enough words for now! Here is my schematic:
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Post by borsanova on Feb 26, 2007 9:53:27 GMT -5
If you put a neck-on switch into your guitar, you can use the free side of your switch for putting the bridge in series with the middle pickup for a full humbucker sound. Thus your combinations would be:
Switch pulled: N+B; N+M+B; M; M+B, B
Switch pushed: N; N+M; M; M; BxM
If you like it, I guess I can post a schematic.
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Post by borsanova on Feb 26, 2007 10:05:30 GMT -5
If you have 6 pots on your guitar, then you're right assuming that they are 3 volume and 3 tone pots, each for an individual pickup. I don't think it is much important which knobs are assigned to which pickup. Choose to assign them in a rational manner that suits your orientation. Another design of the Strato was with only four knobs. This was similar to the Jaguar, with a rhythm (neck and middle) and a lead circuit (bridge plus eventually active circuit). You could also choose this design and use the remaining pots as a master volume and tone (though this is not the original wiring).
By the way: Where did you place your phase switch?
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Post by borsanova on Feb 21, 2007 18:08:07 GMT -5
Nice guitar. I had two of them, one was with an active circuit, while the other one was passive with several capacitors. Since it was built for over a decade, I guess there are lots of different "original wirings" for the Strato Deluxe, maybe you can find some schematics with Google. Anyway I think that it won't be easy to return it to stock. I'd suggest instead to use the leftover switches for some of the useful features discussed on this board.
Anyway here is what I remember about the original wiring of mine: Usually the Strat Deluxe has three on/off switches near the upper horne, one for each pickup. The pickups are in parallel, with the neck pickup out-of-phase. Then there were two or three more toggle switches somewhere on the board for caps and/or active circuits. Since you don't mention them, maybe your's is without. But if you got them you can use them for out-of-phase and serial switching. Usually the Strato Deluxe had the neck and middle pickup in permanent out-of-phase, but with a phase switch for the neck it would be more flexible. For serial wiring you could choose the bridge pickup. Finally you could experiment with some tone capacitors. Mine had at least one or two switches throwing in a cap, but the sound effect they gave was very subtle.
Hope this helps
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Post by borsanova on Mar 24, 2007 19:02:42 GMT -5
So I got my rotary switch and during the Easter vacancies I think I can find the time to heat my iron. The rotary is a 4-way 6-position switch though, and this means that I have to slightly rethink my project. No problem at all. I think I'll go for doubling the broadbucker sound (former position 2) with two different tone capacitors for different frequency cut-offs.
This will give me the following positions:
Position 5: out-of-phase parallel Position 6: out-of-phase series Position 1: standard parallel Position 2: broadbucker series (with .022uF cap) Position 3: fuller broadbucker series (with .0022uF cap) Position 4: full series
I've read that standard tone caps for Les Pauls are .022uF, so I guess I'll keep this value. Then I'll choose a smaller value for a fuller sound closer to full serial wiring. I thought I'd go for .0022uF, but I haven't got any experience. That's why I ask you. Do you think the two values are too close? Should I choose an even smaller one for position 3 or an even bigger one for position 2? It would be no problem to experiment with different caps in a Les Paul, but remember that this is a 345 and it's a hell of a work to stuff that rotary switch and all the other wiring into the body. So I'm truly hoping to get it right at the very first shot!
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Post by borsanova on Jan 26, 2007 17:54:41 GMT -5
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Post by borsanova on Jan 26, 2007 10:11:11 GMT -5
This is a mod for my Ibanez ES-345 copy: I bought this guitar 20 years ago with a 3-way-varitone switch that was extremely muffled and thus completely useless. Therefore, at a certain point, I decided to use it for some experiments like out-of-phase and series switching, giving it also better pickups (Mighty Mites classic PAF, really good). It was the first guitar I modded, and I redid it several times until I got it right. I also installed two coil tap switches (in the upper f-hole and in the pickup-frame) and so I currently got 16 different sounds (4 single pickup sounds, 4 parallel combos, 4 series combos and 4 parallel out-of-phase combos). When I discovered new sounds like the broadbucker configuration I first thought that it would be impossible to install it on my 345, because on that one I had the series connection going from the neck to the bridge. But then I learned on this forum how to install a tone bypass in any position and now I think I'm able to install a broadbucker mod without changing pickups and all the rest. For the theories of broadbucker view here: guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=wiring&action=display&thread=1166627614So here is my project. Since I need a new varitone switch I've opted for a four-way-five-position switch and this gives me also the possibility to install the series out-of-phase mod. Since my varitone plate has only three numbers (1,2,3), I've decided to place the standard mod in the middle at position 1 and the remaining two (4 and 5) above or left of it (clockwise backwards). Thus I can subsequently switch from thinnest to thickest sounds. This is the reason why you find a strange numbering on my varitone . For a correct reading of the wiring diagram it is therefore important to consider that the pins connecting to the inner poles are the ones actually opposing it, that is the ones that are going clockwise from 4 to 5 to 1, 2 and 3. The varitone functions are as follows: Position 4: out-of-phase parallel Position 5: out-of-phase series Position 1: standard parallel Position 2: broadbucker series Position 3: full series In position 4 we start with the thinnest sound and it works only in the middle position. In position 5 and 2, the ones closest to standard and thus easy to access, are the best sounds for soloing (series out-of-phase and broadbucker). These are the new sounds I didn't have on the previous version of this guitar and I expect them both to be very useful. In position 2 I've put the broadbucker series combo, which is the same as position 3 (series), but with a tone cap in parallel to the neck pickup. The broadbucker should be really rousing, while the full series sound is dark and mean. Positions 2, 3 and 5 are audible with the pickup selector in the neck position, while in the middle and bridge position only the bridge pickup will be audible. I know that this wiring scheme is not the cleanest by your standards. There are shunted coils, non-hum-cancelling single coil out-of-phase combos and even pickups hanging in certain positions both sides from hot (in the series combos when the pickup selector is in the middle or bridge position). But with the installed switches I don't see any solution to these issues and I've experienced that I can actually live with it, being those the sounds and combinations I use less. For any other guitar with two humbuckers I'd choose my Jimmy Page design with dual sound, but this guitar has the rotary switch and thus I have to go for a compromise. Now I have to find the new 5-way-rotary switch to build it. I think my schematic is okay, but maybe someone might want to check it? Thanks for any comments. And here she comes:
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Post by borsanova on Jan 25, 2007 16:55:06 GMT -5
To recognize an out-of-phase sound I guess you'll need a guitar with this option and then it's still not easy to be sure about it. There are just too many other factors influencing a guitar sound (like amps, effects, equalizers etc.). Usually an out-of-phase sound is hollow ("twangy") and sharp, but there are many guitars sounding similar without being out-of-phase and other guitars that are out-of-phase when you wouldn't tell.
You certainly know Deep Purple's Smoke on the Water and you'll probably remember it as a tune with a full throttle bassy power riff. Well, eehm, that's what I thought too, but when I modded my first guitar with out-of-phase option and started playing that song, I realized that I'd never come so close to the original sound before, although I had a completely different guitar (Ibanez 345 instead of a Strat). Blackmore's Strat is actually out-of-phase on that one, but I couldn't tell which pickups and whether they are in series or in parallel!
AFAIK B.B.King's Lucille has simply one pickup out-of-phase, so with the pickup selector switch in the middle position it's always out-of-phase. But even in this case you still got a lot of options, because a 335 has two volume controls and this allows to mix the signals. If you turn the controls of one of your pickups to 8 you'll realize how the out-of-phase effect slightly disappears as the other pickup starts to prevail. With one volume at 10 and the other on 5 it is almost completely gone.
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Post by borsanova on Jan 25, 2007 16:21:09 GMT -5
Oh I've just realized that while I was writing my answer, JohnH has posted his. Thus I don't know if the following will add anything new, but I'll post it anyway. What you are planning is possible, if you invert the in and out connection of your middle pickup. Turning the pickup round 180°, as suggests zamzara, won't do it. But before you cut your wires you should check and consider a few things. First check if your middle pickup is reverse wound. In this case the B+M and M+N combinations are hum-cancelling. You check this by selecting the middle pickup alone and holding your guitar plugged but without playing close to a computer, a lamp or some other electric source. Now you will hear a strong hum from your amp, but when you choose position 2 or 4 (B+M or M+N), the hum will dissappear. That means your middle pickup is reverse wound. If not the better for your project. this would mean you're really lucky, but I don't believe it since all modern Strats got the middle reverse wound. So if yours is too, you should consider that you'll lose the hum-cancelling effect when putting your middle pickup out of phase. To preserve it at least partly there are a several solutions: 1. You can flip the magnet in your middle pickup. This would give hum-cancelling out of phase for pos. 2 and 4. 2. You can invert the neck pickup instead of the middle. This would give non-humcancelling out-of-phase only for the M-N combo (probably the most useful) and hum-cancelling in phase for B+M 3. You can exchange positions of the middle and neck pickup and invert the new middle. this would give both out-of-phase, but only the B-M would be hum-cancelling.
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Post by borsanova on Jan 24, 2007 10:25:13 GMT -5
Hi christomephisto,
I realize from your questions and comments that the idea of broadbucker wiring is not yet clear. So I'll try again.
A cap in series may fatten up the sound, but this is not what broadbucker is about. Broadbucker fattens the sound in comparison to a single coil or a parallel wiring, but in comparison to a series combination it broadens the sound, that is most of all it gets brighter.
This is done with a trebles bypass to your neck pickup, that is a capacitor in parallel with your neck pickup. This way you exclude your neck pickup from contributing trebles to the overall sound and with the cap activated you'll get the trebles only from the bridge pickup. The bass and middle frequencies will be full throttle, but the trebles will come as sharp as ever from your bridge pickup alone.
Since the difference of sound between your pickups is given mainly by their different position towards the bridge, the higher the distance between the two, the more you can expect to broaden your sound with the above trick.
One downfall of this design is however, when you use it with single coils, that it's only halfwise hum-cancelling, that means it's ok for the lower frequencies, but not for the trebles hum.
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Post by borsanova on Jan 23, 2007 12:20:35 GMT -5
Gonna go dig through the schems for ideas, I like the Broadcaster one, kind hard with 2 pups tho, No problem with two pickups, important is however the distance between the two. In my experience a broadbucker gives even a more evident effect with single coils rather than with humbuckers. This is for instance the case with my DeArmond, the guitar on which I found this feature (view here): guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=schem&action=display&thread=1162666265Before that I had the same feature for two years on my Les Paul, but I never realized it. Now for best broadbucker effect on the Les Paul I put the bridge in local parallel mode. With two humbuckers it's hotter, but since both pickups are rather similar it is less evident. maybe a cap on the neck before in series with the bridge Yes, that's the way it's done.
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Post by borsanova on Jan 22, 2007 20:02:52 GMT -5
Are the two pickups wired in series? In this case you can certainly achieve a fatter sound. It's not a tone boost, but if you bypass certain parts of the sound spectrum of each pickup or only one of them you can even get a broader sound in what I call a "broadbucker" configuration. Soundwise the result is quite similar to a treble boost. For the theories of broadbucker wiring look here: guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=wiring&action=display&thread=1166627614
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Post by borsanova on Jan 27, 2007 6:01:01 GMT -5
I'd eliminate the need for having many guitars, and a new paradigm would ensue. Yes, I thought that, too, but it will never happen. The more I modded them, the more I realized that all my guitars are completely different beasts, each with its own unique character. I can try to emulate a thing or two, expand the range a bit, but when it comes to playing a certain song it has to be the one and nothing else. I can't play Barracuda but with my 345, because no other has such huge harmonics. I can't play November Rain but with my Les Paul, can't play Rebel Rouser or Bandit but with my DeArmond T-400. For playing 20th Century Boy and Children Of The Revolution I surely got the super distortion combo (24k) on my Les Paul, but my Washburn BT-10 still beats it on those without any modification. I can emulate certain Pretenders sounds with my modded Strat (B-N), but the real thing will only be a Telecaster. And when it comes to playing some Jimi Hendrix I put aside my Fender Mexico Strat and pick up a cheap 60$ copy with awful pickups because only that one gives me the real hollow psychedelic hum.
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Post by borsanova on Jan 22, 2007 19:40:56 GMT -5
I'm doing a little count to understand how many sounds you can get with the configuration I proposed:
You got 5 stock sounds,
5
but now each of your outer pickups has two more sounds.
5+4=9
These can also be combined with the middle pickup in parallel.
9+4=13
With the neck-middle out of phase combo you get 3 more.
13+3=16
Now we move to the bridge-on switch putting the bridge pickup in parallel. Since both pickups have three different modes, this gives us a number of bridge-neck combos (3x3): nine phase sounds and nine out-of-phase sounds.
16+18=34
The same can be done adding the middle pickup in parallel for 18 more sounds.
34+18=52
Now we put the bridge pickup in series mode and this gives us 36 (18+18) additional sounds.
52+36=88
Last but not least we can throw in the broadbucker cap for the neck pickup. In the proposed project this works only with the neck in phase and soundwise it makes real sense only in series mode. So if my calculation is right we get only 18 sounds in broadbucker mode, but this brings us to
88+18=106
Finally I forgot that the neck pickup in single coil mode will be playable on each coil due to the phase switch, thus adding up to a total of
106+1=107
107 different sounds!
Huge! A real Tone Monster. Anybody wants to build it?
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Post by borsanova on Jan 21, 2007 12:30:50 GMT -5
This is a HSH configuration, right? Okay here is some idea on where to be headed. This is how I would do: Keep your original 5-way switch and place four or five toggle switches in a row or in two pairs one above the other. In the lower position place two three-position toggle switches to get serial and parallel humbucker and single coil for each your neck and bridge pickup. In the upper position on the neck side place a three position neck out-of-phase switch with a tone bypass cap for the third position (serves for broadbucker). In the upper position on the bridge side place another 3-position switch as a bridge-on switch, with parallel and serial option. Here's a diagram of the switches and what the single positions should do: bridge on parallel | neck out of phase | bridge off | neck in phase | bridge on in series | neck tone cap bypass | - | - | bridge SC | neck SC | bridge dual sound | neck dual sound | bridge HB | neck HB |
In combination with your 5-way switch this should give you at least 30 different combos of all kinds. I guess that others might have different suggestions, so take some time to reflect on your definitive configuration. In the meantime you can study how to achieve each of the above goals. You'll find lots of examples on this board. Then when you have defined your project, we can study possible wirings.
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Post by borsanova on Jan 21, 2007 5:56:17 GMT -5
With three pickups you have even more possibilities and that's why we can't start posting solutions without some serious choices from your side:
How many extra switches (besides the 5-way) can you install? Do you prefer heavier (full distortion) or thinner (out-of-phase) sounds or are you willing to have them both? Do you need mellow jazz sounds (single coil on the neck) or would you like broadbucker sounds for screaming heavy metal? Do you want sharp surf sounds (out-of-phase bridge-middle) or do you prefer more traditional twangy out-of-phase sounds (neck-bridge)?
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Post by borsanova on Jan 20, 2007 10:55:26 GMT -5
First of all thanks for considering my Les Paul Jimmy Page design. The biggest difference with your guitar is that yours has only 2 pots (volume and tone). I understand that you got one push/pull, so you'd need at least three more switches to realize all the 22 principal sounds of my Les Paul. Still then, without a second tone pot, you wouldn't be able to realize the broadbucker sound, - unless you add maybe another switch to throw in the cap (and that would make four switches!). I've drawn a schematic to show how this can be done on a guitar with just one tone control. You find it here: guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=wiring&action=display&thread=1166627614Those three switches realize dual sound, broadbucker and serial (Broadbucker works only in combination with serial). If you don't want to overload your guitar with switches, you can try to reduce the options. Do you really need coil tap or out-of-phase? Do you need super distortion and broadbucker? It depends on your pickups and your musical taste, too. Do you prefer thinner or fatter sounds? Just ask yourself and make your choice. On the other hand it is nice to have all the possibilities available. Personally I use them all from the thinnest to the fattest. And certainly it may also be a cute way to impress your bandfellows and fans by sporting a whole battery of shiny new toggle switches ;D Just take care to place them in a rational order (maybe from thin to hot), so you won't get lost in your switchings
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Post by borsanova on Jan 16, 2007 9:47:38 GMT -5
Why don't you take a look at my broadbucker design? I've just posted two new schematics that could do for your case.
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Post by borsanova on Jan 17, 2007 10:26:23 GMT -5
Hi and thanks for taking in consideration my broadbucker idea.
I don't think that I can answer all of your questions, but I'll do my best. First I have to admit that I have always tremendous difficulties to understand those 5-way switches and the respective diagrams. That is because I don't understand which is the zero pin and which pins are connected with the switch in position 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5. That's why I probably understand only half of your wiring.
So here is my comments as far as I can follow:
Regarding my Les Paul wiring you wrote: "It looks to me like the tone pots are wired as normal, and would not produce the effect he described."
Your impression is correct (that means you followed it!). I haven't changed anything on the wiring of the tone control. In fact this isn't necessary to make your broadbucker work. The tone cap produces the broadening because it is placed after the bridge pickup and before the neck pickup, thus excluding the latter from contributing to the trebles section of your sound spectrum. The trebles come from the bridge alone. The bass and middles from both pickups in series.
Your other questions:
Q1. This should be possible when your guitar is in serial mode, but since I don't understand the 5-way switch I can't tell you how to do it on your guitar. Have a look at my Les Paul and follow only the series wiring (upper position of bridge volume) to see how it's done.
Q2. It don't seem to me that they are in parallel, but maybe I'm wrong. Actually they shouldn't. If your wiring is in series how can the volume pots be in parallel? In any case this should be no problem for your high end.
Q4. I don't think it works as a broadbucker, because as far as I can follow, both tone controls are wired before the whole bunch. One should be placed inbetween the two pickups. Maybe my impression is wrong, but then it's due to my misinterpretation of the 5-way switch.
By the way: which pickup is placed first in your serial wiring? It should be the bridge pickup, otherwise the broadbucker won't produce any broadening. The broadbucker works only with two pickups in serial mode and with the one closer to the bridge hooked up first.
Q5. The fifth knob on a Rick is usually used for blending. In this case you could use it for dialing in the broadbucker inbetween cap (if that doesn't work already with your other tone control).
Last question: Has your Rick humbuckers or single coils?
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Post by borsanova on Jan 16, 2007 9:21:34 GMT -5
As I turned out before, the functions necessary for a broadbucker configuration can be assigned to three different switches for major flexibility. I've done this in the following wiring schematic, adding also a selector bypass for the serial mode (that is in serial mode the position of your pickup selector doesn't matter anymore, because both pickups will always be on).
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Post by borsanova on Jan 15, 2007 18:50:05 GMT -5
Hello everybody, ChrisK asked me to post a Broadbucker wiring in the possibly simplest manner. Here it is: I've also implemented Woodys idea to use a switch for throwing in the cap (There is no need to use an extra cap for this, since the cap on your tone control does the job as well). In this design one four-poles switch does it all for putting the guitar in its broadest configuration. For maximum switching flexibility this switch should however be divided into three mini toggles: The first two poles on the left for dual sound, the third pole for the broadbucker tone cap and the fourth and last pole on the right for serial mode (maybe using the free pole of this last toggle switch for a selector bypass). If you put the three switches close to each other, you can still switch them all together and go immediately to your hottest and brightest Broadbucker sound.
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Post by borsanova on Jan 14, 2007 11:16:21 GMT -5
Thanks for your kind comments and good luck for your rewiring projects. And let us know your impressions when you're done. Of course you can use a toggle switch too to achieve the same effect. But the advantage of my LP JP design is that you can dial in exactly as much of trebles you like. In series mode thus you can use both neck pots to dial in your neck pickup. If you put the volume pot to zero you'll get the bridge pickup alone, when put to 3 or 4 you'll get only maybe half of the neck pickups output added to the bridge and at ten you get the full super distortion. And when you put the tone pot to zero or 3 or 5 you'll get the already described broadbucker effect to different extent.
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Post by borsanova on Dec 20, 2006 10:13:34 GMT -5
... introducing the BROADBUCKER ... SLASH!
We all know the problem: Modern guitar players are asking for ever more power from their pickups, installing superbuckers, burstbuckers, motherbuckers and similar super distortion pickups, but they pay this race with dull muffled trebles. What can be done to resolve the contradiction? An original solution has been found by Slash from Guns N' Roses, who has installed a piezo in his bridge, with most appreciable results as we all know. But now there is a new, much easier and more natural way to preserve your trebles while playing your super distortion pickups: the BROADBUCKER™.
What is a Broadbucker? As the name says, the Broadbucker broadens the sound of your guitar. It gives you full power bass and middle frequencies like from a super distortion pickup and at the same time it preserves stingy trebles as if you were playing a single coil.
Never seen one for sale? In fact, the Broadbucker has not yet been built, at least by big companies. And maybe it will never go into production, because a broadbucker actually consists of two standard humbuckers wired in series in a particular wiring scheme. All you need to produce a broadbucker is rewiring a standard Les Paul configuration by putting both pickups in series, first in line the bridge and then the neck, and between them a simple tone control.
The configuration is as follows:
hot > volume control > bridge pickup > tone control > neck pickup > ground
When you put your tone control in this configuration to zero, you'll have indeed a Broadbucker.
With the tone control at ten you get a well-known super distortion sound, but what happens, if you put it to zero?
In this case the signal passes the bridge pickup regularly, but when it comes to the tone control it divides. The lower frequencies will continue passing through the neck pickup, but the higher frequencies will leave your guitar through the cap and go directly to the amp, without passing through the neck pickup. In fact it is like playing 1½ humbuckers in series, and this is why the Broadbucker conserves both benefits, of a super distortion pickup and a brilliant bridge pickup. The more brilliant your bridge pickup the more you will hear the difference and for this reason the effect will be even bigger when you wire up your bridge pickup in a dual sound (parallel) configuration instead of standard humbucker. In any case the result is a broadened sound with more power and distortion in the lower frequencies and brilliant trebles, that allows you to achieve those incredible Slash sounds even on a small Fender combo. Moreover the tone pot which works like a kind of treble booster gives you total control over the amount of trebles you want in your mix.
A wiring schematic for a Les Paul with a built-in broadbucker (contemplating the bridge pickup in both, standard humbucker and dual sound configuration) is in the "Jimmy Page with 42 sounds" thread in the schematics forum. Go and have a look and if you like it don't forget to vote!
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year and keep on rocking!
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Post by borsanova on Dec 17, 2006 21:45:04 GMT -5
Hello and one advice: You should have posted this in the Electronics and Wiring board.
As regards your question: Don't wire them in series because your sound would become very muddy. Wire them in parallel, that should do!
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Post by borsanova on Nov 11, 2006 20:35:22 GMT -5
In your drawing the south coil of both your pickups is always connected to the ground. This is ok for the bridge pickup, but not for the neck pickup, since you want to use it in phase reverse. When you put your neck pickup in phase reverse it will shortage and shut the guitar down.
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Post by borsanova on Nov 4, 2006 13:56:41 GMT -5
I don't understand all that you wrote, but that last thing is no good sign. It means that the pickup cover is hot and together with a defective amp this can become hazardous.
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