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Post by blademaster2 on May 31, 2016 16:35:30 GMT -5
All good points - the lead was quick and easy (and it never sees light of day now that it is inside the cavity). Iron or brass plate, cut to the same outline, would probably also work but requires more tools than I had available as a teen.
From the cavities I have seen (Les Pauls, SGs, Ibanez and similar), there is often a reasonably good distance between the cover and the pots/switches for this approach to work. I usually see less available volume to the sides of the electronics rather than above them, but I have perhaps not seen enough of them to have a good generalization. A Strat would be trickier for this, I agree.
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Post by blademaster2 on May 31, 2016 7:50:48 GMT -5
Ha - I like cyn1's BB suggestion.
My first guitar had a too-heavy neck and I ended up carving a mould out of wood with the same but smaller outline as the electronics cover plate, and pouring melted lead into it. The solid lead slab was then woodscrewed to the cover plate (it was thin enough to not contact the wiring) and it balanced the guitar perfectly. It was more work than the BBs, but introduced no risk of shorting out or damaging the electronics.
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Post by blademaster2 on May 30, 2016 10:05:09 GMT -5
With such sensitivity to humidity it does seem odd. My first thought was that the truss rod was perhaps too tight before the crack occurred and this stress cause the glue joint to fracture on an impact (properly done glue joints are usually stronger than the surrounding wood).
Was the truss rod loosened up before any of the regluing was done? It should have been totally backed off. If the glue filled the crack and cause a larger gap there, then I can see how it might cause the 1st fret buzz.
My instinct, assuming the glue job was strong enough to function correctly, is to get the correct profile using the truss rod, possibly replace the string nut (if the head is now too far back, this will need to be higher than the original however you did not see open string buzzing so maybe not) and then (preferably) replace the first fret with a higher one and then flat file the entire neck. If replacing the 1st fret is not desirable then maybe a simple flat file job on all of the fingerboard will bring it all in line.
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Post by blademaster2 on Feb 1, 2016 16:33:40 GMT -5
Minor update: I installed the heavier strings suggested by greekdude (11 gauge). Logic tells me that there must have been some difference in the deflection/deformation of the neck, but I cannot see it - the slight backbow is still there. I raised the action a little higher and it is playable, so my debate still resides in whether I want to make it play *really* well versus putting up with it as it is. After all, as unique as it sounds it is still a Teisco and is not worth a huge effort to make it play better except to serve as a learning exercise.
For now I will take the lazy route on this one, as I have a few other nicer guitars that need some fret dress attention.
Thanks again for all of your advice. I will update again if/when there is a next step for this axe.
New update from 2022: See my thread for the second part of the story from January 2022. I reprofiled the fretboard and refretted the neck and made a new bone nut. After a subsequent fret dress it now plays fabulously well, and looks as good as ever or better. I love this old guitar - again.
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Post by blademaster2 on Feb 1, 2016 16:27:56 GMT -5
I also agree with greekdude, of course. No instrumentation can show the differences that human hearing can distinguish. If I look at the waveform or spectral response of a piano compared to a guitar I could never point out the differences or even recognize which is which, and yet I can hear the difference any time.
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Post by blademaster2 on Jan 15, 2016 15:59:16 GMT -5
Despite not being renowned as a guitarist, I read that David Bowie elected to play guitar himself on his Diamond Dogs album to get a more raw style for the music (although I always loved Ronson's playing as well).
David's playing on Diamond Dogs remains some of my favourite guitar playing on any record for that reason, and very well suited to the dystopian mood of the album.
I felt like Bowie's death was the loss of an old, personal friend, and I miss him very much.
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Post by blademaster2 on Jan 11, 2016 10:00:07 GMT -5
It is tantalizing to consider removing the fretboard and re-planing/re-installing. As long as I do not mess it up I would enjoy the experience, and learn more about the process for fretboard removal - I have glued several fretboards already, so the removal is the scarier part for me. Acknowledging that this is not necessarily a financial move as far as its value is concerned, it would still be good to get my old friend back to being the best it can be. Also, this particular Teisco is a much nicer design and better made compared to other Teiscos I have seen (that company evidently loved variety), so as an instrument I think it can be respectable.
My debate now is whether to risk learning to remove the fretboard, or to take the easier path and only reshape the fretboard in-situ. Given the relatively small amount of backbow that it has, and its market value, I might try the latter first since I have successfully done a re-fret before. Either way I believe it needs new frets and a new string nut.
I still plan to try the heavier strings first, just to look at all options in sequence.
Thanks again to all of you for the expert opinions. I will post again when I have more news.
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Post by blademaster2 on Jan 8, 2016 11:40:38 GMT -5
No, I have not yet tried that. Thanks for reminding me, as I might do that next time I am near a music store and can pick up a set with 'suspension bridge cable' gauge.
The amount of clamping force I applied in the form was, in my estimation, much more than the strings would impart so it will surprise me if I could actually pull it into the desired relief that way. This old neck is a fairly hefty, three-piece construction using mahogany. It really seems to want to stay the way it is.
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Post by blademaster2 on Jan 7, 2016 22:56:14 GMT -5
Hello again,
Well, I took the neck out of the clamping form just now and it returned *immediately* to pretty much the same back-bow as before - and the truss rod nut loosened itself from the mild "snugness" as this happened (it then accepted another 1/3 turn to get it back to the same 'snugness' that it had before I took it out of the clamp).
Not good, but certainly no harm done and I am back where I started.
The best repair might be to remove the fretboard and replane the neck, then reglue it back on (or glue a subtle forward bow into it rather than replaning anything). However I do not think this is really worth it for a Teisco and for such a minor amount of backbow (I could even simply replace the string nut with a higher one, and live with the higher action).
Given that the frets are skinny and low - not to my preference - and that the backbow is reasonably minor, it might still be worth my effort to refret the neck and gently reshape the profile into a slight relief before installing the new frets. A new, higher string nut would be needed also, of course, to accommodate the higher frets.
Thanks again for all of the advice!
Any additional thoughts or comments will be appreciated.
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Post by blademaster2 on Jan 6, 2016 9:27:42 GMT -5
Many thanks once again,
@cyn1, I am still confused, but possibly because I am only familiar with the one-way truss design that I was taught by my luthier mentor many years ago. In my own home-built guitars, the truss rod is installed into a channel with a glued-in insert on top of it that is shaped so the rod will pull back on the neck when it is tightened, creating less relief (or a back-bow). As such it operates only under its tension, and its own stiffness to bending is negligible. Loosened all the way, as it has been for this clamping exercise, it can only alter the neck profile if tightened and then again only to pull back for less relief. I have expected that my Teisco neck operates the same way.
Nonetheless I have given the rod's nut some mild snugness now, as you have suggested, while the neck remains in the clamps with a pronounced forward-bow. My expectation (acknowledging that it differs from yours) is that when it comes out of the clamps the truss nut will again be loose due to the relaxation of the neck back from the clamped forward-bow profile. I will let you know what happens when I do this.
@greek, no, unfortunately the rod is not removable (unless I remove the fretboard and dig it out).
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Post by blademaster2 on Jan 5, 2016 15:37:29 GMT -5
Hi Cyn1,
No, I have not done anything with the truss rod nut - it remains loose. As a one-way adjustment rod, I am expecting to want it to remain loose until I have the neck (hopefully) with a slightly exaggerated forward bow that I can then adjust back to the desired relief using the truss adjustment nut.
Are you thinking differently?
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Post by blademaster2 on Jan 4, 2016 13:31:26 GMT -5
Well, here is an update on my Teisco MJ-2L neck:
I held the neck clamped in a gentle forward-bow for about three weeks, then took it out and observed that it immediately returned to the slight back-bow that I saw on it before. I have now tried forcing it into a slightly more pronounced forward-bow in the clamping form and will see what it does, but I am losing hope.
The next step might well be to re-fret the neck and give the fingerboard a re-shaping in the process. I have avoided this up to now, but beyond that I can only see more drastic measures (as already mentioned in earlier posts).
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Post by blademaster2 on Dec 9, 2015 9:50:22 GMT -5
Roger on the lubrication of the nut (I might try dry lubricant, like graphite).
The form is holding the neck with slightly more forward bow than I want in the end, in the hope that the residual plastic deformation will still require a slight truss adjustment (giving two-way adjustment, ideally).
I will post an update, probably in the New Year, when this next step is finished.
@greekdude, there is lots of thread left on the rod that is visible, so I think it will be good (if it runs out on the inside then I will add washers as needed)
Thanks to all for the valuable advice on this.
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Post by blademaster2 on Dec 8, 2015 11:01:10 GMT -5
The truss nut is loosened completely (I am glad I did not forget to do that).
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Post by blademaster2 on Dec 8, 2015 10:03:12 GMT -5
Thanks again to all.
Update: I currently have the neck clamped into a forward bow in a form that I made years ago for guitar construction. That keeps it straight and with an even, untwisted contour. I will leave it like that for several weeks more to see if the wood can undergo plastic deformation and then have a look when it comes out. *Hopefully* it will need a slight truss adjustment at that time to straighten out the residual bow to the desired contour and it will be good to go. Then I might decide to do (or not do) a re-fret and give it a new nut so I can enjoy even more the unique tones of this little instrument. Comparing it to a Les Paul, Stratocaster, ES-335, or my home made guitars I still get a unique, warm, chime-like tone from it and I enjoy using it in the odd recording.
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Post by blademaster2 on Nov 23, 2015 13:56:41 GMT -5
Wow, thank you all for your time on this and your valuable opinions.
I agree with Cyn1 - and I would never wrap the neck with moist towels anyway but I was considering what the added steam might do, but only on the fingerboard - but I will take another route. Also, the back-bow is fairly small - around 1mm across the length of the fingerboard.
I think that first I will try the added force suggested by the heavier strings (possibly I could clamp it in my neck form and achieve a similar result, faster). If that does not help then I would turn to a re-shaping and re-fret. The existing, original frets are old and fairly worn so it probably will benefit from this regardless of the back-bow. That will, of course, require a new nut ....
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Post by blademaster2 on Nov 19, 2015 14:09:54 GMT -5
Hello,
I have a 1967 Teisco MJ-2L that is in nice condition and sounds unique but with only one problem - a neck back-bow. It is very slight but bothersome. This guitar is fun, sounds quite good and has a great whammy bar design. I would enjoy it a lot more if I made it play well.
I have already tried to bring it forward by trying the following home-made neck press attempt: clamping it into a forward bow using nylon bands (with an already-loosened truss rod, of course) and running a hot but dry iron on a dry towel placed over the fretboard. This warmed up the fingerboard a little and was done in hopes of creating the necessary forward bow permanently. It possibly made some slight improvement but not enough.
So now I am considering taking the following more drastic steps, in order of preference/invasiveness:
1) Do the same with the hot iron but use a moistened towel so that steam is injected into the fingerboard, then quickly clamp the neck into a slight forward bow and wait until everything settles and cools. I am hoping this would reverse the bow and then could be fine-adjusted using the truss rod.
2) Perform a full fret job on it, correcting the slight back-bow by a combination of slightly reshaping the fingerboard and dressing the new, higher frets to further compensate. [This can only be done for very slight change over what is there and it may be insufficient.]
3) Remove the fingerboard (and probably the frets), re-glue it back onto the neck but clamp it using a wooden form to give it the slight forward-bow that I want (I have the same form with which I used this technique on my homemade guitars and it has worked, giving two-way adjustment). Then, of course, install and dress new frets.
Is there any advice out there from some experts?
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Post by blademaster2 on Sept 3, 2015 10:01:17 GMT -5
Thanks, and no argument there. I have never considered my love for the instrument to provide any way I could make a living from it, so the notion of it never crosses my mind.
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Post by blademaster2 on Aug 28, 2015 11:35:03 GMT -5
I know, it was supposed to *look* like a HH but inside those covers is a single-coil Fender pickup in the neck location and those two single-coil Fenders back-to-back under the cover at the bridge location. The tones it creates are more varied than my HH guitars (Epiphone double neck, Framus Nashville) or Stratocaster, being able to move between the two. Additionally, the 'fatness' control makes the bridge pickup sound thin and sweet even in humbucker setting.
*Recent changes*: I have in 2018 replaced the Fender Pickup that was in the neck location (it was from a 1980 Fender Lead II, if I recall correctly) with a Seymour Duncan SSL-1. The new pickup added a lot of crisp high frequencies that were missing from the original Lead II pickup. Ironically, now I find that I often turn the tone pot on the neck pickup down to less than half so that the ice-pick sound is avoided (these preferences come and go). I am finding that those extra highs are best reserved for a distorting amplifier to get that sizzley/wet tone, but it is too much treble and overwhelms the warmth of the walnut body response (tonewood deniers, please ignore this statement) that makes this guitar sound so pleasing to my ears when I am playing clean. All in all, I love the sound and the variety of this guitar even more now.
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Post by blademaster2 on Aug 27, 2015 21:28:55 GMT -5
Bolt-on maple/ebony neck, laminated mahogany body with thick maple block under the bridge. Custom wiring (tone control for neck pickup, "fatness" control for bridge pickup), Dimarzio Dual-Sound pickups. Made when I was in highschool, but I still play it more than 30 years later. Crisp but warm tone. Attachments:
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Post by blademaster2 on Aug 27, 2015 21:16:39 GMT -5
Thanks! Yes, it is my initials (RG). I came up with that as a logo when building my first guitar many years ago and I even use it to this day when initialing official/legal documents.
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Post by blademaster2 on Aug 27, 2015 21:12:31 GMT -5
Solid-chambered Walnut body, set neck. It is actually a SSS guitar with the bridge location housing two back-to-back Fender pickups in the same cover. They are switched using the 6-way switch, and the tone controls are unique (inductor with capacitor, giving "fatness" control). I still discover new sounds and settings from this thing after 25 years, and I play it more than any of my purchased guitars. Attachments:
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Post by blademaster2 on Aug 27, 2015 20:55:03 GMT -5
Built with set neck, unique electronics, and from solid birds-eye maple (weighs a lot, but really sounds good and plays wonderfully). Attachments:
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Post by blademaster2 on Aug 27, 2015 16:19:00 GMT -5
Please pardon me being late to this post (new to this site). I built my first electric guitar at age 17 using mostly hand tools and a powered hand-held jigsaw. I possibly spent more time than others due to my lack of jigs and other powered equipment, but the resulting guitar still works and plays well and I still love it. The only assistance I had was a family friend who cut the maple lumber for me into the rough sizes I needed to get started (I cut the head angle from that) and a local luthier who cut threads into the steel rod for my truss rod and cut the fret slots into the ebony blank fingerboard I had purchased (I immediately copied the fret spacing onto an aluminum ruler and used it for the next two guitars I built after that). I only used chisels, rasps, sanding blocks, and scrapers to get the shape and fit (it was a bolt-on neck for the custom body design I also made). I attached a photo of this same guitar (now more than 30 years old). It looks a little amateurish, and the subsequent guitars were much more polished, but this one is still very playable. Bottom Line: It *can* be done if you have the will to do it, even if like myself you have no money or experience. Attachments:
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Post by blademaster2 on Aug 26, 2015 16:22:35 GMT -5
Hi all,
I am new to this site so please bear with me if I am saying anything redundant.
I have built three guitars (solidbody electric) and for each neck I actually did clamp the fingerboard onto the neck during gluing using a form in front of the neck that placed a slight forward bow onto it as the glue set. After the glue dried fully it actually settled backward slightly, and then I used the truss rod to bring it back to the amount of relief I needed. It meant that the rod has a two-way adjustment. All three of these guitars are now more than 25 years old and they all play very well, so it seems to have worked for me.
Similarly, if a neck has warped backward I have heard that the heated press mentioned earlier will accomplish essentially the same thing that I did when building my necks and provide the desired two-way adjustment again.
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