hawt400a
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Post by hawt400a on Oct 20, 2022 12:42:07 GMT -5
In a tragic turn of events, my guitar slipped and two of the mini switch toggles were sheared off. The guitar originally had Carvin active pickups, but they were replaced with passive Tom Anderson H1's by a previous owner. The new pickups are great, but they are definitely not wired for everything they are capable of. While replacing the two broken switches, I'd like to go ahead and completely rewire the guitar to achieve as much sound variety as possible. My goal is to achieve the maxim capabilities of the pickups with the existing switch and pot mounting positions. No drilling! I'd like the pickups to each run through their own wiring - blower, volume, tone, coil split as much as possible before joining up to hit the output jack. I don't know how/if the phase affects this. I just don't like how the current wiring has the red from the neck pickup going to the Pickup Selector and the red from the bridge pickup going to the Phase Switch. If any of this is nonsense, let me know gently - I am not an electronics guy! The attached image shows the current wiring. While it looks like it's wired for two coil splitters and phase, I'm not even sure if it's correct since the sound in the various switch positions didn't seem to behave as expected. I have the following switch locations available: 4 pots that can be replaced with push/pull 2-position switches 3 Mini toggle switches that can be replaced with 2-position or 3-position switches 1 3-position Pickup Selector switch With its original pickups, the four pots were not the typical two volume / two tone. The four pots are matching 500k pots. In the new wiring, I would like to have the standard two volume / two tone setup so I know I'll have to add a cap to the 'new' tone pot. I want a blower switch for the bridge pickup, and I'd like to be able to blow the full humbucking pickup or a single coil straight to output so I'm thinking this will require a 3-position mini toggle. If the blower is wired after the coil split, would that mean it just needs a two-position switch? Or does one always have the blower switch first in order to send completely unchanged signal to output? Does it make sense to add a blower switch for the neck pickup? I read that 4-pole switches are better for this to avoid 'bleed'. I want to be able to split the coils on both pickups. Does it make sense to have a three-position switch to allow either one coil or the other to be turned off? Would there be a sound difference between one coil or the other? I want two two-position switches for parallel / series humbucker operation. One for the bridge and one for the neck. I want a phase switch. I'd like the phase switch to work on with the unsplit humbuckers or when both are split to single coils. Assuming the Pickup Selector stays as-is, this would only work when both pickups are selected. I'm hoping to get input on my ideas for maximizing the sound capabilities and help with a schematic. Many thanks in advance!  |
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Post by newey on Oct 20, 2022 22:07:54 GMT -5
hawt400a-
Hello And Welcome to G-Nutz2!"Exalted shall be the first-time poster who bringeth forth diagram with cogent questions". Or so we say around here when we're waxing biblical. . . All of what you want should be do-able. I think this thread is going to get lengthy before we can get to a specific diagram, though-- your wish list is not insubstantial. Some fairly random suggestions, I don't know that I'll touch on all of the questions you have. You have holes for 3 mini-toggles and for push/pull pots, potentially up to 4 (you probably won't need all 4 to get what you want, but the capability is there). The Bridge blower you show is fine. You can certainly put one on the neck pickup if you wish, but most folks like it on the bridge, so that a flick of the switch puts one into a "solo setting" for lead work. The treble of the bridge pickup being wanted for leads, it tends to go onto the bridge pickup. But you definitely want that to be one of the toggles switches instead of a push/pull pot for ease of use while playing. Put the functions on the push/pulls that you would not be likely to change mid-song, as it's easier to flick a toggle switch. It occurs to me that it would be nice if the bridge blower switch overrode the bridge split-coil switch, so that you got the full HB with the blower engaged, regardless of whether the coil-split was engaged. But I'm not sure that's doable without more switch poles on the blower switch. We'd have to take a look at that. The phase switch would be one of the push/pulls, you probably won't use that as much as the coil-split switches or the blower switch. Since the switching on the bridge pickup is more involved with the blower, it seems like putting the phase switch on the neck pickup woul be an easier route. It would be wired right after the neck pickup, before any of the other switching. This will be like a separate module that can be slotted into pretty much any diagram. Diagrams to wire a phase switch abound, there is a basic one I posted a while back in the Modules section. Yes, ideally the blower switch should be "first in line" after the pickup, so as to bypass everything after it in the signal chain. Variations are possible, for example, some folks elect to just bypass the tone pot while leaving the volume pot "in circuit" even with the blower engaged, so the resistance of the tone pot is eliminated for a bit more "oomph" but with the ability to control the volume. Probably on 2 more push/pulls. Put the coil splits and the blower on the 3 toggles, IMO. It's a matter of what you want to do. The difference in sound may not be very dramatic. The difference, if any, will be more noticeable with higeher output "overwound" humbuckers. The ability to select either coil at the bridge would be more likely to provide a meaningful/useful difference in sound versus doing so at the neck, as the greater string excursion at the neck position will tend to minimize the differences coil-to-coil. You would want On-Off-On 3-position DPDT switches so that the center "off" position will give you the full HB setting, flip one way to selected the N coil, opposite to select the S coil. Since there is no such thing as a 3-position push/pull pot, if you go the 3-position switch route, these will necessarily have to occupy 2 of the 3 mini-toggle holes. Or do you? Where you currently show the coil-split switches in your diagram, these could be replaced with DPDT 3-position On-On-On switches, to give you series/parallel/single coil for each humbucker. Obviously, this would only give you one coil-split option instead of being able to split to either coil, but again, there may not be a whole lot of difference in those sounds.
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Post by sumgai on Oct 21, 2022 11:02:43 GMT -5
I want two two-position switches for parallel / series humbucker operation. One for the bridge and one for the neck. Or do you? Where you currently show the coil-split switches in your diagram, these could be replaced with DPDT 3-position On-On-On switches, to give you series/parallel/single coil for each humbucker. Obviously, this would only give you one coil-split option instead of being able to split to either coil, but again, there may not be a whole lot of difference in those sounds. Sounds to me like a perfect job for a pair of TripleShot pickup rings, like so:  Available all over the web, your favorite search engine shouldn't have any trouble finding them.  HTH sumgai |
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hawt400a
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Post by hawt400a on Oct 21, 2022 11:44:32 GMT -5
hawt400a-
Hello And Welcome to G-Nutz2!"Exalted shall be the first-time poster who bringeth forth diagram with cogent questions". Or so we say around here when we're waxing biblical. . . Many thanks for the warm welcome. I've been on a number of boards, including a number of moderator and super moderator positions. I try to be a good citizen! All of what you want should be do-able. I think this thread is going to get lengthy before we can get to a specific diagram, though-- your wish list is not insubstantial. I agree my list is substantial. I'm 3/4 collector and 1/4 player. Therefore, some of my questions are 'should I' as opposed to 'how do I'. I looked forward to the full color Carvin catalogs every month when I was younger. True guitar porn! I currently have four Carvin electrics, including a double neck, two acoustics, and an amp in my herd. I'll post details in the appropriate place! These guitars are of such superior design and engineering that they are well worth the effort to set them up properly. The Bridge blower you show is fine. You can certainly put one on the neck pickup if you wish, but most folks like it on the bridge, so that a flick of the switch puts one into a "solo setting" for lead work. The treble of the bridge pickup being wanted for leads, it tends to go onto the bridge pickup. But you definitely want that to be one of the toggles switches instead of a push/pull pot for ease of use while playing. Put the functions on the push/pulls that you would not be likely to change mid-song, as it's easier to flick a toggle switch. I agree that the blower switch is really a bridge pickup thing. Insisting on one for the neck would make me short one toggle switch position as two should go for the coil splits. Neck blower gone! It occurs to me that it would be nice if the bridge blower switch overrode the bridge split-coil switch, so that you got the full HB with the blower engaged, regardless of whether the coil-split was engaged. But I'm not sure that's doable without more switch poles on the blower switch. We'd have to take a look at that. If I owned a single coil guitar, such as a Stratocaster, I might want a blower switch, correct? Thus my desire to have the ability to blow one coil or both. I figure there are two options for this: 1 - Use a two-position blower switch after the Coil Splitting. 2 - Use a three-position switch allowing full humbucker or a single coil to be blown to output. Option 1 is probably better since my coil splitting desire includes the ability to select which coil is disabled. Option 2 would require the picking of which single coil to blow. Also, Option 2 includes redundant coil splitting. The phase switch would be one of the push/pulls, you probably won't use that as much as the coil-split switches or the blower switch. Since the switching on the bridge pickup is more involved with the blower, it seems like putting the phase switch on the neck pickup woul be an easier route. It would be wired right after the neck pickup, before any of the other switching. This will be like a separate module that can be slotted into pretty much any diagram. Diagrams to wire a phase switch abound, there is a basic one I posted a while back in the Modules section. Gotcha... So the bridge pickup could go to the Coil Split then Blower. And the neck pickup could go to the Phase the Coil Split. As I understand it, the Phase capability would be applicable to humbucker or single coil guitars. As such, would I need to ensure both pickups are split or not split in order to use the Phase? I'm thinking there may end up being a few invalid switch position combinations. Yes, ideally the blower switch should be "first in line" after the pickup, so as to bypass everything after it in the signal chain. Variations are possible, for example, some folks elect to just bypass the tone pot while leaving the volume pot "in circuit" even with the blower engaged, so the resistance of the tone pot is eliminated for a bit more "oomph" but with the ability to control the volume. Taking a purist stance, I think going straight from pickup to output as directly as possible is the way to go. Master volume max would have to be set at the amp, mixing board, etc. I think the only exception would be having the bridge pickup Coil Split before the Blower. Probably on 2 more push/pulls. Put the coil splits and the blower on the 3 toggles, IMO. It's a matter of what you want to do. The difference in sound may not be very dramatic. The difference, if any, will be more noticeable with higeher output "overwound" humbuckers. The ability to select either coil at the bridge would be more likely to provide a meaningful/useful difference in sound versus doing so at the neck, as the greater string excursion at the neck position will tend to minimize the differences coil-to-coil. You would want On-Off-On 3-position DPDT switches so that the center "off" position will give you the full HB setting, flip one way to selected the N coil, opposite to select the S coil. Since there is no such thing as a 3-position push/pull pot, if you go the 3-position switch route, these will necessarily have to occupy 2 of the 3 mini-toggle holes. Or do you? Where you currently show the coil-split switches in your diagram, these could be replaced with DPDT 3-position On-On-On switches, to give you series/parallel/single coil for each humbucker. Obviously, this would only give you one coil-split option instead of being able to split to either coil, but again, there may not be a whole lot of difference in those sounds. Since I have plenty of switch and push/pull positions available, I'd prefer not to combine functionality in a single switch with the on-on-on. With regard to the questionable difference between which coil to disable on the Coil Splits I'd almost like to do this just because it's possible! Based on this much-appreciated feedback, I think we're here: - The two original Coil Split toggle switches get replaced with three-position switches allowing North Coil / Full Humbucker / South Coil Selection
- The original Phase toggle switch remains a two-position switch used for the bridge pickup Blower Switch
- The volume pots get replaced with push/pull pots for Series/Parallel selection on the pickups
- One of the tone pots gets replaced with a push/pull pot for Phase selection
- One tone pot remains pot-only - available for other functionality if needed - I would probably purchase all four push-pulls even if the switch part of this one remains unused.
Wiring sequence: Bridge Pickup -> Coil Split -> Blower -> Volume -> Tone -> Output Neck Pickup -> Phase -> Coil Split -> Volume -> Tone -> Output Not sure where the Series/Parallel switches go in the sequence. When it comes to execution, I'll be looking for advice in what switches, pots, solder, iron, etc. to purchase. Are 4-pole switches better than 2-pole? An article I saw about Blower switches said something about less 'bleed'. The guitar's hardware is gold so that's preferred for the toggle switches. In the interest of function before form, black toggle switches could be acceptable. Definitely metal - no plastic! I have really nice knobs with abalone inlays on the current pots that should work on any standard new pots. I have a basic soldering iron and flux core solder. I have no problem replacing these to make sure I make the best connections possible. I expect to purchase some sort of arm mechanism to help hold things while soldering. Thanks for all the help so far! |
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hawt400a
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Post by hawt400a on Oct 21, 2022 11:55:13 GMT -5
Sounds to me like a perfect job for a pair of TripleShot pickup rings, like so: Those look awesome. However, I'm flush with switch locations on the DC400A. I have two other Carvin electrics that only pots and no switches so these may find use in those guitars... |
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Post by newey on Oct 21, 2022 19:10:19 GMT -5
I started taking a look at how this would be done, and I run into a roadblock (a mental one, anyway) with how to get your desired North/Both/South COil split switch to "play nice" with the series/parallel switch. And I find myself questioning what I said earlier about the phase switch placement. It occurs to me that, apart from cutting to either coil, 80% of what you want is the Jimmy Page mod, of which our long-time member JohnH has the definitive version: JH's Jimmy PageEven though it's not exactly what you want, giving it a bit of study may allow you to "see" how to wire many of the things you want, and how they fit together with one another. John has also paid close attention to hum-cancellation in his version of the JP wiring, many other versions don't. This is something we haven't touched upon yet but should be in the conversation re: the coil split switches. Also note how John has the phase switch swap the coil that is split so as to amximize hum cancellation. However, realize that with a switch to cut to either N or S coil, not all positions will be hum-cancelling when both HBs are split |
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Post by Yogi B on Oct 21, 2022 20:38:08 GMT -5
I started taking a look at how this would be done, and I run into a roadblock (a mental one, anyway) with how to get your desired North/Both/South Coil split switch to "play nice" with the series/parallel switch. The usual way is to have the coil select work in only one of either series or parallel modes — from what I've seen, almost always in series mode. Referring to UnklMickey's series/parallel switching options, if we look at the preferred option "d" we can see an unused switch terminal and we know that just won't do! From this previously unutilised terminal we can run a wire to the centre lug of a SPDT on/off/on, where one outer lug is connected to ground & the other to hot — thus alternately shunting one of the coils without interaction with the parallel switch position.
The alternative parallel version is more complex, requiring a DPDT on/on/on, (and isn't really any better from a 'purity' standpoint, as one coil will be left hanging from hot) which is probably the reason it is less common — however I'd argue it makes for better grouping: the series/parallel switch would always give higher output in the series setting, with the three lower output (parallel & the coil splits) being consigned to the parallel setting. A further disadvantage of splitting in parallel mode is that this would not be possible, at least not without using a 4PDT as a phase switch. Utilizing only a DPDT switch to do phase switching & automatic coil swaps requires that the unused coil be shorted (as in the series version), rather than disconnected (as in the parallel version). Edit: whilst the second sentence is still fundamentally true, there's actually no reason why the parallel version can't also shunt the unused coil, as in the below diagram.
A diagram will likely help (especially for the parallel case), that shall follow shortly... Edit: including for my own benefit, realising that in the parallel version the unused coil can be optionally either shunted or left hanging. Below shows the shunted version, for the hanging version just omit the connections from SW1 to the upper left & lower right terminals of SW2 (i.e. the connections from SW1 should only go to the centre terminals of SW2): |
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Post by newey on Oct 22, 2022 6:43:13 GMT -5
hawt400a- As usual, a tour-de-force from Yogi B and a good starting point. Note that, in the non-shunted version, he shows the dual coil-split switch as a SPDT On-Off-On switch, which is really all that's necessary. If you already have DPDT On-Off-On 3-way toggles, you can use those, you'll just be using only one-half of the switch. If you want the shunted version, you'll need On-On-On DPDT switches. That's what I couldn't wrap my head around, getting either coil with the coil-cut switch regardless of the position of the series/parallel switch. Apparently, as YogiB said, if you want to do this wiring, you'll have to live with the coil cut switch only operating in one mode of the series/parallel switch
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Post by cynical1 on Oct 22, 2022 8:00:37 GMT -5
That's what I couldn't wrap my head around, getting either coil with the coil-cut switch regardless of the position of the series/parallel switch. Apparently, as YogiB said, if you want to do this wiring, you'll have to live with the coil cut switch only operating in one mode of the series/parallel switch If I follow this correctly, here is what Asmith did for Project #2:  This gives me the humbucker in either series or parallel, allows me to choose north or south coil and does what it says on the box into the phase switch. Very predictable with no dead zones regardless of switch position. There's a bridge on switch added back in, not in this drawing, that also functions without a bump. If I got this wrong, please ignore accordingly... HTC1 |
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Post by asmith on Oct 29, 2022 6:09:11 GMT -5
If I got this wrong, please ignore accordingly... Not wrong at all; I think this is what Hawt is looking for to achieve a series/parallel switch that's functionally independent of the coil-selector switch. (Can I still ignore you accordingly though? 😁) |
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Post by cynical1 on Oct 29, 2022 8:46:50 GMT -5
(Can I still ignore you accordingly though? 😁) Sure, but there is a queue... |
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