HSH with individual on/off and coil split

[endo]

Hi to all the experts,
The subject line almost says it all: I am thinking about building an HSH guitar with 3 individual on/off switches for the pups and a push/push switch for the coil split. Is this doable? I found some similar wirings, but I don't feel competent enough to tinker with them. 

[newey]

endo-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

Jan 6, 2023 5:36:13 GMT -5 endo said:

Is this doable? I found some similar wirings, but I don't feel competent enough to tinker with them. 

Yes, it is definitely doable. A couple of questions:

-What are you going to have for V and T controls? Master V and T or like a Strat?

-Do you want the push/pull to split both humbuckers at once?

-Re: hum-cancellation when the HBs are split. You could have it set up so that both HBs split to the coil opposite of the single coil middle pickup, making N + M and B + M humcancelling, but N + B will not be (without some fancier switching). Or, you can have the N + B be hum-cancelling, but then either the N + M or B + M will not be hum-cancelling. IOW, you can pick any 2 combinations of 2 pickups to be hum-cancelling but the third combination will not be. With this in mind, consider what combos you will use most frequently, you would probably want those combos to be the ones that are hum-cancelling when you are in split-coil mode.

[endo]

Sorry, I should have added the missing details in the original post. Indeed there will be master volume and tone, and the coil split should work for both humbuckers at once (unless that is a stupid idea). I didn't think of the hum-cancellation problem (that's one reason why I'm here). I very rarely use split B and M, so I would be ok with this combination not being hum-free. On the other hand, you mentioned "fancier switching" to have all combinations hum-cancelling. How fancy would that be? Thank you already for pointing out the things I didn't consider.

[newey]

Jan 6, 2023 13:34:46 GMT -5 endo said:

you mentioned "fancier switching"

The idea here would be that you would have to be able to switch which coil was being split for one of the 2 HBs. This would not be doable with just a push/pull pot, you would need a 3-position switch like an On-Off-On toggle switch. And, you'd still have to manually switch to the other coil. If you wanted the coils to be swapped automatically when the N + M was selected, say, versus the B + N, then you'd need more complicated pickup switching and a 4-pole switch for the coil splitting (which would then also not be a push/pull.

Having one setting that is not hum-cancelling isn't that big a deal, and, as you say, if you don't use the B + M much (when split), then we should plan for that as it simplifies things significantly. Master V and T also simplifies your pickup switching. So,we have a plan coming together here.

Only other issue is what type of switches you will use for the pickup switching. Single pole switches could be used, but some folks think disconnecting both pickup leads is preferable than just switching the "hot" lead in/out, leaving the ground connected. To me, it's a non-issue, but double-pole switches aren't much more expensive than single-pole ones, and would allow the pickups to be totally disconnected.

I'm assuming 3 toggle switches, unless you have some other type in mind. Have you already purchased the switches?

[newey]

Jan 6, 2023 13:34:46 GMT -5 endo said:

you mentioned "fancier switching"

The idea here would be that you would have to be able to switch which coil was being split for one of the 2 HBs. This would not be doable with just a push/pull pot, you would need a 3-position switch like an On-Off-On toggle switch. And, you'd still have to manually switch to the other coil. If you wanted the coils to be swapped automatically when the N + M was selected, say, versus the B + N, then you'd need more complicated pickup switching and a 4-pole switch for the coil splitting (which would then also not be a push/pull.

Having one setting that is not hum-cancelling isn't that big a deal, and, as you say, if you don't use the B + M much (when split), then we should plan for that as it simplifies things significantly. Master V and T also simplifies your pickup switching. So,we have a plan coming together here.

Only other issue is what type of switches you will use for the pickup switching. Single pole switches could be used, but some folks think disconnecting both pickup leads is preferable than just switching the "hot" lead in/out, leaving the ground connected. To me, it's a non-issue, but double-pole switches aren't much more expensive than single-pole ones, and would allow the pickups to be totally disconnected.

I'm assuming 3 toggle switches, unless you have some other type in mind. Have you already purchased the switches?

[endo]

I haven't bought anything yet, but I thought of these:

Mini Toggle Switch ON-ON DPDT

And I'm totally sympathetic to the idea of keeping the wiring as simple as possible.

[endo]

If you told me whether the switches in my last post are the ones you would recommend, I could order them. Thank you.

[newey]

Those switches would work fine. Pretty pricey, though.

Electronic bits purchased from guitar websites or guitar suppliers (like Schaller) tend to be much more expensive than the same items purchased from electronics suppliers. You may want to shop around a bit.

[MattB]

Sites that sell parts for pedals and/or amps are often cheaper than guitar specific sites.

Musikding has some cheaper options:

www.musikding.de/Standard-Kippschalter

[endo]

I found those too, but it seems they don‘t have black ones.

[endo]

Could you please recommend appropriate pots, or rather the resistance values and logarithmic /linear characteristic. I‘d like to order the parts next week.

[endo]

I ordered the switches mentioned above, a 500k logarithmic push/push pot and a regular 500k logarithmic pot. Now I would be extremely grateful if you could post a wiring diagram I could use to put everything together.

[ashcatlt]

The on/off part only needs one pole, but if we use a DPDT switch, we can use the other pole to determine which coil one of the HB splits to. I figure use the middle switch for this. It seems like you're more likely to use B+N or N+M, but B+M more rarely. So we'd wire it so that the N always splits to humcancel with M. When the M is off, the B splits to humcancel with N, but when the M is on, the B splits to the other coil. When all three are on, you can only have partial humcancelling no matter what anyway. I'm sure it works, and I think it makes some sense. (??)

[endo]

Sounds very reasonable and convincing, but (to me) also a bit confusing. Without a wiring diagram I‘m lost.

[newey]

OK, this should work but let's get another set of eyes on this before you start wiring it. Note that the push/pull coil split switch is shown as detached from the pot, you could put it either in the V or T spot. I showed the switch as being disambiguated from the pot for clarity, but my diagram is kind of hard to read anyway, I should have moved things around a bit. If you need me to redraw it, let me know. (And, ask questions if anything is unclear.)

Also note that I show all the grounding to the backs of the pots, but using a "star grounding" scheme will avoid having to solder to the backs of tyhe pots. It's up to you which way you go with the grounding, if you want to do star-grounding there are instructions hereabouts.

I used Seymour DUncan wire colors for the humbuckers, the middle pickup colors are just arbitrary. You may need to translate the wire colors depending on what pickups you are using. As shown, the HBs split to opposite coils for hum-cancelling as we have discussed above, but which combos are in fact humcancelling with the middle pickup will depend on the pickups you are using. The N + B setting will be hum-cancelling, however, and either N + M or B + M will also , but which one it is will depend on the polarity of the middle pickup. If you want to be sure to get a particular middle pickup combo to be hum-cancelling, we'll need more info about the pickups. Switching the coils selected is simply a matter of swapping the "hot" and "ground" connections from the Push/pull switch, i.e., swapping the orange and black wires right to left.

Also, the pickup on/off switches are shown as DPDT switches, I assume you bought the ones you linked to. Since you have the extra poles, I showed the pickups being completely disconnected when "off" which probably isn't really necessary. but some folks think it might make a difference to do so versus just disconnecting the "hot" wire.

[endo]

Thanks a lot for your help so far. The pickups are an HSH set of DiMarzio IBZ I took from my Ibanez S4170AB Prestige.

[ashcatlt]

This is probably even more difficult to follow than newey's, but I'm pretty sure it does the automatic coil switching that I was talking about. I went with the SD colors for the HBs (though I don't know or care which is inner or outer or slug or screw, and if that stuff matters, it might need some restacking), but decided to color the SC wires to indicate which of the HB coils they match. Since that can go one of two ways, and it kind of matters, I went and provided both diagrams.

In both cases, the M always cancels with the N. The B cancels with the N unless the M is on, then it cancels with the M instead.

I've omitted the V and T and jack. I don't actually advise connecting wires "in mid air" like I've drawn them. You can choose any convenient lug to make those connections. The series link for the HBs, for example, can happen at the split switch, I just didn't feel like drawing two lines for each. The direction of the switches is probably weird. Toggles can of course just be rotated in the pickguard when you install it, but for the P/P, you'll want to think about which way is actually supposed to be up.



I personally feel like darn near every guitar in the world switches pickups just by connecting or disconnecting the top of the coil, leaving the ground ends always connected, so don't see a good point in trying any harder than necessary. If you really want to use those unused lugs, you certainly can disconnect the bottom of the HBs also, but the SC would need another pole since I hijacked the one for the coil selection.

Hope it helps.

[MattB]

Jan 21, 2023 17:19:33 GMT -5 ashcatlt said:

This is probably even more difficult to follow than newey's, but I'm pretty sure it does the automatic coil switching that I was talking about.

I got a bit lost trying to figure out the switch directions, so I drew up a quick schematic. Don't know if this is much clearer, but it helped me understand.

[endo]

Thank you all for your suggestions and solutions. The diagram I feel most comfortable with in regards to my soldering capabilities is newey‘s solution, because I can imagine what it is supposed to look like.