asdaven
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Post by asdaven on Feb 6, 2023 8:29:51 GMT -5
Trying to figure out how to wire up a push-pull pot to give me the option to put two P90s in series in the middle position and parallel in normal mode? These are humbucker sized P90s so not as dark as real P90s and they are basically single coils. The guitar is a Les Paul style guitar with a short Switchcraft 3 way toggle and 2 volume and 2 tone pots. Two humbucker sized P90s of course.
Looking how a 3 way toggle is wired up. Im thinking the easiest way to do this is have the push pull/series connection bypass the toggle switch. So when the push-pull is pulled up, the toggle switch is bypassed and the two pickups are in series in any postion on the switch since it is bypassed. I wouldnt mind this at all. Then the push pull down would be normal function.
Would anybody be able to show me what this would look like as far as wiring? I got the basic concept in my head but cant figure out how to wire it.
Thanks-
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Post by reTrEaD on Feb 6, 2023 8:55:28 GMT -5
These are humbucker sized P90s If those are Seymour Duncan Phat Cats, putting them in series is not an option. However, if your pickups have two wires that connect to the coil where neither is grounded, you can wire a DPDT switch such that in one position it over-rides the pickup selector to give you a series connection. guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/8215/global-series-switch-guitarnutz-proper |
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asdaven
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Post by asdaven on Feb 6, 2023 10:36:36 GMT -5
They are not. How would this look wired in on a push pull?
These pickups have three wires...positive, negative and shield (which goes to the baseplate).
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Post by newey on Feb 6, 2023 12:34:00 GMT -5
How would this look wired in on a push pull? See David Mitchell's diagram at reply #5 in the above link. That diagram correctly implements reTrEaD 's schematic, the only kicker is that the diagram does not designate which way is up or down on the push/pull. His pot and switch are stylized to a certain extent, and also P/P switches sometimes differ in their layout. His diagram is drawn as if you were holding the pot upside down (since this is the way one would solder it). Wire it according to his diagram and the series position will be when pulled up. |
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asdaven
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Post by asdaven on Feb 6, 2023 14:05:49 GMT -5
How would this look wired in on a push pull? See David Mitchell's diagram at reply #5 in the above link. That diagram correctly implements reTrEaD 's schematic, the only kicker is that the diagram does not designate which way is up or down on the push/pull. His pot and switch are stylized to a certain extent, and also P/P switches sometimes differ in their layout. His diagram is drawn as if you were holding the pot upside down (since this is the way one would solder it). Wire it according to his diagram and the series position will be when pulled up. And that allows normal 3 way function when the push pull pot is down? |
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Post by newey on Feb 6, 2023 15:25:55 GMT -5
Yes, the three way is bypassed when the Push/pull is up, active when it's down.
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asdaven
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Post by asdaven on Feb 6, 2023 18:40:19 GMT -5
Yes, the three way is bypassed when the Push/pull is up, active when it's down. Looking at this again, is it possible to do it with two volume pots? One of them being the push-pull. Or do I have to goto a master volume for this to work? Thanks- |
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Post by newey on Feb 6, 2023 21:52:12 GMT -5
Looking at this again, is it possible to do it with two volume pots? One of them being the push-pull. Or do I have to goto a master volume for this to work? Sure, you can have your 2 volume pots. The push/pull wiring has nothing to do with the pot wiring. Your master tone with the 2 volume pots in front of it is a bit wonky to my thinking, but the guitar, you said, is wired that way already, so if you've lived with that up until now, "you do you", as the kids say nowadays. . . I don't know that it really matters whether the V pot for each pickup goes before or after the series/parallel switch as far as the order of components is concerned. I'm visualizing pickup>>>>Series/parallel switch>>>>V Pot>>>>>3-way>>>M Tone>>>>output jack. Someone will no doubt correct me if I've gone astray on this. |
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asdaven
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Post by asdaven on Feb 7, 2023 8:14:03 GMT -5
I would be using 2 volume pots and 2 tone pots as with a normal Les Paul setup. Not 1 tone pot.
Just trying to figure out how to adapt that drawing to accommodate the two volume pots. The Gibson toggle switches are different than Fender's switches. Normal the red wire in that diagram goes straight to the jack and the two wires coming off the push pull normally goto the two volume pots. A Fender 3way or 5way, the pickups wires go into the switch and then a wire goes to the volume pot. Here the pickup wires dont goto the switch at all and instead goto the volume pot then you have the switch.
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Post by newey on Feb 7, 2023 12:37:31 GMT -5
I would be using 2 volume pots and 2 tone pots as with a normal Les Paul setup. Not 1 tone pot. Sorry, my mistake. Not quite sure I follow you there, no one's talking about a Fender switch, the diagram shows a Gibson-style toggle (yes, it's a bit stylized, but the terminals are the same). As for the pots, they will get wired just like on any LP-type guitar, right after the pickups. The "hot" wire from each V pot (the wiper) goes to the series/parallel switch, and the rest is per the diagram. |
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asdaven
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Post by asdaven on Feb 7, 2023 13:07:58 GMT -5
The Gibson style switch normally wires to the jack on the other end. On Fender Style switches, which im more familiar with, the Jack is wired to the wiper of the Volume pot like in the diagram we are talking about with the one volume.
So pickup wire goes into the outer lug of volume pot then wire from the center lug of the volume pot to the push pull switch, then to the switch and that red wire coming from the switch wires to the jack?
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Post by newey on Feb 8, 2023 6:16:52 GMT -5
So pickup wire goes into the outer lug of volume pot then wire from the center lug of the volume pot to the push pull switch, then to the switch and that red wire coming from the switch wires to the jack? Yes. Probably a good idea for you to draw that up in a new diagram so we can double-check things before you solder it up. Easier to see it than to talk about it. This is simply the difference between having a master volume versus individual volume controls. A volume control for one pickup necessarily has to be wired "across the pickup", before any inter-pickup switching. A master volume will always be wired "last in line" before the output jack (excepting for things like kill switches). The difference has nothing to do with Gibson versus Fender switches, it would be the same layout if you were using a rotary or other type of switch. |
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asdaven
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Post by asdaven on Feb 8, 2023 8:50:29 GMT -5
So pickup wire goes into the outer lug of volume pot then wire from the center lug of the volume pot to the push pull switch, then to the switch and that red wire coming from the switch wires to the jack? Yes. Probably a good idea for you to draw that up in a new diagram so we can double-check things before you solder it up. Easier to see it than to talk about it. This is simply the difference between having a master volume versus individual volume controls. A volume control for one pickup necessarily has to be wired "across the pickup", before any inter-pickup switching. A master volume will always be wired "last in line" before the output jack (excepting for things like kill switches). The difference has nothing to do with Gibson versus Fender switches, it would be the same layout if you were using a rotary or other type of switch. I gotcha so its different volume layouts. I dont know how to or if im able to post pictures on here as far as drawing up a new diagram. |
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Post by newey on Feb 8, 2023 12:53:03 GMT -5
asdaven: All members can upload images to their posts. However, the image must be first hosted somewhere, we do not have the capacity to have attachments to posts (without paying for the privilege through ProBoards) So, you can't just directly insert it from your PC or phone. When you reply to a post, the text box for your reply will show two buttons in the upper right. One is labeled "Postimage Upload" and the other is labeled "Cloudinary Upload". You can use either one to insert images into your posts. Both buttons then take you to their respective websites (i.e., "postimage.org" and "cloudinary.com") and both then walk you through the process to insert your images. The only real differences are that Postimage can be used without needing to create an account, whereas Cloudinary requires you to set up an account (which is free). Postimage only allows for image files, whereas CLoudinary allows for other types of files as well such as sound clips to be inserted. Also, by setting up an account, you can access all your images in the cloud there.
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Post by David Mitchell on Feb 8, 2023 14:30:19 GMT -5
See David Mitchell's diagram at reply #5 in the above link. That diagram correctly implements reTrEaD 's schematic, the only kicker is that the diagram does not designate which way is up or down on the push/pull. His pot and switch are stylized to a certain extent, and also P/P switches sometimes differ in their layout. Hey! I know that guy!  Due to Life™, I haven't managed to follow through yet with that wiring scheme myself, but it's awesome that someone else might be able to use my work! Probably a good idea for you to draw that up in a new diagram so we can double-check things before you solder it up. Easier to see it than to talk about it. Since I created it with DIYLC, asdaven could start with my DIYLC file for a global series switch, if they'd like. I should note that I have since changed the pickup wire colors to match what I actually have, added ground wires, and added a global tone pot. But maybe it would make a useful starting point. |
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Post by stevewf on Feb 9, 2023 0:24:55 GMT -5
I would be using 2 volume pots and 2 tone pots as with a normal Les Paul setup. I'll raise your attention to a post I added recently about global series with separate volume pots (and separate tone pots): 3-way + Global Series switch the GuitarNutz (proper) way
There's care to be taken about where to ground one of the volume pots (and its accompanying tone pot). Following this, you can avoid two things when in global series mode: - Dead spots in the 3-way selector - That one volume pot turns down the whole guitar (rather than turning down only its corresponding pickup) |
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asdaven
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Post by asdaven on Feb 9, 2023 14:47:19 GMT -5
So would this design work better with one volume pot? Thinking about it more, I dont really use the two volume pots on my other Les Paul. I really only need 1 volume, 1 tone on most of my guitars. Could wire it up for 1 volume, two tones if that's possible. Then maybe use a no load pot and wire the non used pot for a blend knob in the combo position, which to me would work better than two volumes.
Or 1 Master Volume and 1 Master Tone then have a blend knob in place of the other volume and a Master Bass Cut in place of the other tone.
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Post by stevewf on Feb 9, 2023 23:01:20 GMT -5
So would this design work better with one volume pot? Thinking about it more, I dont really use the two volume pots on my other Les Paul. I really only need 1 volume, 1 tone on most of my guitars. "Better" is definitely up to the designer/player. You could certainly, I think, wire it with 1 Vol and one tone. Yes to 1 Vol, 2 Tones. The tone controls could go before the selector switch, and the volume after; one tone control might need care where it's "grounded" for when in series mode. What's the proposed function of the no-load pot? By mentioning blend pots, you might evoke some "think again" responses from the veterans here. Especially when in conjunction with a selector switch; the blend pot kinda serves the same function as a selector, but with the potential cost of adding electrical load. Because of that loading, I'd say it's probably best to choose either Volume+Selector or Blender and live with the inherent limitations of either (i.e. no smooth blending or no master volume, respectively... though dual volumes allows for smooth blending). There is a thread on this forum that talks about ungrounded blend controls, which gets around the "loading" problem. I've wired bass cuts in, but I really don't know what I'm doing there; like where not to put it in terms of wonky performance. Maybe other Nutz can illuminate. |
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asdaven
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Post by asdaven on Feb 10, 2023 7:32:58 GMT -5
So would this design work better with one volume pot? Thinking about it more, I dont really use the two volume pots on my other Les Paul. I really only need 1 volume, 1 tone on most of my guitars. "Better" is definitely up to the designer/player. You could certainly, I think, wire it with 1 Vol and one tone. Yes to 1 Vol, 2 Tones. The tone controls could go before the selector switch, and the volume after; one tone control might need care where it's "grounded" for when in series mode. What's the proposed function of the no-load pot? By mentioning blend pots, you might evoke some "think again" responses from the veterans here. Especially when in conjunction with a selector switch; the blend pot kinda serves the same function as a selector, but with the potential cost of adding electrical load. Because of that loading, I'd say it's probably best to choose either Volume+Selector or Blender and live with the inherent limitations of either (i.e. no smooth blending or no master volume, respectively... though dual volumes allows for smooth blending). There is a thread on this forum that talks about ungrounded blend controls, which gets around the "loading" problem. I've wired bass cuts in, but I really don't know what I'm doing there; like where not to put it in terms of wonky performance. Maybe other Nutz can illuminate. A no load pot would be for blending with the switch in the middle position...more neck or more bridge. Was thinking you wire on wire from the switch to the inner lug and the other to the outer. I would think this would be ungrounded. Bass cut is usually a .0022uf capacitor across the two lugs of a tone pot. But im unclear if a 1 meg pot is needed for this or if 500K will work? |
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