P-Rails Parallel/Series wiring

[asdaven]

I have a Strat style guitar im installing P-Rail style humbuckers in the neck and bridge position and a single coil in the center. These humbuckers are higher output than I want and ive heard they sound better in parallel over split. So is it possible to wire these to two push pull pots so normally they are in parallel and when the pot is pulled up they are in series with themselves (series neck and bridge humbuckers NOT bridge in series with neck)? I know how to wire a humbucker to a push pull to go into parallel from series. But how would you wire this for the opposite effect? With a seperate push pull for the neck and bridge. They both have the 4 wires like normal humbuckers.

Thanks-

[newey]

Feb 6, 2023 11:53:28 GMT -5 asdaven said:

But how would you wire this for the opposite effect?

The wiring on each series/parallel switch will just be mirror-imaged vertically, such that what's connected to the lower lugs is connected to the upper lugs, and vice versa, on each pole (i.e., each side) of the push/pull switch. This will reverse the switching such that "up" is series, down is parallel.

[asdaven]

Im using the newer CTS push pulls that dont have the stardard up/down form.

I also have a left over 10 way Freeway Switch 5B1 setup for a 3 single coil setup I might use. Would I be able to use this to get different combinations between the pickups as if it were a 3 single coil setup but the humbuckers dictated series or parallel by the two push pulls going into that switch?

[newey]

Feb 6, 2023 12:25:51 GMT -5 asdaven said:

Would I be able to use this to get different combinations between the pickups as if it were a 3 single coil setup but the humbuckers dictated series or parallel by the two push pulls going into that switch?

This we'd have to take a look at. There are different types of Freeway switches, not sure what a "5B1" is or what the pinout is.

If your push/pull is one of those newer CTS ones, we have a translation around here somewhere, but the switch itself really shows what the lug translation is

[newey]

Found it. This should help:

[asdaven]

Feb 6, 2023 12:38:52 GMT -5 newey said:

Feb 6, 2023 12:25:51 GMT -5 asdaven said:

Would I be able to use this to get different combinations between the pickups as if it were a 3 single coil setup but the humbuckers dictated series or parallel by the two push pulls going into that switch?

This we'd have to take a look at. There are different types of Freeway switches, not sure what a "5B1" is or what the pinout is.

If your push/pull is one of those newer CTS ones, we have a translation around here somewhere, but the switch itself really shows what the lug translation is

I meant the 5B5-01 Freeway Switch.

[asdaven]

So this freeway switch is pretty much locked in on what it can do. Normal 5 Strat single coil functions on first bank. Then N+M, N+B and B+M series combos on the second, along with all 3 pickups in parallel, and neck and bridge in parallel. It requires a hot and ground for the neck and bridge pickups and just a hot for the middle.

In this case im thinking of reversing the middle and neck pickup wires to get neck and bridge on the 1st bank to make it more like a 2 humbucker guitar with an added middle pickup (humbuckers are in the neck and bridge). Each P rail has a 4 wire lead.

So if I were to use two push pulls wiring them in parallel down and series up, wouldnt I just be able to modify the signal going into the freeway switch from the neck and bridge whether parallel or series?

[stevewf]

About the Freeway 5B5-01, here's a quick link to earlier findings: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/post/101823/thread

I'd say that yes, the Freeway blade switches have their groove, with only a little room for variance. Some of the variations are on their web page (www.freewayswitch.com/schematics-blade).

I'd add that it looks like the Freeway blades already define the serial/parallel relationships, as well as the phase relationships between coils, unless there's some creativity beyond my grasp applied. Like, the "OP" (output) pads get connected to two/three coils in some positions; this pretty much spells out "parallel". In other positions, for example, MH gets connected to NG (middle hot and neck ground), pretty much ruling out any parallel relationship (except out of phase, maybe, with a dose of that creativity; haven't looked).

Maybe the illustrations in that link above can help with exploring.

[asdaven]

I know that its pretty much locked in to what it can do but im saying what if I add two external push pull pots to do series/parallel with the humbuckers going into it. And then the freeway switch will do its own thing.

[newey]

Feb 6, 2023 18:38:51 GMT -5 asdaven said:

what if I add two external push pull pots to do series/parallel with the humbuckers going into it.

Off the rip, I'd guess that would work, your series/parallel switches for each pickup will sit between that pickup and the Freeway switch., then you could use any of the variations of wiring on their website, as stevewf suggested. Only caveat that I have is that if there's going to be coil-splitting via the Freeway, that may throw a wrench into things, we'd have to look at a specific scheme.

[asdaven]

Feb 6, 2023 19:15:23 GMT -5 newey said:

Feb 6, 2023 18:38:51 GMT -5 asdaven said:

what if I add two external push pull pots to do series/parallel with the humbuckers going into it.

Off the rip, I'd guess that would work, your series/parallel switches for each pickup will sit between that pickup and the Freeway switch., then you could use any of the variations of wiring on their website, as stevewf suggested. Only caveat that I have is that if there's going to be coil-splitting via the Freeway, that may throw a wrench into things, we'd have to look at a specific scheme.

I wouldnt wire it up to split like in their HSS scheme since I got parallel/series on the push-pulls. I would run the two push/pulls and then wire the switch up like one of the SSS schemes even though the bridge and neck are humbuckers.

[newey]

Feb 6, 2023 21:54:14 GMT -5 asdaven said:

then wire the switch up like one of the SSS schemes even though the bridge and neck are humbuckers.

So, what are the Freeway positions going to be? We'll probably need to work out a drawing to be sure all the elemnets play nice with each other.

[asdaven]

Feb 6, 2023 23:31:48 GMT -5 newey said:

Feb 6, 2023 21:54:14 GMT -5 asdaven said:

then wire the switch up like one of the SSS schemes even though the bridge and neck are humbuckers.

So, what are the Freeway positions going to be? We'll probably need to work out a drawing to be sure all the elemnets play nice with each other.

So push pull tone pots that moderate parallel and series on the humbuckers with parallel down. One push pull tone pot is going to be master tone and the other just a dummy pot to fill the hole but retain the push pull function for parallel/series on the bridge pickup.

I also want to swap around the middle and neck to get neck+bridge on bank 1.

So, its going to be:
Bank 1 (all parallel combos, bridge and neck parallel or series humbuckers dependant on push-pulls):
1. Bridge
2. Bridge+Neck
3.Neck
4.Middle+Neck
5. Middle

Bank 2 (ditto about humbuckers, dependant on push-pull positions).
6. Bridge X Neck (Series combo)
7. Bridge+Middle+Neck (all parallel combo)
8. Bridge X Middle (series combo)
9. Bridge+Middle (Parallel combo)
10. Neck X Middle (Series combo)


Now this is why id probably want them in parallel most of the time because two in series humbuckers put into series will probably get muddy. But put two parallel humbuckers into series, it might sound good. Then I want the ability with the push pull to put the humbuckers into series when they are on their own. I also have a center single coil I dont want to drown out.

[asdaven]

So im thinking just reversing the series/parallel push pull wiring to be in parallel down. Also swapping neck and middle on the switch to get a different order. The switch needs an hot and a ground in the neck and bridge. Since im swapping the neck and middle, the middle pickup is a simple positive and negative so thats there. The bridge ill just wire the push pull for parallel down and you get a output wire off of that and what would be a ground wire. So run those to the switch from the push pull for the bridge hot and ground . Then the neck, wire up the push pull again for parallel down, then run the hot to the switch from the push pull then the ground to ground for that.

[asdaven]

Wired it up this way...reverse push pull wiring and wiring the ground and hots off the push pull to the Freeway Switch. Everything seems to read correctly on the meter coming off the center lug of the volume pot. If I got time ill bundle it up tonight and take it for a test drive.

The readings for parallel on the humbuckers start to get kindve thin resistance wise. Dont know what that equates to in sound. I read P rails sound better in parallel than split. The neck is only 9K in series so its a pretty low resistance reading in parallel. But the string energy is higher at the neck. The bridge is a 15K humbucker and its down to like 3.5K in parallel.

But in parallel it might not be quarter the resistance because you can read both parallel circuits at the same time so maybe its only half of what it actually is .

[newey]

DC resistance is only one piece of the equation, it really doesn't tell you much about how it will sound. Since you've already wired it, I'd button it back up and try it out

[asdaven]

Good news!. It works. These arent P Rails by the way. They are Artec Hot Rail style pickups. Im impressed for such cheap pickups.

Got a 9K in the Neck and 14-15K in the bridge. Wired in parallel for down on the push pull and series for up. Then have the Freeway Switch to get some series combos and additional combos. Can really get alot of different sounds out of this guitar.

Wired in parallel, these pickups sound really really good. More clarity than when in series. Series combos on the 2nd bank of the Freeway switch work best with the humbuckers in parallel and not in series where doubled up series can get kindve muddy. For these reasons, I see myself running these in parallel most of the time and this is why I wired the push pulls for parallel down and series up. Also I dont do a lot of high gain.

I didint try coil splitting these pickups but I didint attempt it because I read many places not to split these pickups and to do parallel instead. Probably because how small the coils are on these Strat pickup sized Humbucking pickups. Id reccomend the same to wire in parallel. The volume reduction is not much, similar to going from series to normal single coil on a Tele 4 way switch with series wiring. Pulling up to series then gives you a volume boost.

The parallel humbuckers practically have the output of a single coil Strat pickup if not a little more and fatter despite the readings being around 3K and 1.9K resistance. Then the two parallel humbuckers in parallel are only 1.3K BUT do not sound that low of output.

Generally I find parallel wiring to be more output than split humbuckers even though parallel always yields a lower resistance reading.