asdaven
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Post by asdaven on Mar 29, 2023 20:27:24 GMT -5
Thinking about running a variation of the traditional Esquire wiring. Normally its one pickup and a 3 way switch with the first position as volume with no tone pot, the second with volume and tone pot , and the third with a fixed .05uf capacitor creating an unusable tone. They used this to try to turn the guitar into a bass in the 1950s.
How about this:
Position 1: Pickup straight to output, both volume and tone bypassed
Position 2: Volume and Tone
Position 3: Volume with tone bypassed and A smaller fixed capacitor or resistor/cap combo instead. I know some mod turned this into a "cocked wah" sound. Im trying to more or less trying to emulate what would be a neck pickup and creating a "faux neck" position here rolling some high end off the bridge pickup but not turning it to mud. Any idea what capacitor or capacitor/resistor combo values would get me the closest to the ballpark of a neck pickup sound?
Thanks-
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Post by newey on Apr 1, 2023 0:03:45 GMT -5
I have an Esquire-style guitar wired pretty similar to what you want to do here, although at the moment that wiring has all been pulled out of the guitar as it awaits a pickup transplant and a 5-way switch.
The cap for position three was advertised by Fender as providing a "fixed bassy tone". This was not intended to make it sound like a bass, it was intended to make jazz players swap out their big Jazz Boxes for a solid bodioed guitar. At the time, jazz and C&W players were the only market, and they wanted one guitar to (in theory) cover both those markets. But it did sound lifeless and dull, and C&W guys just ignored that setting. Jazz players kept on buying big hollow bodies.
On mine, I used a .033µf cap which I thought made for a usable tone. I don't know that I would call it a neck-like sound though.
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Post by David Mitchell on Apr 3, 2023 8:41:07 GMT -5
Im trying to more or less trying to emulate what would be a neck pickup and creating a "faux neck" position here rolling some high end off the bridge pickup but not turning it to mud. Any idea what capacitor or capacitor/resistor combo values would get me the closest to the ballpark of a neck pickup sound? I can't make any suggestions from experience, but you might want to try an inductor: That's by antigua in "Tweak pickup resonant peak with a capacitor?" over at TDPRI. frets is the Queen of Varitones, and may also be able to advise you.... |
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Post by antigua on Apr 7, 2023 16:32:08 GMT -5
Position 3: Volume with tone bypassed and A smaller fixed capacitor or resistor/cap combo instead. I know some mod turned this into a "cocked wah" sound. Im trying to more or less trying to emulate what would be a neck pickup and creating a "faux neck" position here rolling some high end off the bridge pickup but not turning it to mud. Any idea what capacitor or capacitor/resistor combo values would get me the closest to the ballpark of a neck pickup sound? Yeah, a faux neck sound works pretty good, but you have to have a high Q, high inductor inductor. The Bill Lawrence Q Filter is probably the best bet, worth the money if they're still selling it for under $50. And then you basically wire it like a Veratone control, but with one fixed capacitor value instead of having a selection. The value of the inductor determines the depth of the scoop, I think, and that can be shaped / reduced with a resistor, and the frequency where the scoop occurs is determined by the cap. I'd play around with different R and C values with alligator clips until you like the fake neck pickup sound, and then solder it in. This is called an RLC network. The reason the neck pickup sounds the way it does is because the harmonics are notched out there due to the pickup's position along the length of the string. The RLC network / filter fakes the neck pickup sound by making a notch in the output signal, one that is comparable to what happens physically based on the relationship between the pickup position and the string's harmonic nodes. |
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Post by sumgai on Apr 8, 2023 1:31:12 GMT -5
.... the third with a fixed .05uf capacitor creating an unusable tone. They used this to try to turn the guitar into a bass in the 1950s. Errr, no. Leo introduced the Esquire in 1950 (after a little more than a year of prototyping). Consider his target audience, and before you answer that, remember that rock-n-roll hadn't been invented yet, and R 'n' B was still pretty far out on the fringe. Ergo, jazz and country players were the market, and in jazz, there was little room for screaming trebles of the ice-pick variety. (Country music however....) The cap-without-pot position was intended to attract hollow body players of the jazz flavor. Until of course, Jimmy Bryant came along.... but I digress. HTH sumgai |
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Post by reTrEaD on Apr 8, 2023 9:11:06 GMT -5
How about this: Position 1: Pickup straight to output, both volume and tone bypassed Position 2: Volume and Tone Position 3: Volume with tone bypassed and A smaller fixed capacitor or resistor/cap combo instead. I don't think you can get there with the Tele/Esquire selector switch. You only have two poles to work with. The Esquire has the Volume control enabled in all three positions. To properly bypass the Volume, the pole which is currently connected to the input of the volume control needs to be connected to the output jack instead. This means the Tone control must be hard-wired to the input of the volume control. In any position the Volume control is enabled, the Tone control will also be enabled. If one position has both controls bypassed and one position has both controls enabled, there are limited options for the third position:- Neither control enabled and some other network connected. This other network can be complex and some elements can be connected to ground. - Both controls enabled and some network in series with the output of the Volume control. (No elements of this network can be connected to ground.) - Both controls enabled and some network in series with the input of the Volume control. (No elements of this network can be connected to ground.) fwiw, here is a drawing of the Esquire circuit.  |
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asdaven
Meter Reader 1st Class
Posts: 67
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Post by asdaven on Apr 19, 2023 20:45:23 GMT -5
As far as a faux neck position. I know its not going to sound exactly like the neck and somebody brought up the idea of an inductor. But just wiring a cap to ground in the neck position or a resistor and cap, what value or values would mostly closely get to the sound of a neck pickup?
Wondering about a .0022uf or .0033uf cap or a .01 cap with a 33k resistor. Has anybody put these values up on a graph then compared to the neck pickup? Typically on a normal tele the neck is lower output than the bridge.
If I cant get a closer sound to a neck pickup this way, im just looking for some good values to make the neck position on the switch to make it a "rhythm position". Where by contrast, the bridge position with the tone control bypassed would be the "lead position".
Since a cap or a resistor and cap to ground is obviously taking a away from the output, then im basically trying to imitate a lower output neck pickup or basically a "rhythm setting "
Thanks-
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Post by sumgai on Apr 20, 2023 17:27:57 GMT -5
Typically on a normal tele the neck is lower output than the bridge. Typically, we call that condition "out of balance". The two pups should be equal in volume when switched into or out of the circuit - the ear should not suddenly strain to hear the Neck, nor should the ear suddenly cringe upon being exposed to the Bridge. (I exaggerate of course, but you get my meaning.) Of course, each instrument must meet the needs of the player, not adhere to some spec sheet. If you like and want the tone of one pickup being adjusted so it's to the strings compared to the other, and doing so causes a volume imbalance, then you've just run into the First Law of Guitaring - "It's all about the compromise!" There just ain't no escaping it, sorry to have to say. Might I suggest that you search this forum (use the menu choice above) for the words "balance" and "pickups". Don't used "balanced" or "balancing", that will limit the search quite a bit. Enter the two words in the box that says "with all the words", not in the one that says "Phrase". Leave everything else empty. Oh, and take along a sack lunch and your Towel, and perhaps a change of socks.... this place is overflowing with threads on the topic! HTH sumgai |
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asdaven
Meter Reader 1st Class
Posts: 67
Likes: 1
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Post by asdaven on Apr 21, 2023 7:24:20 GMT -5
Typically on a normal tele the neck is lower output than the bridge. Typically, we call that condition "out of balance". The two pups should be equal in volume when switched into or out of the circuit - the ear should not suddenly strain to hear the Neck, nor should the ear suddenly cringe upon being exposed to the Bridge. (I exaggerate of course, but you get my meaning.) Of course, each instrument must meet the needs of the player, not adhere to some spec sheet. If you like and want the tone of one pickup being adjusted so it's to the strings compared to the other, and doing so causes a volume imbalance, then you've just run into the First Law of Guitaring - "It's all about the compromise!" There just ain't no escaping it, sorry to have to say. Might I suggest that you search this forum (use the menu choice above) for the words "balance" and "pickups". Don't used "balanced" or "balancing", that will limit the search quite a bit. Enter the two words in the box that says "with all the words", not in the one that says "Phrase". Leave everything else empty. Oh, and take along a sack lunch and your Towel, and perhaps a change of socks.... this place is overflowing with threads on the topic! HTH sumgai Well usually the vintage telecasters were setup with the bridge considered a lead pickup and the neck a rhythm pickup. Some would lower the neck pickup to lower the output to use it as a rhythm setting. Im just trying to do this with a one pickup setup (Esquire) and a cap to ground or a resistor and cap to ground to create a rhythm setting. Just trying to figure out good values. |
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