HSH Wiring, please tell me if there's anything wrong

[leansteelbean]

Hi all! So I had this old strat lying around and for the past few months I have been slowly getting new parts and bringing it back to life. It's looking good and I am almost done, just need to get the pups and electric components next month! So here's where I ran into a problem. I have an idea of what I want but can't find a diagram close to it anywhere... My idea is HSH pups with a 5 way switch but each HB goes through an ON ON ON DPDT mini switch that changes between in series, coil split and parallel before getting to the main switch and then I also want a control to add one of the HBs to any position so I can have neck and bridge, and all 3 pups selected. I am not sure if I should get another mini switch for that or maybe the pickguard will looks less crowded if that was a Push pull.. Anyways so aside from that it's just the normal strat with 1 volume 2 tones

[newey]

leansteelbean-

First thing to do is make sure that you can fit 3 DPDT switches plus the 5-way into the cavity. Pretty sure that can be done, but you might need to use the dime-sized pots to buy yourself some extra real estate. If any wood carving is going to be needed, your project just went to a whole 'nother level.

EDIT: Ignore that, you said only 2 HBs so only two switches, that's no problem. I misread it.

Think of the wiring for this as being modular. The 3 2 On-On-On switches are each a module wired right after each humbucker. You'll have 2 wires exiting each switch, one going to the pickup's position on the 5-way switch, and the other to ground. The V and T pots are wired off the 2nd pole of the 5-way as per any regular Strat diagram.

The "Bridge on" (or "neck on") switch is another module, it will get wired between the On-On-On and the 5-way, switching that pickup from going to the 5-way to going straight to the output jack. Either a push/pull pot or a toggle can be used, space permitting.

In our "modules" section (under "schematics"), there are a number of diagrams for how to wire the On-On-Ons. I'll dig one up for you. Using that, you can then draw out a rough diagram yourself which we will check for you.

[newey]

OK, here's the On-On-On module for you. This assumes Seymour Duncan wire colors. If yours differ, you may need to transpose the colors. Our refernce section has wire color charts for most major pickup brands. Also, the On-On-On switch As I show it is the most common type, but there is a second type (from the orient, apparently) that has the internal switch connections the opposite way around for the center position. You may need to check yours with a meter if it is unclear from the packaging.

[leansteelbean]

Thank you! Okay, I think I got it... I attached the rough diagram that I drew. So I have V pot as 500KB and with a badly drawn treble bleed, the SC tone as 250KA with a .047 cap and a 470k carbon comp to knock the volume resistance to 250k when the single is selected, and the HB tone as 500KA with a .033 cap. I also drew a ground to bridge and ground to guitar shielding, is this all correct? I put in a SPDT switch as a visualizer for the add neck but as I was perusing around the threads, I saw a free add neck where you connect the neck pu to the tone pot and when it is at 10, the neck is on. I think that would be a better option since it doesn't need a new part, could that work? 

[newey]

Apr 27, 2023 14:06:02 GMT -5 leansteelbean said:

I also drew a ground to bridge and ground to guitar shielding, is this all correct?

Not unless the various pot shells are grounded to each other. Probably easier to run both those to the same point.

I saw a free add neck where you connect the neck pu to the tone pot and when it is at 10, the neck is on. I think that would be a better option since it doesn't need a new part, could that work?

Probably, but we'll have to take a closer look. As shown on your diagram, the single-pole switch for the "neck on" looks OK. But I can't make out the wiring of the tone pots with the cap and resistor stuff, would need a clearer drawing of that part. My concern is the tone pot wiring with the 2 tone pots and the "neck on" together.

The On-On-On switches look fine, assuming you translated your wire colors properly from the SD colors.

[leansteelbean]

newey, thank you for your help and replies. I finally had enough time to draw out my second attempt today. I got the pickups last week and I decided to go in a kind of different direction since the neck humbucker is a bit more than half the resistance of the bridge pup, and the inductance is also pretty much halved at 3.85H vs 7.65H, while the single coil stands at 2.82H. Maybe I'm talking out of my fanny right now, so to speak, but from what I understood, it would be better to leave the neck pup alone and have just one DPDT switch for the bridge, is that right? In theory, if the neck pup was split or in series, would it sound too weak in comparison? 


But onto the wiring diagram; Since the mini switch is right (I used blue instead of white just because that was the color I had on hand,) I didn't draw the different colors. The neck will only use 2 conductors, with the other two put together. I tried to make the free add neck but I'm not sure it would work, the idea is for the middle pot to be 500k and act for both of the humbuckers, with the free add neck, and then the second tone would be 250k for the single coil. I put .022 and .047 for the capacitors but I want to play around with some different values and pick the ones I like the most so those values are just placeholder for now. As for the treble bleed, I made it a 680pf cap and 22k resistor in parallel. I'm just not sure if I did the connections right so that tone 1 acts on Neck + Bridge and tone 2 acts on the middle. I was reading up on adding a resistor just under 500k so that the middle pickup would 'see' a 250k volume pot but I saw that it makes the tone kind of muddy so I'm gonna try it out without the resistor and see how I like it. 

Here's my draft:


I tried to make this one clearer but if there's anything that looks confusing I can draw it up again, thanks in advance! 

[unreg]

May 12, 2023 14:20:36 GMT -5 leansteelbean said:

Here's my draft:


I tried to make this one clearer but if there's anything that looks confusing I can draw it up again, thanks in advance! 

leansteelbean, you are soldering to the back of pots and, yes, that can work, but it can also possibly ruin said pots. A star ground could help your guitar to sound like it’s supposed to. newey suggested lots of objects could act as star ground, but I latched on to his star ground paperclip.

It’s excellent, just solder all ground wires to the paperclip, or any appropriate star ground, and then just make sure that your jack’s ground wire is soldered to your star ground.

Then that paperclip is grounded AND also all wires soldered to it will be grounded. A star ground eliminates your pots from experiencing those moments of high heat; and so their internals are deprived of the opportunity to melt/create-dissatisfactory-sounds. Obviously, around here, we like depriving potentiometers of enjoying hum.

[leansteelbean]

unreg, thank you for your reply. So I solder the groud wires to a paper clip and then connect that to the jack ground? Does that include the two tone caps? That does sound a lot better easier, last time I tried to solder onto a pot it was a struggle to say the least hahaha. 

[newey]

While a paperclip can work, I have usually used a washer to solder the grounds onto as a star-grounding point. I then screw the washer into the side of the control cavity so as to make contact with my shielding. The washer is then of course also soldered to the output jack sleeve. I used the paperclip on one project that had a lot of grounds, too many to solder to a washer; the paperclip was a "grounding buss". I then screwed the end into the cavity and taped over the connections to avoid anything shorting out.

Soldering onto the back of pots was easier when pots were mostly metal, but nowadays the insides are mostly plastic, so too much time with the soldering iron applied to the case can melt the insides. But there is nothing inherently wrong about soldering to the backs of pots, every guitar manufacturer in the world does so, at least as far as I am aware. But their manufacturing processes are set up to avoid melting pots.

If you were having difficulty getting solder to adhere to the pot cases (which then often results in one holding the iron on there too long), slightly roughen the pot case with a bit of sandpaper beforehand, and then a quick wipe-down with an alcohol swab to remove any oils from one's fingers that may be on the pot shell.

[leansteelbean]

I think I got what you mean, I'll make a new diagram to visualize it, thank you! Besides the ground, does everything look good? Does the diagram I drew connect everything the way I described? 

[newey]

As I said earlier, I can't quite make out the detail of the DPDT switch wiring from your diagram, so I can't tell you if that's right or not.

But there are other issues with your diagram. First off, the two poles of the 5-way switch need to be wired together or you will have no output As drawn, the side of the switch where all the pickups connect is not connected to the output.

Also, on the original "neck on" diagram, one tone pot is dedicated to the neck pickup only, and the other is for bridge and middle both (this is different than a standard strat arrangement, where the 2 tone pots are for the middle and neck pickups, with no tone on the bridge.) In your scheme, you are using the same pot for both the neck and bridge tone, and I don't think that will work properly with the "neck on" mod.

But that's just at first blush, there may be other issues, so let's get another set of eyes on it.

[unreg]

leansteelbean, sry for my delay response, but, you’re welcome; and yes, if you don’t ground the pot shells then they won’t be grounded and your tone caps won’t be grounded when attached to those shells so, ground each tone cap with a wire to your star ground. But, like newey says, if you sand the pot shell a little, it should accept solder nicely. For my guitar, I have my star ground paperclip attached to my control cavity’s painted wall with a screw, and each of my pots have one spot of solder; that’s a pot ground wire connected to my paperclip. And remember that a star ground isn’t grounded if it isn’t connected to your jack’s ground.

If you go the washer star ground route, don’t buy a Fender washer. I made that mistake. They don’t accept solder spots. I think a copper washer is the way to go if you want to do a star ground washer.


EDIT: The pot shells should be grounded already by their connection to the cavity-floor/body shielding; my guitar was made on a foreign assembly line, so I went ahead and grounded my pot shells; ground loops don’t exist inside guitar cavities. But that’s just me; newey doesn’t ground his pot shells with solder spots.

[leansteelbean]

newey, I hadn't even noticed there was a wire there! Okay, I added the wire and wrote which color the wires are for the DPDT. That's a shame about the add neck, could it work if I did it for the bridge and then connect both the neck and middle to the other tone? unreg, I see... The pickguard has an aluminum adhesive on the part that goes over the circuit cavity so that should ground the pots and then I can screw the washer onto the copper shielding, is that it? I will keep sanding the pots so I can solder them in mind if the washer star ground doesn't work. I drew out another try at this diagram, with a washer star ground. This time with the components and words in red and the wires in blue so hopefully that will make it easier to read! 

[newey]

OK, the latest diagram looks OK to me. But two heads being better, let's get someone else to bless it before you dive in.

The pickguard has an aluminum adhesive on the part that goes over the circuit cavity so that should ground the pots and then I can screw the washer onto the copper shielding, is that it?

Basically, yes. Be sure that the aluminum contacts the copper cavity shielding. Also a good idea to check for continuity between the pot shells and the shielding.

I dislike the thin little aluminum stuff they use on pickuards, so I usually put copper tape over it, so that I have a copper-to-copper connection. Some folks on the board here have also theorized that aluminum and copper may react with one another over long stretches of time, and eventually corrode. Whether that's true or not, I'm not a metallurgist so what do I know? It's probably overkill on my part, but I figure as long as I'm in there anyway and I've got extra copper tape, might as well.

[unreg]

May 17, 2023 4:45:24 GMT -5 newey said:

OK, the latest diagram looks OK to me. But two heads being better, let's get someone else to bless it before you dive in.

The star grounding looks great to me, but I’m just oking the star ground; I’ve never wired a DPDT and I’m in the dark about your switch, so please don’t include me in your “two heads” sum, leansteelbean.

Screwing the copper washer into copper shielding would be great! And if I had Copper tape, I’d do the same as newey and cover over the aluminium before attaching your pots. I too, am under the impression that two different metals touching for a long time may cause corrosion. At least, that’s the impression I received from here while working on my control cavity. One conductive material for shielding is best and copper is a GREAT choice.

[leansteelbean]

Alright, thanks guys! I do have extra copper tape lying around so what the hell, better safe than sorry right? Now I will finish installing all the hardware and hope a second head can okay my updated diagram while I work on the other parts of the guitar! 

[unreg]

May 17, 2023 10:20:23 GMT -5 leansteelbean said:

I do have extra copper tape lying around so what the hell, better safe than sorry right?

If corrosion happens between two metals (between as at the joint part) and so the grounded metal can’t transfer its ground, cleanly at least, to the other metal; then your cavity would only be partly shielded.

[leansteelbean]

May 17, 2023 14:20:54 GMT -5 unreg said:

Is there such a thing as partly shielded? I thought that either it's shielded or it isn't. Like the Faraday cage isn't a cage if one side is open

[unreg]

May 18, 2023 14:02:08 GMT -5 leansteelbean said:

Is there such a thing as partly shielded? I thought that either it's shielded or it isn't. Like the Faraday cage isn't a cage if one side is open

Yes, that’s a great point sir. You got the purpose of my message though.