bluesman13
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Post by bluesman13 on Nov 12, 2023 11:03:05 GMT -5
hello, I found what I believe is a wiring mistake in the fender service manuals. In the attached images, the neck pickup has three wires, in the right handed model, the black wire goes to the selector switch, but on the left-handed model it goes to ground on the back of the vol pot. Despite the differences between the right handed vs left handed models, the pickup wiring should be the same, shouldn't it? Which one has the correct wiring? I assume the the left handed one is incorrect because us left-handers always get the short end of the stick 😄. If I'm right and notify Fender, I'm hoping they send me something really cool!
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Post by sumgai on Nov 12, 2023 11:51:24 GMT -5
bluesman13 , Wiring colors are a matter of preference and convention, they aren't mandated by some higher authority... much to the dismay of the guitar-modding community, I assure you. That said, I'm fairly certain that the two versions have different pickups, if for no other reason than the staggered pole heights would be different for left versus right. So why would Fender change colors for one pickup, but not the other? Good question. You might want to ask them about that.... All I can say is that the different dates between the two drawings, about 17 months, indicates the possibility that two different people created them. Could it be that someone wasn't paying attention when making the second version? I dunno. HTH sumgai
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bluesman13
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Post by bluesman13 on Nov 12, 2023 16:11:56 GMT -5
hey sumgai,
thanks so much for the reply! the thing that stands out to me is that on the rt handed version, there are three wires from the neck pickup: black, yellow and white- the black wire goes to the selector switch; on the lt handed diagram, there are also three wires from the neck pickup - on this one, the black and yellow both go to ground, and no wire goes to the selector switch - that's what confused me. And if you look closely at the selector switch on the left handed diagram, there is a little circle where it looks like a wire was supposed to attach there, with no wire attached. That's interesting about the dates that the diagrams were created - that's a great point, that someone else likely created each one, which may explain the discrepancy...
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Post by reTrEaD on Nov 12, 2023 23:08:22 GMT -5
And if you look closely at the selector switch on the left handed diagram, there is a little circle where it looks like a wire was supposed to attach there, with no wire attached. It looks to me like someone screwed the pooch on the LH diagram. The upper-left lug on the switch is one of the poles. The (-) of the coil winding of the neck pickup should go there. If the RH diagram is correct that would be the black wire. The white wire is the (+) of the coil winding. The yellow is the connection to the pickup cover. |
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Post by reTrEaD on Nov 12, 2023 23:13:22 GMT -5
That said, I'm fairly certain that the two versions have different pickups, if for no other reason than the staggered pole heights would be different for left versus right. Probably not. This is a Tele, not a Strat. |
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bluesman13
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Post by bluesman13 on Nov 12, 2023 23:19:36 GMT -5
And if you look closely at the selector switch on the left handed diagram, there is a little circle where it looks like a wire was supposed to attach there, with no wire attached. It looks to me like someone screwed the pooch on the LH diagram. The upper-left lug on the switch is one of the poles. The (-) of the coil winding of the neck pickup should go there. If the RH diagram is correct that would be the black wire. The white wire is the (+) of the coil winding. The yellow is the connection to the pickup cover. thanks for the confirmation. I emailed fender support and sent copies of the diagrams, with arrows going to the wire in question on both diagrams - I guess something is lost in translation as they didn't understand what I meant... |
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Post by reTrEaD on Nov 12, 2023 23:35:07 GMT -5
I guess something is lost in translation as they didn't understand what I meant... Probably just a desk-jockey, not a tech or an engineer. Usually can't detect an accent via email but I'm guessing it would be Hindi. Just curious, where did you find those drawings? |
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Post by sumgai on Nov 12, 2023 23:48:15 GMT -5
It took awhile, but I finally doped out what that push-push switch is doing.... or alleged to do. It's a series override for Pos 2 - down is normal (parallel) and up is series. However, I'm not so sure that this is happening on the LH model, the diagram definitely is not easy to decipher!   And yes, I saw the 'solder lump' on the switch, with no wire going anywhere near it. This is indeed why I'm not certain that the series switch will work like it does in the RH model. All of which just goes to prove what we say here in The NutzHouse - a schematic divorces the physical from the theoretical. This means that one can design a logical diagram with one or more goals in mind, and do so without having to worry about where things will be mounted in the physical guitar. Doing it the other way around (making a wiring diagram without benefit of making up a schematic first) is tantamount to decorating a home before the house is even built! 'Nuff said. HTH sumgai |
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Post by sumgai on Nov 13, 2023 0:09:31 GMT -5
That said, I'm fairly certain that the two versions have different pickups, if for no other reason than the staggered pole heights would be different for left versus right. Probably not. This is a Tele, not a Strat. I've seen many "stock" Teles that had symmetrical pole height across the arc, no small percentage of 'flat' ones, and probably as many others that were staggered for 'string balance'. And the after market units, oh boy! A veritable smorgasbord of possibilities, to be sure. While I'm not so sure that a desk-drone did the LH diagram, your question about where the document might've originated set my nose to twitching - what if all 6 pages were actually made overseas? From an abbreviated set of 'Engineer's Notes'? I could see that happening, with the results that bluesman13 reported. sumgai |
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Post by reTrEaD on Nov 13, 2023 0:14:36 GMT -5
However, I'm not so sure that this is happening on the LH model, the diagram definitely is not easy to decipher! THE LH model isn't all that difficult to understand. It's meant to be nearly identical to the RH model except the pots are wired with reverse rotation for a left handed player. Due to the error in the LH drawing, the Neck pickup would be connected in all positions of the selector switch. The Bridge pickup will be connected in parallel in position 1 and when the push-pull is pushed in position 2, as well. The Bridge pickup won't be connected at all in position 2 when the push-pull is pulled. |
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Post by ssstonelover on Nov 13, 2023 0:29:18 GMT -5
Most companies make their 'lefty' wiring diagrams by making a mirror image in a graphics program (and then correct the lettering in another operation I'm sure). If you did that, you would have the same thing as the RH drawing, yet with the pot connections reversed (if that is what you like) Personally I make all my lefty guitars using RH drawings, and right hand pots. I do the mental flip in my mind for all the wiring (but leave the pot wiring 'standard' as I like pots to move just like car radio, stereo, faucets, etc.... plus the pots are way easier to find) Anyway, it is easy to flip any diagram....if it helps your visualization  |
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bluesman13
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Post by bluesman13 on Nov 13, 2023 0:37:03 GMT -5
hey retread and sumgai,
the diagrams I posted are from owners manual on the fender site:
The list certainly isn't complete, but it's still a good resource - the owners manual that I posted the page from isn't listed on that page. I found the one I posted above from here:
I found this not by searching the fender site, but a google search with the model and make. I'm sure it would work for other models as well - at least from Fender.
Sumagai,
the push-push is interesting - I didn't think I would like it (I'm pretty much a minimalist when it comes to gear), but I like the sound with the pickup switch is in the middle position (the only position where the push-push does anything) and the push-push pot is in the up position.
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bluesman13
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Post by bluesman13 on Nov 13, 2023 0:45:18 GMT -5
Most companies make their 'lefty' wiring diagrams by making a mirror image in a graphics program (and then correct the lettering in another operation I'm sure). If you did that, you would have the same thing as the RH drawing, yet with the pot connections reversed (if that is what you like) Personally I make all my lefty guitars using RH drawings, and right hand pots. I do the mental flip in my mind for all the wiring (but leave the pot wiring 'standard' as I like pots to move just like car radio, stereo, faucets, etc.... plus the pots are way easier to find) Anyway, it is easy to flip any diagram....if it helps your visualization thanks for posting that - i was going to mention that in the past, Fender would reverse the rt handed wiring diagram for the left handed model. It makes sense to me that the same attention that was given to the right handed diagram would not have been given to the lt handed version - so, I can understand the mistake in the drawing. Only recently did fender wire their left handed guitars with reverse audio pots. This particular guitar comes with them and its also noted in that same owners manual - so it has been updated... |
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Post by reTrEaD on Nov 13, 2023 0:48:52 GMT -5
Anyway, it is easy to flip any diagram....if it helps your visualization Depends on the selector switch. Should work fine for a superswitch. For a standard Fender 5-way or 3-way, not so much. The poles on those switches are lower-left and upper right. Mirror them and the wires will be on the wrong lugs. |
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Post by ssstonelover on Nov 13, 2023 1:20:58 GMT -5
Anyway, it is easy to flip any diagram....if it helps your visualization Depends on the selector switch. Should work fine for a superswitch. For a standard Fender 5-way or 3-way, not so much. The poles on those switches are lower-left and upper right. Mirror them and the wires will be on the wrong lugs. Yup, you're right, darn. Another reason I use and write all my diagrams RH and then transpose in my head, as that has less errors than 0s and 1s in a computer graphic program which only do what you ask without 'thinking' (the old garbage in / garbage out deal). LOL |
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Post by reTrEaD on Nov 13, 2023 2:23:14 GMT -5
Probably not. This is a Tele, not a Strat. I've seen many "stock" Teles that had symmetrical pole height across the arc, no small percentage of 'flat' ones, and probably as many others that were staggered for 'string balance'. And the after market units, oh boy! A veritable smorgasbord of possibilities, to be sure. I was referring to the Neck pickup (where the disparity in the wiring is). Granted, I've only had the cover off less than a dozen Fender Telecaster Neck pickups but none of them had anything other than flat pole pieces. Aftermarket pickups are irrelevant to this issue. These are Fender drawings. While I'm not so sure that a desk-drone did the LH diagram, your question about where the document might've originated set my nose to twitching - what if all 6 pages were actually made overseas? From an abbreviated set of 'Engineer's Notes'? I could see that happening, with the results that bluesman13 reported. When I was talking about desk jockeys, that was regarding the person bluesman13 was in contact with via email, who didn't understand. I really doubt the drawings were made by a desk drone or even by an overseas engineer or technician. Just domestic errata. Execramentum OccurUS. |
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bluesman13
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Post by bluesman13 on Nov 13, 2023 16:43:23 GMT -5
the tone pot is a push-push
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And yes, I saw the 'solder lump' on the switch, with no wire going anywhere near it. This is indeed why I'm not certain that the series switch will work like it does in the RH model.
