Fender Drive Deluxe wiring

[stratus]

Hi!

Firstly. I hope that I comply with all rules and don't upset any gurus by posting this so:

I plan to put in a set of Fender Deluxe Drive pickups in a Strat I have and not being a electronic genius I downloaded the diagram from fmicassets.com and wonder if someone could clue me up as to why  they recommend to use 2 caps (.100uf and .02uf) and 1 4.7k Ohm resistor per tone control?

This is not the way I intended to set up these pickups and frankly I don't understand the rationale in this diagram. Any hints very much appreciated!

I attach a png, if this is for some reson is not satisfactory the url is  www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Original/10004/Deluxe%20Drive%20Strat.pdf

Thanks

Jan

 

[newey]

It's hard to see how the caps and resistor are wired as the connections to the tone controls aren't clear on the diagram. I note that, unlike a traditional Strat which has tone controls for the neck and middle pickup, this diagram has the tone controls on the neck and bridge pickups, eliminating the middle pickup tone control. Moving the second tone pot to the bridge is one of the oldest Strat mods there is; this avoids the interaction of the tone controls at postion 4 (N + M) in the traditional Strat wiring.

In the '50's, amps were more "bass-ey". they didn't reproduce the highs very well. Fender originally left the tone control off the bridge pickup since that would be the lead setting, they wanted to conserve all the treble possible.

All I can theorize about the caps-and-resister scheme here is that they are included so as to better match the middle pickup with the neck and bridge pickups, so as to even the output. But again, can't really see how they are wired.

None of this is going to be critical, however. You could just wire it like a regular Strat and see what you think.

[stratus]

Thanks! Could it have something to do with the fact that the mid pup is RWRP? Here's a better close-up of the pdf..

[mikecg]

Hello stratus,

Well - I've just 'run the numbers' on this Fender 'offering', and as far as I can see, the 0.1uF just shifts the corner frequency of the treble cut circuit (i.e. the frequency at which the 'cut' starts to take effect) to a slightly higher frequency than it would have been - without it. It really is a very small effect, and so my advice is - not to bother with it - the 0.1uF - that is. The 4.7k series resistor appears to be an attempt to control the mid frequency resonance ('honk') that appears when the tone control is at maximum cut, and my advice is to experiment with the value of this resistor, or if you don't feel like experimenting - try 10 k Ohms! 

[frets]

Double Greasebucket circuit. I can attest to the transparency of a Greasebucket. I really like them. If one hasn’t tried them they are worth trying.

I believe they are modeled in Guitarfreak.

Never seen a resistor that looks like a hotdog🙀

[reTrEaD]

Dec 2, 2023 7:57:45 GMT -5 stratus said:

Could it have something to do with the fact that the mid pup is RWRP?

Nah, Fender has been equipping Standard Strats with a RWRP middle pickup for decades and have used the two tone pots with a shared tone cap configuration for the tone controls the entire time. You can do whatever you like for the tone circuit for the Deluxe Drive Pickups.

[stratus]

OK, thanks everybody so much!  I suppose that is pretty much what I needed to know. Just out of curiosity, anyone test drove these pickups? Apart from being high in output some say they have a darkish sound (which is what I look for). 

best regards

[reTrEaD]

Dec 2, 2023 23:53:55 GMT -5 stratus said:

Just out of curiosity, anyone test drove these pickups?

Apparently antigua has. He created a thread with results from his electrical tests of them here: Fender Deluxe Drive pickups analysis and review

[stratus]

Dec 3, 2023 2:02:22 GMT -5 reTrEaD said:

Dec 2, 2023 23:53:55 GMT -5 stratus said:

Just out of curiosity, anyone test drove these pickups?

Apparently antigua has. He created a thread with results from his electrical tests of them here: Fender Deluxe Drive pickups analysis and review

Thanks! Look good to me. I don't really care for quackyness and I tend to play amplifier rather than using effect chains, save for an overdrive, so this might just fit my needs. I also like to be able to quickly dial in a dark jazzy clean sound so hope this will work out too. Thanks for your input,very much appreciated. 

[frets]

I wouldn’t call them dark, I’d call them “full.” If that makes any sense.😸

[stratus]

Dec 3, 2023 9:09:10 GMT -5 frets said:

I wouldn’t call them dark, I’d call them “full.” If that makes any sense.😸

Yes, I suppose I need to check them out to fully understand.. So its not P90s full but meatier than say Texas Specials? How's the top end by the bridge? Thanks for taking time with this!  

[frets]

I found them to be really sensitive to height adjustments. They are pretty powerful. You can achieve pretty much what you want with adjusting. If you have them too high they can be overwhelming. I’d say the pickup adjustment is more sensitive than other pickups but that’s my subjective opinion. Don’t remember the bridge harmonics much, I just remember that with a little effort, you can get a great sound. A very well balanced sound.

[gckelloch]

The Bridge & Middle Drives are a good bit higher inductance than typical Strat pickups. That lowers the resonance freq. The higher inductance, thinner wire and AlNiCo III poles also reduce the Q, so the resonance peak level is lower. All that along with the much lower flux strength of A3 compared to A5 reduces string pull, which tends to fatten the attack character. If all that doesn't equate to a "darker" tone, I don't know what would.

I use the term "full" to describe pickups with strong note fundamentals and a smooth extended high-end without any significant cancelations. For Fender pickups, a Tele neck with 43AWG wire wound to less than 2H would be a fuller-sounding pickup than even the 3H neck Drive. Of course, a 1.4H Wilde AlNiCo Mico-Coil with 45~46AWG wire is even fuller.

Thinner wire pickups are generally more sensitive to height adjustments. Small height adjustments also make more difference the closer the coil is to the strings. Since the Drive set has A3 poles, you may be setting them closer to the strings to begin with, as people often would. A3 poles increase inductance slightly more than A5, but wind layering, insulation thickness and wind tension also matter. At 3H and 10.4k DCR for the neck, I'd guess it's more like 44AWG.

I might use a 500k Volume pot on the Drive pickup set to get better clean tones and keep the Tone knob down a bit if the bridge is too bright.

[stratus]

Hi!

Thanks for all input and just a quick catch-up. I put the Drive set into a Mexican Strat and set it up with a 500k Vol and .033 Tone. Interesting pick-ups, as mentioned before, very responsive to height and yes, you can set them very high. They have a wide sound with no harsh brightness. I have the bridge pup set up 2.7ish mm on the high E side and the E string ring loud and clear in all positions on the neck up to the 22 fret. The mid pup is a powerhouse, very loud and clear and with a nice bloom, same with the neck pup. Very fun to play. The Strat has narrow string space so the neck is also quite narrow, I'd love to put these in a guitar with better inherent bass and hear the difference. For the moment though I live on the bridge pickup, great sound.

cheers

[gckelloch]

I had an SX VTG guitar with a set of ceramic-powered Steel pole pickups wound to ~4.5k/2.3H (according to my LCR meter) that sounded better than the stock AlNiCo V pole pickups in the Agile ST625-EB I bought later. I gave them all to my brother for a guitar he made for a mutual friend, but they were nice with a strong output. The string pull was not as much as the AV pole pickups, but the Steel core does roll off the highs. Not sure what you mean by a "wide" sound, but flat-pole pickups do sound relatively warm if the coil can be set closer to the strings, and the middle strings sound darker.

[JohnH]

On the tone controls, as frets noted, they are 'Greasebucket' circuits. You can read about these on our Tone Controls section. The net result of the two caps and resistor is virtually identical to that of a single smaller cap of about 0.017uF, with the extra resistor in series. What this does is to make the tone range stop just short of the usual minimum setting where you suddenly get a big 'honking' tone. It's like a tone knob that goes down to 1 instead of 0. So if these tones are a place where you like to go, the GB circuit may make them easier to set.

I had these on my Am Special Strat, but changed to a normal tone circuit. I quite like that 'tone at 0' sound, with some fuzz.

[stratus]

Jan 2, 2024 14:58:12 GMT -5 JohnH said:

On the tone controls, as frets noted, they are 'Greasebucket' circuits. You can read about these on our Tone Controls section. The net result of the two caps and resistor is virtually identical to that of a single smaller cap of about 0.017uF, with the extra resistor in series. What this does is to make the tone range stop just short of the usual minimum setting where you suddenly get a big 'honking' tone. It's like a tone knob that goes down to 1 instead of 0. So if these tones are a place where you like to go, the GB circuit may make them easier to set.

I had these on my Am Special Strat, but changed to a normal tone circuit. I quite like that 'tone at 0' sound, with some fuzz.

Hi, 

so I first set up a quick test environment with one Volume and one Tone pot with a .033 cap so I could test the pups and balance them. 

Then I replaced this with a LC network called Tone Qube, basically a tiny black box with a 1.5h inductor in series with a .033uf cap and wires for each tone pot and an output wire. So no caps, only a small box. One pot works as a "normal" tone with .033 cap and the other as a Q filter pot. If the filter pot is at 10 it is bypassed. I wired the output from the box to the tip of the output jack together with the volume pot output. 

So I can bypass the Q filter and play as usual (with no treble bleed) with the volume and the "normal" tone pot in any position but as I turn down the filter pot it begins to scoop the mids to the point where I can get an almost acoustic sound out of the strat, a bit like piezos.

I had this setup back in the days on a strat and liked to be able to go from a full solo sound to a scooped rhythm sound with a turn of the filter pot. Sounds good to me. I would be interested in other LC networks, if anyone has any info.

gckelloch Not sure what you mean by a "wide" sound, but flat-pole pickups do sound relatively warm if the coil can be set closer to the strings, and the middle strings sound darker.

Yes, since these pups are so sensible to height its a godsend with flat poles when balancing the top strings with the middle strings.