dinos22
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
|
Post by dinos22 on May 30, 2006 9:07:38 GMT -5
took a photo of the DiMarzio AH1 & AH2 pickups that came out of an Ibanez guitar and will find their way into my one soon (hopefully) i was just looking for some sort of manual or instructions on how to install them but DiMarzio pickups on the site that kind of look similar are 4 Conductor pickups....more wires and stuff...........these seems to only have red, white and probably ground or whatever the bare wire is.........what do you guys suggest i do....i guess i first have to get a soldering iron maybe heheh....but seriously i would really need some sort of diagram not to fark this up these will go into one of these......it a decent guitar just needs some more grunt with decent humbuckers.....hence thought i'd get these DiMarzios....here's the guitar....has a 5xway switch
|
|
|
Post by wolf on May 30, 2006 9:25:18 GMT -5
dinos22Welcome to GuitarNuts. What you have is a 2 wire pickup. (Actually 2 two wire pickups). In order to convert those to 4 wire pickups, here's some instructions www.1728.com/guitar1a.htm(That is my website by the way). This is a difficult (but not impossible procedure). If you are new to this sort of thing, I'd advise against doing that just yet. What makes you think these are DiMarzio pickups? I looked at their website and it seems they do not make the AH-1 or AH-2 and almost always, DiMarzio uses 4 conductor wiring.
|
|
dinos22
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
|
Post by dinos22 on May 30, 2006 9:32:13 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by wolf on May 30, 2006 9:50:32 GMT -5
Going to the Joe Satriani Ibanez Guitar Page, www.ibanez.com/guitars/series.asp?s=js&l=ethere are 3 models of his signature guitar, 2 of these 3 specifcally say Dimarzio. (The JS 100 says Ibanez Pickups and those have the AH-1, and AH-2 designations). As for 4 wire versus 2 wire humbuckers? Go to another one of my webpages www.1728.com/guitar.htmand read about humbucker wiring. I'm sure other guitar Nuts will be here soon to offer their own views.
|
|
dinos22
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
|
Post by dinos22 on May 30, 2006 9:59:47 GMT -5
i just found this >>> wiring diagram for JS100 off Ibanez site what do you think www.ibanez.com/wiring/wire.asp?y=2004&w=JS100the only issue i can think off is that JS100 only has twin humbuckers and no single coil like my guitar + mine has a 5-way switch hmmmm donno
|
|
|
Post by wolf on May 30, 2006 13:14:28 GMT -5
That looks like a typical switching for "neck / both / bridge" pickup switching. Also, it seems as if the tone control has a switch for "coil cutting" both humbuckers. Here's something interesting I found at Harmony Central. One of the things I like about these pickups is that you can split the coils. Red is hot, white is coil split, & bare is ground. For being stock pickups they're pretty good, they're made by dimarzio. They seem to be made more for playing rhythem than lead. A good set of pickups if you want that Metallica-ish rhythem sound from their puppets & justice albums. Overall the AH-1 & AH-2 are good pickups.
Here's the link. www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data2/Ibanez/AH1-AH2-01.html
|
|
dinos22
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
|
Post by dinos22 on May 30, 2006 16:52:56 GMT -5
all i want to know i guess is can i have H-S-H config with this with a 5-way switch and how do i connect them
also what is "coil cutting" and will my guitar have/support it.....how do i check
|
|
dinos22
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
|
Post by dinos22 on May 30, 2006 17:24:02 GMT -5
here is what the wiring looks like on the guitar with current pickups in H-S-H config with 5way switch
|
|
dinos22
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
|
Post by dinos22 on May 30, 2006 23:29:22 GMT -5
anyone able to give some pointers pls
|
|
|
Post by wolf on May 31, 2006 9:40:00 GMT -5
Hello again, I thought some other GuitarNuts would have joined this topic by now. To further complicate matters, those may not be actual DiMarzio humbuckers and if so, you might be able to get a refund from the seller at E-Bay. (Not sure about that though). And if you are wondering what "coil cutting" is, go to my website page here: www.1728.com/guitar.htmand read about it. (It's in the "Humbucker" section). My own thoughts on the subject are that you could put the new humbuckers in place of the old, but don't expect to hear a world of difference from what you had. If you don't even have a soldering iron yet, you have a little bit of learning to do. I'm definitely going to try to get others in this topic.
|
|
|
Post by UnklMickey on May 31, 2006 11:16:37 GMT -5
hi Dinos22,
Wolf sent me a message, asking that i weigh in on this one.
unfortunately i don't know squat about the Ibanez 5-way switches.
so i won't be able to help you much.
but i would guess since there are so few wires going to the 5-way that it would be sort of standard strat for the combinations.
neck HB neck HB + middle middle middle + bridge HB bridge HB
so if you can identify which connection goes to which pickup, the first step would be to connect the white wire from each new pickup to the appropriate terminal of the 5-way.
you could replace either the volume OR the tone pot with a push-pull to do the coil split.
the best way would be to determine which coils have the same magnetic polarity as your middle pickup.
those are the ones you want to short or bypass with the push-pull switch.
that way, the single coils from the HBs will hum-cancel with the middle.
the pix have raised my curiosity.
are those LEDs in the pole-pieces?
unk
|
|
|
Post by fobits on May 31, 2006 16:19:35 GMT -5
In the diagram above (for the JS100) it's the opposite. The red leads go to the DPDT switch for coil-splitting. That introduces even more confusion. Coil-cutting means that only one of the coils in a humbucker is used. It becomes a single-coil pickup - which can be combined with another coil in another pickup for hum-canceling. Both of the pots are visible in the photos, and there aren't any switches on them. Pickups can be split, and the coils combined in different combinations, with the selector - IF the selector has enough poles and terminals to do that. Like Unklmickey, I don't know squat about Ibanez switches, but that one looks like a simple type. There aren't a lot of terminals or wires going to it. Based on that, I would guess that your guitar doesn't do coil-splitting now, and you wouldn't miss it with the new pickups. Do you have a multimeter? You could measure the resistance between the bare ground wire and red, then between ground and white. One should have about twice as much resistance as the other. That would be "hot". The other one would only be used for coil-splitting, which you don't have (I think HTH
|
|
|
Post by fobits on May 31, 2006 21:06:22 GMT -5
Here's a wiring diagram for an Ibanez that seems to be the same as yours. www.ibanez.com/wiring/diagrams/2005/RG1570.pdfIt has an H-S-H configuration with a 5 way switch. The pickup leads are red, white and ground. I have to retract my guess about coil splitting. The bottom of the diagram shows the coils used at each position, and both the bridge and neck are split when used with the middle one.
|
|
|
Post by ChrisK on Jun 1, 2006 0:22:17 GMT -5
fobits' post seems the clearest to me. It has the use of splitting (shorting) coupled w/ a common 5-way Ibanez strategy (I have seen other ones tho). The use of a 5-way w/ dual humbuckers (as in my SA2020X) realizes some different modes. If I recall, you get the following 5. Neck coils in series 4. Neck coils in parallel 3. Neck (coils in series) in parallel w/ bridge (coils in series) 2. Neck inner coil in parallel w. bridge inner coil 1. bridge coils in series www.ibanez.com/wiring/wire.asp?y=2002&w=S2020I'm not sure what is happening w/ yer gitar. If you know the model, look here and "see" www.ibanez.com/wiring/models.asp?t=eSince it has one volume and one tone, it sure looks like a candidate for the pedestrian Strat 5-way switch w/ one pole (side) for traditional pickup hot lead selection, and the other pole (side) for splitting. Simple is. Now, I don't have a drawing for this (nor will I). Install the switch in the body where you can see the contact selection as it's moved thru its positions. Pay attention. Wire the common terminal (the one that connects to all three lugs as you move it thru the positions) to the hot lug on the volume pot. Wire the signal return wires from each pickup to common. When the switch handle is toward the neck, connect the neck hot wire to that selected lug. When the switch handle is in the middle, connect the middle hot wire to that selected lug. When the switch handle is toward the bridge, connect the bridge hot wire to that selected lug. You now have the following modes 5. Neck humbucker 4. Neck humbucker in parallel w/ middle SC 3. Middle SC 2. Bridge humbucker in parallel w/ middle SC 1. Bridge humbucker Now, look at the other side of the switch. Put the handle into the middle position and connect the selected lug (NOT the common one on this side) to common (ground, back of pots, outer sleeve on output jack). "Ref A". Move the lever to the #1 position (bridge humbucker) and connect that selected lug to the bridge splitting wire. Move the lever to the #5 position neck humbucker) and connect that selected lug to the neck splitting wire. You now have the following modes 5. Neck humbucker 4. Neck humbucker split in parallel w/ middle SC 3. Middle SC 2. Bridge humbucker split in parallel w/ middle SC 1. Bridge humbucker If you want to be extra clever and have a push pull pot for the volume or tone, you could use it to switch the "Ref A". lug to common or nothing. Phase reversal (OOP) will be problematic due to the shield also being the humbucker pickups signal return wire. I don't think that they're LEDs, they might be DEDs (Darkness Emitting Diodes).
|
|
dinos22
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
|
Post by dinos22 on Jun 1, 2006 4:01:22 GMT -5
wow I am really glad i posted some questions as you guys are giving me some really great advice here
let me revisit some of the quotes
|
|
dinos22
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
|
Post by dinos22 on Jun 1, 2006 4:33:39 GMT -5
Here's a wiring diagram for an Ibanez that seems to be the same as yours. www.ibanez.com/wiring/diagrams/2005/RG1570.pdfIt has an H-S-H configuration with a 5 way switch. The pickup leads are red, white and ground. I have to retract my guess about coil splitting. The bottom of the diagram shows the coils used at each position, and both the bridge and neck are split when used with the middle one. thanks a lot...........this is exactly what i'm after a mate of mine is an electronics guru so i will be getting him to do the install as i'm a total n00b at this soldering business but that diagram is pretty much what i need to go by........................ in terms of coil splitting and LEDs and some of the other fancy stuff suggested i don't really plan on doing any of it unless it would actually really be handy..........as things are at the moment my brindge HB puts out a decent sound HOWEVER i own a copy of an axe (dirty words heheh) and not the real deal so the yum cha buckers I thought would be worth replacing........surely i will get slightly better sound with a pair of half decent buckers here........ one thing that also kinda annoys me at the moment is second, third and forth positions on the 5way switch...they are just plain noise and i don't know if it's the wiring or the single coil pickup itself.......i am actually eyeing an old school fender pickup for that single coil as replacement because what i'd like to do is have a kick arse soloing or rythmic sound with the HBs and a nice clean sound with the fender pickup in middle position............am i going to be disappointed in assuming something like that i was wondering what chances I would have to maybe have the following config: [glow=red,2,300] 5 ways switch positions[/glow] Position 1: Neck Humbucker Position 2: Neck Humbucker + Bridge HumbuckerPosition 3: Middle Single Coil Position 4: Middle Single Coil + Bridge Humbucker Position 5: Bridge Humbucker instead of say basic [glow=red,2,300] 5 ways switch positions[/glow] Position 1: Neck Humbucker Position 2: Neck Humbucker + Middle Single Coil Position 3: Middle Single Coil Position 4: Middle Single Coil + Bridge Humbucker Position 5: Bridge Humbucker if that's too difficult no dramas i will stick to basic config reason why i am doing up this axe-copy is that the "feel" of this guitar is great.........the neck and everything....i just like it you know what i mean.........I used to have a nice Charvel Jackson Model 6 with an EMG and it was a nice guitar but this one feels nicer for soloing to be honest.....donno why it just is heh unklmickey mentioned LEDS..............now i don't have any but now that you mention it.....hmmm would it be difficult to set up and would it affect the sound....heheh maybe something to actually look into hahahah unklmickey you mentioned that i should connect the white wire to each of the positions on the switch however that diagram that forbits posted in fact shows red ones......should i stick to red or white there bit confused.....i'm just thinking i should probably follow the diagram at forbits i have one but am not 100% sure which setting to use for resistance as my DMM has 7 different settings.............also unsure of the measurement points..........can i actually measure resistance on pickups that are not yet installed....the ones i got off ebay? my DMM Digitech QM-1320 ChrisK: I'll need a bit of time to digest that one.....trying to get my head around it
|
|
|
Post by UnklMickey on Jun 1, 2006 11:31:41 GMT -5
...i was wondering what chances I would have to maybe have the following config: [glow=red,2,300] 5 ways switch positions[/glow] Position 1: Neck Humbucker Position 2: Neck Humbucker + Bridge HumbuckerPosition 3: Middle Single Coil Position 4: Middle Single Coil + Bridge Humbucker Position 5: Bridge Humbucker you won't be able to do that with the original 5-way. you CAN do it if you replace it with a superswitch: or a megaswitch M: the closest you could come with the original switch would be: Position 1: Neck Humbucker Position 2: Neck Humbucker + Bridge HumbuckerPosition 3: Bridge Humbucker Position 4: Middle Single Coil + Bridge Humbucker Position 5: Middle Single Coil .... unklmickey you mentioned that i should connect the white wire to each of the positions on the switch however that diagram that forbits posted in fact shows red ones......should i stick to red or white there bit confused.....i'm just thinking i should probably follow the diagram... you will DEFINITELY want to verify which wire is for the full HB, and which one is the series link (you won't be using that one unless you do splitting) measure resistance between the shield and red. also measure resistance between the shield and white. one of those will be about twice the value of the other. the "hot" of the full HB, will be the connection that gives you twice the resistance. ... i have one but am not 100% sure which setting to use for resistance as my DMM has 7 different settings.............also unsure of the measurement points..........can i actually measure resistance on pickups that are not yet installed....the ones i got off ebay?... on that meter you will want to use the 20k ohm scale (19.99k ohms is the highest resistance that can be measured on that setting) use the two rightmost jacks on the meter -- COM and V-ohm-Hz when nothing is connected to the probes, you will see an over-scale indication (maybe a 1 on the left of the display with the right digits blank?) when you connect the probes together you will read 0.00 between the shield and series link, you will measure about 4~7k. between the shield and "hot" you will measure about 8~14k. (that's the connection you will be using) you absolutely CAN use the meter to measure the resistance of pickups that are not installed. in fact it is easier to do so than when they are installed. resistance give you a CLUE as to how much output a pickup might produce. more turns will give a higher resistance. in that case you will have greater output. same number of turns, with smaller diameter wire will give you a higher resistance. (but in this case, no increase in output) also, magnet strength and pole-piece design will greatly affect how much output. now you see why i say the resistance will give you a CLUE, and NOT that it will indicate how much output. BTW all that stuff from Chris, that you weren't ready to digest, is exactly what is accomplished by the drawing Fobits linked to. so, if you like the combinations: 5. Neck humbucker 4. Neck humbucker split in parallel w/ middle SC 3. Middle SC 2. Bridge humbucker split in parallel w/ middle SC 1. Bridge humbucker then, use the diagram in Fobits's link. just be sure to check the resistances first.in that diagram, the "hot"s are red. we're not sure that is the case for your pickups. unk
|
|
|
Post by ChrisK on Jun 1, 2006 15:50:01 GMT -5
Absolutely, but "seeing" the fish is a first step. That switch is a hidden function, and while some of us could decipher the switching pattern intuitively, most will never "see" it.
"The beauty of naked wafer switches...."
|
|
|
Post by UnklMickey on Jun 1, 2006 16:35:58 GMT -5
..." The beauty of naked wafer switches...." Beauty is.
|
|
dinos22
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
|
Post by dinos22 on Jun 1, 2006 17:44:37 GMT -5
on that meter you will want to use the 20k ohm scale (19.99k ohms is the highest resistance that can be measured on that setting) use the two rightmost jacks on the meter -- COM and V-ohm-Hz when nothing is connected to the probes, you will see an over-scale indication (maybe a 1 on the left of the display with the right digits blank?) when you connect the probes together you will read 0.00 between the shield and series link, you will measure about 4~7k. between the shield and "hot" you will measure about 8~14k. (that's the connection you will be using) you absolutely CAN use the meter to measure the resistance of pickups that are not installed. in fact it is easier to do so than when they are installed. resistance give you a CLUE as to how much output a pickup might produce. more turns will give a higher resistance. in that case you will have greater output. same number of turns, with smaller diameter wire will give you a higher resistance. (but in this case, no increase in output) also, magnet strength and pole-piece design will greatly affect how much output. now you see why i say the resistance will give you a CLUE, and NOT that it will indicate how much output. i won't bother with bucker+bucker........i'll just stick to standard one i just measured resistance and here are the readings.....is this good or bad or ugly heh first of all i turned to 20k setting and without COM and V-ohm-Hz jacks it measured 1 as it did with the jacks in......is that right now the readings AH1 HumbuckerRed+White = 3.93 Red+Bare = 3.89 White + Bare = 7.81 AH2 HumbuckerRed+White = 4.19 Red+Bare = 4.04 White + Bare = 8.19 these values are low.....what does that mean......and is the higher value one supposed to go to bridge or not
|
|
|
Post by UnklMickey on Jun 1, 2006 18:34:20 GMT -5
....these values are low.....what does that mean......and is the higher value one supposed to go to bridge or not Dinos22, the low resistance values mean they are probably "vintage voiced". they should sound well balanced, but low output. if you're a shredder, you probably will be underwhelmed by them. if you like clean tones, then you will like them. use the white wires. if you use the diagram Frank (Fobits) linked to, the white wires of these pickups go where the red wires in the drawing go. and the red wires of these pickups connect to the places that the white wires go to in the drawing. if you don't want the automatic coil splitting, use the white wires only. don't connect the reds to anything. yes, the AH-2 should go in the bridge. it has a few more turns so the output will be a little higher, to compensate for the lower amplitude of string movement near the bridge. BTW, with an avatar like that, i'm surprised you don't have a signature line like: " heh, heh, fire is cool...." unk
|
|
dinos22
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
|
Post by dinos22 on Jun 1, 2006 21:37:41 GMT -5
oh man i'm leaning more towards shredding than clean tones......................arghhhhhhhh..........i love playing rhytmic type metal >>> Metallica, Pantera....you know what i mean i also like clean sounds for an odd Dire Straits type sound..... lately i've really been getting back into scales and my goal is to have a decent shredder with a mean sounding bucker behind a sustainer pedal buy this might not cut it......................if i was to buy one of these would it give me more joy with sound www.behringer.com/V-AMP2/index.cfm?lang=ENGi will ask my mate to get his Fluke DMM so that we can check it properly....i'm just doubting these readings as they are very low for HBs........ when you say don't connect red wire at all can you please elaborate on that in terms of sound itself.......... fire fire fire heheheheheh .....I am an old fart from B&B MTV generation heheheh love'em after all these years.....the humour is still unique ....these values are low.....what does that mean......and is the higher value one supposed to go to bridge or not Dinos22, the low resistance values mean they are probably "vintage voiced". they should sound well balanced, but low output. if you're a shredder, you probably will be underwhelmed by them. if you like clean tones, then you will like them. use the white wires. if you use the diagram Frank (Fobits) linked to, the white wires of these pickups go where the red wires in the drawing go. and the red wires of these pickups connect to the places that the white wires go to in the drawing. if you don't want the automatic coil splitting, use the white wires only. don't connect the reds to anything. yes, the AH-2 should go in the bridge. it has a few more turns so the output will be a little higher, to compensate for the lower amplitude of string movement near the bridge. BTW, with an avatar like that, i'm surprised you don't have a signature line like: " heh, heh, fire is cool...." unk
|
|
|
Post by UnklMickey on Jun 1, 2006 22:09:31 GMT -5
i don't think those numbers are that low. it won't hurt to double-check with another meter.
i think i remember RandomHero has or had a V-amp. you might ask his opinion.
i if you use just the white wires (and shields) and don't connect the reds, on the AH1 & AH2, you'll just get the full, series connected HB.
that's the loudest thickest sound you can get out of them.
|
|
dinos22
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
|
Post by dinos22 on Jun 2, 2006 0:02:14 GMT -5
OK......i am just thinking that most of these pickups are in Ibanez guitars which are shredding type guitars....surely they would sound OK i don't think those numbers are that low. shields >>>> is that something extra i have to get or is that already there.....what are you referring to there......excuse my ignorant n00b-ness also is it going to be noisier what does the red wire do......is that the wire that splits the coils on each humbucker for 2nd and 4th positions on the switch....... are you saying that by NOT wiring red wire i basically have that diagram fobits linked with FULL humbucker+middle..... does that also mean if i connect the neck bucker's red cable i will get split coil or whatever it's called only on the 2nd position that connects neck HB and middle single coil....that would be good actually i if you use just the white wires ( and shields) and don't connect the reds, on the AH1 & AH2, you'll just get the full, series connected HB. that's the loudest thickest sound you can get out of them. also i'll try and get a mic setup to record the current channels and sound to show you guys the "noise" on 2,3,4 positions on the switch.........the actual HB positions (1st and 5th) are relatively quiet at idle..... also just to confirm........so basically if i read this chart in terms of my setup the RED wires on that chart are WHITE on my pickups.....so really i have to swap Red to White >>>>>> also White to Red right? one other thing >>> does it matter which way i turn the pickups? i just checked with the Fluke and yeap the numbers are spot on...........what's more i've been told elsewhere that the values are measure don't mean anything.....or should i say you can't really tell what sort of sound implications those measured values would have i don't think those numbers are that low. it won't hurt to double-check with another meter.
|
|
|
Post by UnklMickey on Jun 2, 2006 12:10:25 GMT -5
1...shields >>>> is that something extra i have to get or is that already there.....what are you referring to there......excuse my ignorant n00b-ness
2 also is it going to be noisier
3 what does the red wire do......is that the wire that splits the coils on each humbucker for 2nd and 4th positions on the switch.......
4 are you saying that by NOT wiring red wire i basically have that diagram fobits linked with FULL humbucker+middle.....
5 does that also mean if i connect the neck bucker's red cable i will get split coil or whatever it's called only on the 2nd position that connects neck HB and middle single coil....that would be good actually
...
6 also just to confirm........so basically if i read this chart in terms of my setup the RED wires on that chart are WHITE on my pickups.....so really i have to swap Red to White >>>>>> also White to Red right?
7...one other thing >>> does it matter which way i turn the pickups?
i just checked with the Fluke and yeap the numbers are spot on......
8.....what's more i've been told elsewhere that the values are measure don't mean anything.....or should i say you can't really tell what sort of sound implications those measured values would have...Dinos22, 1 - i was referring to the bare wires. usually they are in the form of a braided shield around the others. maybe they aren't in your case. i should have just said bare wires. those need to be connected to ground of course. don't worry about the n00b-ness. (we like newbies around here.) as long as you're making an effort, we'll keep working with you 'til you get up to speed. 2 - noisier? you mean the guitar, or our conversation? 3 - the red wire on the AHs do the splitting. they need to connect to the right half of the switch where the white wires in the drawing are 4 - that's exactly correct. if you don't connect the red wires of the AHs, you won't split the coils. 5 - yes, if you only connect the red wire of the neck AH to the right side of the switch where the white wire in the drawing is, you will split the neck HB in position 2. you will need to connect a wire from the adjacent terminal to ground like it is in the drawing. (the black wire between the two white wires) very important! in your photos, it looks like the wire that connects to the volume and tone, is connected to both poles of the switch. you MUST change that if you do the connections for splitting. connect it ONLY to the pole closest to the lugs where the pickup wires are connected now. leave the other pole with nothing connected to it. 6 - yes, the colors are backwards on the AHs. 7 - which way the pickups are rotated, won't affect hum-cancelling or phase. it will only matter in terms of the location of the coil that is being used when the AH is split. so if you split the neck AH, rotating it will affect the distance between the middle pickup and the coil that is being used on the AH. 8 - i wouldn't say they don't mean anything. i would say they are a very incomplete indicator of what a pickup might sound like. unk EDIT:i modified the drawing to show what the wiring will look like if you connect the coil split for neck only (position2) with the colors adjusted for the AHs. next 2 issues to deal with are: making sure the middle pickup is in phase with the AHs. detemining magnetic polarity of all coils. see ya next week. unk
|
|
dinos22
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
|
Post by dinos22 on Jun 2, 2006 17:48:30 GMT -5
2 - noisier? you mean the guitar, or our conversation? I mean the guitar if i don't use the red cable for splitting....just hoping that there's no humming and stuff [/size] very important! in your photos, it looks like the wire that connects to the volume and tone, is connected to both poles of the switch. you MUST change that if you do the connections for splitting. connect it ONLY to the pole closest to the lugs where the pickup wires are connected now. leave the other pole with nothing connected to it. hmmm ok what's a lug? also there are two cables joining volume and tone7 - which way the pickups are rotated, won't affect hum-cancelling or phase. it will only matter in terms of the location of the coil that is being used when the AH is split. so if you split the neck AH, rotating it will affect the distance between the middle pickup and the coil that is being used on the AH. OK.....does the distance between PUPs actually make any type of tone difference.....and one other interesting thing that comes up from there......which actual part of the HB stays active when when you split the coils with red wire....is it the flat magnet or the one with a whole in itnext 2 issues to deal with are: making sure the middle pickup is in phase with the AHs. detemining magnetic polarity of all coils. i'm a bit worried about hum and phase ....what can i look out for so that i don't get that issue.......i have a problem with what i think is humming in 2,3,4 positions with current setup
also what is phase exactly? how do i make sure it is in phase?
how do i determine polarity and why does that matter8 - i wouldn't say they don't mean anything. i would say they are a very incomplete indicator of what a pickup might sound like. From what I've seen so far from you and other blokes here i'd certain take your opinion more seriously when it comes to these mattersthat's tops mate........EDIT:i modified the drawing to show what the wiring will look like if you connect the coil split for neck only (position2) with the colors adjusted for the AHs. one last thing you see how the H-S-H are connected...........what if i connected those white wires as H-H-S......would that allow me to have both HBs in the second position if i don't connect the red cable?[/quote]
|
|
|
Post by UnklMickey on Jun 2, 2006 20:44:32 GMT -5
...noisier? you mean the guitar, or our conversation? 1 -- I mean the guitar if i don't use the red cable for splitting....just hoping that there's no humming and stuff2 - hmmm ok what's a lug? also there are two cables joining volume and tone3 -- OK.....does the distance between PUPs actually make any type of tone difference.....and one other interesting thing that comes up from there......which actual part of the HB stays active when when you split the coils with red wire....is it the flat magnet or the one with a whole in it4 -- i'm a bit worried about hum and phase ....what can i look out for so that i don't get that issue.......i have a problem with what i think is humming in 2,3,4 positions with current setup
5 -- also what is phase exactly? how do i make sure it is in phase?
6 -- how do i determine polarity and why does that matter7 -- one last thing you see how the H-S-H are connected...........what if i connected those white wires as H-H-S......would that allow me to have both HBs in the second position if i don't connect the red cable?[/size] [/quote] i'm going to start with 7 first, because it will shape the direction that this conversation will go in the future. 7 -- now that i've seen the diagram using both sides of the switch, i understand what's inside. there are a few different ways we can do things with it. yes, we can definitely have either position 2 or 4 be both full HBs without coil split. you will need to decide. do you want to keep bridge and middle or neck and middle as the other combination?either of those 2 options will result in the middle only selection being at an end of the switch sequence (either position 1 or position 5) also either the neck HB or the bridge HB will be in position 3. i think that is a small price to pay to use both HBs together. 1 -- not using the red wire(s) on the AHs won't cause any problems. 2 -- lug.... a terminal or connection point on a switch or pot. (numbering from right to left) on the drawing, you see a wire going from the 4th lug on the switch to the 3rd lug on the volume control. your photos make it appear that this wire is going to the 5th lug on the switch, and there is a connection between the 4th and 5th lugs. if we do coil splitting we must change this so it only goes to the 4th. 3 -- this is actually several inter-related questions. i'll try to make some sense with the answers. the distance between coils is very important. two coils very close together give a HB a unique sound. moving them to a moderate distance will produce a strat-like sound. moving them very far apart will give a tele-like sound. there is much more than the distance between the coils that give a strat and a tele their signature sounds, but the distance between coils IS a large factor. you will want to measure between the coils that are on the guitar right now. use the center of the pole-pieces.
measure from the middle to the nearest neck coil.
measure from the middle to the farthest neck coil.
measure from the middle to the nearest bridge coil.
measure from the middle to the farthest bridge coil.
write these measurements down.this will help us determine which way to orient the HBs so when one is used in combination with the middle, we can get as close as possible to the strat spacing. which coil WE use when split, will depend if we connect the red wire through the switch to ground like it is in the drawing (lugs 7 and 8) or to the hot (we would connect the wire from lug 7 to lug 4 instead of to the frame of the switch) you will need to do a number of tests for phasing, polarity, and which coil being used when split. i'll get into that later. 4 -- hum-canceling and phase are very important considerations. hum-canceling is extremely important when shredding (extremely high gain causes a little hum to become huge) how we manage them will be apparent -- later. i have no doubt, that you would have much hum in position 3. it's just one coil, so there is NO hum cancellation. positions 2 and 4 concern me though. i would expect that by having the cancellation occurring in the HB, summed with the hum caused by the middle, we would have less hum in 2 and 4 than in 3. it should be hum- reducing, but certainly not hum-canceling. if we play our cards right, we will use either 4 coils, or 2 coils in any combination. that should give us much better hum-cancellation. 5 -- phase, that means when a string moves, say for instance, closer to the pickups, do the outputs both go positive or both go negative (In-Phase). or does the output from one pickup go positive, and the other go negative (Out-of-Phase -- aka OoP) OoP is interesting but very thin sounding. we DEFINITELY want In-Phase for your guitar. 6 -- magnetic polarity is important for hum cancellation. if we have 2 coils that are in phase for string sensing, but of opposite magnetic polarity, the external hum that strikes those coils will cancel. if we have 2 coils that are OoP for string sensing, but of the same magnetic polarity, the hum will also cancel. we won't be doing OoP on your guitar. to determine the polarity we need a small magnet, or a single coil pickup out of a guitar. instead of worrying about north and south, all we need to be concerned with it same or different. if we put the magnet (or a single coil pickup) on the front of your middle pickup, it will want to stick to the pickup's pole-pieces in one direction. if we flip the magnet over, it will push away from the pickup. mark the magnet when it is stuck to the front of your middle pickup so you can recognize the orientation. we'll call this polarity A.
then use the same magnet on your HBs. write down the polarities for the flat slugs and for the slugs with the holes. the holes and the flats should be opposite one should be A and one should be B. the holes on the AH1 will probably be the same as the holes on the AH2. but this is not certain. test it and write down the results.okay that covers your questions. now for one last bit of testing you will need to do. sensing polarity -- phase / and / which coil is connected to hot on the AHs the "screwdriver pull-off test"
if you connect a DC voltmeter to a pickup, you can determine the polarity of the pulse that is created when you pull the blade of a screwdriver that is stuck to the pole-piece away from it.
your meter should be set to 200 mV (200 mili-volts) the pulse should be about 100mv, but that is not important. what is important is: is it a positive voltage or a negative voltage.
in these tests, always connect the black probe (COM) of the meter to the bare wire or ground.
if the middle pickup in your guitar is still connected, we can still test it.
connect the black from the meter to the sleeve of your guitar cord.
connect the red from the meter to the tip of the guitar cord.
with the volume and tone on 10, and the selector switch in 3, measure the DC voltage when you pull the screwdriver blade away.
write down if this is positive or negative.
also write down the color of the wire going to lug 2 of selector switch.
and the color of the wire(s) from the middle pickup that connect to ground points like the frame of the selector, or lug 1 of the volume control.
next the AHs:
connect the black of the meter to the bare wire of the pickup.
connect the red of the meter to the white of the pickup.
is the voltage positive or negative when the screwdriver blade is pulled away?
which coil is between the red and bare:
connect the black of the meter to the bare of the pickup.
connect the red of the meter to the red of the pickup.
when you pull the blade of the screwdriver away from the pole-pieces, you will find that either the holes or the flats produce a voltage that is almost the same as when we we connected to the white wire. and the other one will produce nothing, or perhaps a very small voltage.
which one produces a large voltage, holes or flats?well that should be a bit of work to do. but getting it right, is what separates the GuitarNutZ from the wannabees. i'll be signing off for the weekend soon, so if you need more info, one of the other maniacs will be able to help you. i'll take a look at the results from your tests next week and we will decide on the best configuration for your guitar. unk
|
|
dinos22
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
|
Post by dinos22 on Jun 2, 2006 22:34:57 GMT -5
thanks mate looks like i got an interesting weekend ahead ;D you've actually answered my question already.....heh it only took me a full page of questions to get there in the end....i think this setup will be the way to go...........do you think that having two HB will thicken my sound for shredding somewhat in position No.2 there? i realise they are somewhat apart but sort of leads me to believe two HBs are better than one anyway ;D .....i guess once i get it all organised and strap it all up i will know >>>> anyways this is what i want and i don't mind this type of setup at all.... the closest you could come with the original switch would be: Position 1: Neck Humbucker Position 2: Neck Humbucker + Bridge HumbuckerPosition 3: Bridge Humbucker Position 4: Middle Single Coil + Bridge Humbucker Position 5: Middle Single Coil i was also thinking about getting a cheap fender pickup off ebay to stick in the middle maybe but donno i might try the one there and if no good get the fender.....would i really have much different between a fender and one of these generic ones.....in the config i'm going for
|
|
|
Post by Runewalker on Jun 3, 2006 10:06:42 GMT -5
To reinforce Unk's assertion those Ibanez pups are not that low, they tend towards vintage compared to the more over the top readings out there now, but are still hotter than my '68 LP's pups of 6.5K, and it shread quite nicely thank you, at least once I learn to shred.
With todays amps, stomp boxes, and modelers you can get as much nasty as your want or can afford. That is a comment that covers a number of 'hobbies.'
as an aside, this looks more like a wiring thread than a pickup thread.
What do you think about moving it to E&W?
RW
|
|
dinos22
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
|
Post by dinos22 on Jun 3, 2006 17:52:59 GMT -5
as an aside, this looks more like a wiring thread than a pickup thread. What do you think about moving it to E&W? RW yeap./.....it will become a pickup thread on the next page ;D
|
|