Barrel jacks vs open frame, a firestorm of negative comments

[ssstonelover]

(Moved to Guitar Wiring forum by sumgai, Jan 8, 2024)

I like to build guitars using "barrel jacks" often times but am finding they are very polarizing and that it's easy to find highly negative comments on the web about failure. (Got to love the web! LOL)
I recently posted a picture spread of a build I did with them on a Facebook luthier forum, and got these unsolicited comments out of the blue:
1. "Good concept, but I hate barrel jacks. They always flake out and impossible to repair"
2. "I will never use one of these either, I've had too many instruments come back with failures."
3. "Those jack's suck. I will never use them again. I have replaced many."

I have never had a problem with Ibanez basses (models 500 and 300) using these, nor on my own builds (about 6 or 7) with Stew-Mac (trs) 1819, or German MEC (trs) long threaded output jacks....
-I do use quality cables and plugs (livewire, etc)

What can you tell me (and what can I say) to those 'haters'? What are they doing wrong to have this issue (and so frequently, "replaced many", "always flake out", etc)?
What is the reason I have had no issue after years?
What makes a good setup between cable plug and barrel jack?

If this is just a compatibility issue (6mm vs 1/4") or a quality issue (cheap vs higher end) or contact (trs vs ts) I'd like to get that in the open. I spend a lot of time making guitars I'm proud of, and now I feel they could be getting dragged down by 'issues' they actually don't have, plus dislike the slurring of the makers of quality barrel jacks (and cables). I'd like to balance the balance between fact vs fiction, and have some good answers and a voice of reason. Yes, for sure people have had issues (or this would never have come up) but a "throwing out the baby with the bath way" approach smacks of illogic and put designs into an unnecessarily restrictive straightjacket. (my opinion anyway)

So people know what a barrel jack looks like, and how it is used (at least on my stuff) here are some images.

[sumgai]

Bethany,


I can appreciate your dilemma. But I do have to say, I also have a particular desire to be able to "fix" things as easily as possible, so I'm in the open frame camp. And I also admit that there are times, in certain builds, where a long barrel puts the terminals in a more friendly position for the builder, that's true.

But in the long run, you may have overlooked why those luthiers are so adamant in their choice - it's spelled out pretty clearly - returns from customers due to faulty jacks.  And this isn't necessarily due to the quality of the jack itself, but more likely the reason is ham-fisted players who don't know they're mistreating a rather more delicate part, compared to the tried-and-true Switchcraft open frame 1/4" audio jack. (Type 11 for mono (TS) or Type 12 for stereo (TRS)).

As Amazon notes in a special box, pretty close to the top of the page, this part is one of their least returned items, people tend to have far fewer problems with it. But then again, perhaps that's where the quality comes into play, because it costs about twice as much as the knock-off's and wannabe's.

HTH

EDIT: And now you know why I outfit my guitars with RF cables!



sumgai

[ssstonelover]

Jan 8, 2024 17:04:00 GMT -5 sumgai said:

And now you know why I outfit my guitars with RF cables!
sumgai

I have to confess I did not know about RF cables (the connectors in particular), but they do seem pretty bulletproof against "ham-handed guitarists" LOL. Thanks for the knowledge. 
Wireless would be another avenue to avoid jack damage.

As you can guess, I am certainly not against open frame (or the various enclosed frame TRS jacks such as the Switchcraft 112B and their TS brothers), I use them all, depending on the job at hand, but certainly I do have a fondness for the clean lines of a barrel jack and how it opens up lots of positioning possibilities in a fresh build.

[newey]

ssstonelover-

When sumgai says "RF cable", he means a wireless system. It's an old sort-of jokey reference from the early days of the Board here, not sure offhand whether it was ChrisK or sumgai who coined it. But the joke being that the best cable was no cable at all.

I've had a few guitars that used barrel jacks, I've never used one in a build myself (but then I'm also not doing any woodworking, either). Never had a problem with them in any guitar I had- but then, I'm playing, usually seated, in my house, not jumping around onstage, yanking on the cable (if not an RF type cable . . .). I can see where excess ham-fistedness might well play a role here.

If there is a potential failure mode for any piece of gear, I'm probably not pushing the envelope in my bedroon enough to trigger whatever failure mode there might be.

Again, I'm just spitballin' here, ya unnerstand. But part of me wants to think that perhaps the closed confines of the barrel are less forgiving if the plug is not inserted straight in when first pushed in. Plugging in on a dark stage, often by feel if the jack is on the lower edge of the body, could result in repeated insertions at a bit of an angle, until the point where the plug's shaft fully engages into the jack. maybe the open frame is more forgiving of that sort of treatment. I dunno, just speculating.

[ssstonelover]

Noted Newey. Thanks for the comments.

[nuke]

The biggest problem with the deep or "barrel" jack is that they're closed and "stuff" winds up inside of them and they fail. The "stuff" is everything from the fuzzy fabric fluff from your guitar case, to bits of rolling papers, cigarette ashes, dandelion fluff and all kinds of random junk, sticky residue of spilled beers, etc winds up in them. The contacts have less pressure and what not, but of the guitars I've seen in the last 30+ years with bad barrel jacks, it was because something that wasn't supposed to be in it. 

The classic, Switchcraft #11 open frame jack, stuff that finds its way in, just falls out inside the guitar. The contacts are more robust and honestly, the things hardly ever fail. 

The only issue with the #11 jack is that it needs a thin panel to bolt into. The deep enclosed barrel jacks solve a production problem, since they'll just go right into a hole drilled in a relatively deep chunk of wood. 

[JohnH]

Well I think my preference is for plastic Cliff jacks or similar. Particularly the stereo TRS type, even for a mono connection. There are three springs giving a nice firm even grip on the plug along its length.

[ssstonelover]

Apr 8, 2024 6:02:54 GMT -5 JohnH said:

Well I think my preference is for plastic Cliff jacks or similar.

This info is intriguing and I see that the ¼″ S2 External Thread Jack Sockets (solder lug type) could be useful for a Tele type guitar, given that the Tele jack socket is mounted to a metal plate (panel type mount) and that the wood is bored out big enough to also accommodate the diameter of the socket (which is about the same width as an open frame socket).

I'm not seeing any direct Cliff counter-product to the deep and narrow 'barrel' jack sockets such as I've been using (I've been emulating the Ibanez look/construction). The closest fit (smaller bore in the wood) might be the 1/4'' S1V vertical PCB
mounting Jack Socket type which however is optimized for PCB soldering, but which might be adaptable to point-to-point guitar wire soldering.