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Post by thedirestrat on Jul 30, 2024 2:23:35 GMT -5
Hey guys,
It's been a while since I last posted-- today I got a relatively easy question to answer-- I think anyway. This here is the blower mod: As you can see, when you pull up on the switch, the pickup bypasses the whole circuit and goes completely to the output.
What I want to do is be able to alternate between two pickups (bridge or neck) while in "blower mode". So another separate switch (SPDT) that chooses between the neck lead and the bridge lead, and sends the output to the blower switch (replacing Wire X in this diagram).
I thought this should work, then I realized that wire X is sent to "Point A" in "Normal non blower mode", where Point A is probably the pickup selector 5way or 3way switch. I would only want that mini switch to affect things when the blower mod is on-- otherwise I think I see this switch interfering with the main normal pickup selector switch! I was honestly thinking that the whole Point A wire could be disregarded completely... maybe I'm wrong?
Am I completely wrong? How would I be able to do this?
Thanks!!!
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Post by newey on Jul 30, 2024 5:28:21 GMT -5
The point of a blower mod is to take the resistance of the V and T pots out of the circuit, so you get higher output and more high end for soloing. So, typically, the blower is wired to the bridge pickup alone, before the other pickup switching. This is what your diagram shows.
But if you want the blower available for any pickup combination, the blower needs to go after the pickup switching, not before it. Wire X will go to the pickup switching. The switch then switches between Point A (no pots in circuit) and point B, straight to the jack. I can do a diagram if needed but I think you can figure it out from the above description.
However, the above description assumes we're talking about a single master V and tone. If this is like an LP with individual volume and tone controls, it gets more complex.
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Post by thedirestrat on Jul 30, 2024 10:01:36 GMT -5
The point of a blower mod is to take the resistance of the V and T pots out of the circuit, so you get higher output and more high end for soloing. So, typically, the blower is wired to the bridge pickup alone, before the other pickup switching. This is what your diagram shows. But if you want the blower available for any pickup combination, the blower needs to go after the pickup switching, not before it. Wire X will go to the pickup switching. The switch then switches between Point A (no pots in circuit) and point B, straight to the jack. I can do a diagram if needed but I think you can figure it out from the above description. However, the above description assumes we're talking about a single master V and tone. If this is like an LP with individual volume and tone controls, it gets more complex. Hey Newey! Thanks for your reply, it’s always good hearing from you  Completely understand what you’re saying, no diagram necessary! I thought of doing that too— but I like that I can have my “rhythm controls”— ex: neck pickup, tone knob at 7– then switch on the blower for bridge pickup lead with extra volume and treble, genius. This would be for a *strat*, master tone and master volume. So I like the standard blower idea, I just want two voices from it instead of one. I thought of putting a mini-switch that selects either between the neck or the bridge pickup. So: 1. I can have my rhythm settings as I please 2. I can switch on the blower for a complete bypassing of the controls, and let’s say it’s the bridge pickup that’s being “solo’d” 3. I can toggle the mini switch so instead of the bridge being solo’d, it’s the neck being solo’d. 4. I can turn off the blower toggle so that I’m back to my rhythm settings. I think such a thing can be possible. I’ll send my diagram idea after. Let me know what you think! |
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Post by thedirestrat on Jul 30, 2024 10:07:04 GMT -5
Oh and also a question—
In the stock blower mod schematic I sent above
The wire that goes to the pickup selector (Point A), is it removable if I just have a wire coming from the bridge position of the switch instead of the actual bridge pickup lead itself?
Again, Wire X would be a wire coming from the selector switch but where the bridge pickup lead is connected— so not from the pickup directly. My logic is: when the blower switch is toggled, the volume wiper is disconnected and the jack is directly connected to Wire X, a wire coming from the bridge pickup but at the pickup switch. This way, when I toggle down the blower, I don’t need to have a wire going to the pickup selector switch because I already have the bridge pickup connected to the pickup selector switch.
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Post by reTrEaD on Jul 30, 2024 11:51:26 GMT -5
So I like the standard blower idea, I just want two voices from it instead of one. I thought of putting a mini-switch that selects either between the neck or the bridge pickup. So: 1. I can have my rhythm settings as I please 2. I can switch on the blower for a complete bypassing of the controls, and let’s say it’s the bridge pickup that’s being “solo’d” 3. I can toggle the mini switch so instead of the bridge being solo’d, it’s the neck being solo’d.4. I can turn off the blower toggle so that I’m back to my rhythm settings. I think such a thing can be possible. Yes, that's possible but the mini switch (let's call it the which switch) has several duties to perform. - Point B and Wire Y will remain constant, regardless of the position of the which switch. Therefore the right side of the blower switch wiring can remain the same. - We no longer have a singular Wire X and Point A.- In the mode where the which-switch selects the Bridge pickup as the one being solo'd, Wire Xneck connects directly to Point Aneck.
Wire Xbridge connects to the common on the left side of the Blower switch. The upper left throw of the Blower switch must connect to Point Abridge
- In the mode where the which-switch selects the Neck pickup as the one being solo'd, Wire Xbridge connects directly to Point Abridge.
Wire Xneck connects to the common on the left side of the Blower switch. The upper left throw of the Blower switch must connect to Point Aneck
- I reckon the which-switch will need to be at least a 3PDT. Maybe that requirement could be reduced to a DPDT but I can't see an obvious way of making that happen.  |
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Post by thedirestrat on Jul 30, 2024 17:47:00 GMT -5
- We no longer have a singular Wire X and Point A.- In the mode where the which-switch selects the Bridge pickup as the one being solo'd, Wire Xneck connects directly to Point Aneck.
Wire Xbridge connects to the common on the left side of the Blower switch. The upper left throw of the Blower switch must connect to Point Abridge
- In the mode where the which-switch selects the Neck pickup as the one being solo'd, Wire Xbridge connects directly to Point Abridge.
Wire Xneck connects to the common on the left side of the Blower switch. The upper left throw of the Blower switch must connect to Point Aneck
- I reckon the which-switch will need to be at least a 3PDT. Maybe that requirement could be reduced to a DPDT but I can't see an obvious way of making that happen. Hey, thanks for your response reTrEaD!! What you have in mind is exactly what I want to do. It’s just how to do it that’s the challenge, as always right?! I don’t mind using a 3PDT switch, but how would you wire it? If you don’t mind explaining (you’re so good at it you don’t need a diagram) or using a diagram if you think it’s necessary, I would appreciate it. In the meantime, here’s what I had in mind newey and reTrEaD:  It uses a DPDT switch, and for the blower switch, it gets rid of Wire A, as I was thinking the neck pickup and the bridge pickup already go to the pickup switch. The Which Switch (great freakin’ name reTrEaD!) should ONLY be operational during the Blower Mode (toggled). I don’t want it changing things in “standard” operations. I think this way would work because the wires going to the Which Switch are like extensions coming from the pickups in their respective pickup selector positions. Current would only flow through these extension wires once the Blower mod is toggled: where the jack output disconnects from the volume and the pickup selector (thus eliminating current from going through them) and connects to the Which Switch— so a direct path to output, where either the neck pickup or bridge pickup “extension” wires would be selected by the Which Switch. Does this make sense? Would there be any “hanging from hot” issues as I heard Yogi B once say? Thanks! |
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Post by newey on Jul 30, 2024 19:27:25 GMT -5
thedirestrat- Yes, it has been a while, good to hear from you again. My first thought was, OK, so you're going to have two extra switches, a blower switch, and, as RT says, a "which switch". Why not then just put a separate blower switch on each pickup? It's the same number of added switches, and no 3-pole required, you can just use your original diagram two times over. And, you get an added voice- both pickups blown at the same time. Just my thought. The K.I.S.S. principle.
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Post by stevewf on Jul 30, 2024 22:34:23 GMT -5
Here's what I've gotten as the desired controls: -Bridge Pickup, Neck Pickup. -Should be able to select Bridge, Both (parallel), or Neck, and filter them by Master Vol and Master Tone -Should also be able to select Bridge, Both (parallel), or Neck straight to the output jack. Snap my suspenders if I've got the above interpretation wrong, please. So couldn't that be done like the following?  It uses a SPDT after the selector switch (drawn as a DPDT with one pole unused). And now harden my hatbrim if the above is invalid. |
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Post by thedirestrat on Jul 31, 2024 0:17:30 GMT -5
thedirestrat- Yes, it has been a while, good to hear from you again. My first thought was, OK, so you're going to have two extra switches, a blower switch, and, as RT says, a "which switch". Why not then just put a separate blower switch on each pickup? It's the same number of added switches, and no 3-pole required, you can just use your original diagram two times over. And, you get an added voice- both pickups blown at the same time. Just my thought. The K.I.S.S. principle. Man, this is why I love this forum-- you guys are truly the best, thanks Newey! You take my convoluted nonsense and simplify it! This is a great idea.
Being the curious-to-a-fault kinda guy I am, I still want to know if the crude schematic I sent above would make sense-- what do you think? The inner electronics obsession part of me wants to figure out if such a thing is plausible.
But I'm probably going to do your double blower way. And I'm also probably gonna try my way to see if it works or if it's a bust lol. I cannot help it.
By the way, the Tele/Broadcaster project is still in the works, I'm currently getting the neck re-sprayed!
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Post by thedirestrat on Jul 31, 2024 0:24:47 GMT -5
Here's what I've gotten as the desired controls: -Bridge Pickup, Neck Pickup. -Should be able to select Bridge, Both (parallel), or Neck, and filter them by Master Vol and Master Tone -Should also be able to select Bridge, Both (parallel), or Neck straight to the output jack. Snap my suspenders if I've got the above interpretation wrong, please. So couldn't that be done like the following? It uses a SPDT after the selector switch (drawn as a DPDT with one pole unused). And now harden my hatbrim if the above is invalid. Hey, what a coincidence that we got similar things going on! I think how yours differs from mine is that your blower is connected to your pickup selector. So you can solo any pickup selected by it: essentially bypassing the knobs. I want to bypass *everything*, even the pickup selector. I want to have a rhythm tone, and then immediately a lead tone-- usually the bridge straight to jack. This time however, while in "blower mode", I want to alternate between only two pickups, the neck and bridge-- I have a Strat, so that includes 5 positions-- I only want another switch to choose between neck and bridge. So a switch to turn blower on bypassing everything, and a mini switch that only activates during blower mode and decides between neck and bridge to output directly to the jack output.
Look at my schematic in reply #5, it's the crude Microsoft Paint one. Do you think it'll work as intended?
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Post by newey on Jul 31, 2024 5:18:44 GMT -5
thedirestrat- On your hand drawn one, the green wire from the "which switch" doesn't connect to anything in one position. To both stevewf and thedirestrat- You're both forgetting that we also have a pickup switch in there somewhere. This is a Strat-type guitar with a 5-way switch. If the 5-way switch is set to the middle pickup and you switch the blower, you'll kill the output. This means you could never "preset" the blower, which is what thedirestrat wants to be able to do. Same at positions 2 and 4. You can't just switch between the neck's 5-way connection and the bridge's 5-way connection, you have to switch the output of the whole 5-way switch from the jack, and then disconnect it when the blower is activated. Then, in addition, you have to switch the neck on/off the blower and do the same with the bridge. That's why reTrEaD said you'd need a 3-pole switch, you're needing to switch three things independently.
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Post by reTrEaD on Jul 31, 2024 12:30:21 GMT -5
Hey, thanks for your response reTrEaD !! What you have in mind is exactly what I want to do. It’s just how to do it that’s the challenge, as always right?! I don’t mind using a 3PDT switch, but how would you wire it? If you don’t mind explaining (you’re so good at it you don’t need a diagram) or using a diagram if you think it’s necessary, I would appreciate it. This should get you where you want to go but wait until newey or one of the other nuts proofreads it to insure I haven't made any errors.  In the meantime, here’s what I had in mind newey and reTrEaD : It uses a DPDT switch, and for the blower switch, it gets rid of Wire A, as I was thinking the neck pickup and the bridge pickup already go to the pickup switch. The Which Switch (great freakin’ name reTrEaD !) should ONLY be operational during the Blower Mode (toggled). I don’t want it changing things in “standard” operations. I think this way would work because the wires going to the Which Switch are like extensions coming from the pickups in their respective pickup selector positions. Current would only flow through these extension wires once the Blower mod is toggled: where the jack output disconnects from the volume and the pickup selector (thus eliminating current from going through them) and connects to the Which Switch— so a direct path to output, where either the neck pickup or bridge pickup “extension” wires would be selected by the Which Switch. Does this make sense? Would there be any “hanging from hot” issues as I heard Yogi B once say? Thanks! This is simple and direct and in some conditions it will produce the desired result. In other conditions, it won't work quite as expected. It boils down to which pickup is chosen for the blower, and whether or not that pickup is part of the selection made by the 5-way. Let's take an example of the Neck pickup being chosen by the which-switch. In position 1 (Bridge only), 2 (Bridge and Middle), or 3 (Middle only), life is good. When we engage the blower switch, it doesn't matter that the Bridge and/or Middle pickup are connected to the tone control and volume control. The wiper of the volume control is disconnected from the output jack, and they aren't part of the circuit. The Neck pickup is routed directly to the output jack via the which-switch and blower switch and it's as bright and loud as it can possibly be. because it isn't loaded by the Middle tone or the Volume control. In position 5 (Neck only), we connect the Neck pickup directly to the output jack but the Neck pickup is also connected to the Neck tone control and the volume control via the 5-way. We won't have any reduction of volume caused by the wiper being at less than full-clockwise. But we will have a slight reduction of volume and brightness because of the loading of the tone control and volume control. It will sound exactly the same as position 5 when the blower switch is not engaged and the volume control is at full-clockwise. If the Neck tone control is rotated counter-clockwise, it will dull the tone even further in the blower mode. In position 4 (Neck and Middle) we have the same problem as position 5 but we also add two other issues. The Blower connection is loaded by the volume control and not one, but TWO tone controls (Neck tone and Middle tone). AND the Middle pickup is part of the Blower combination because of the bridging action of the 5-way switch. IF you can tolerate the Neck blower working perfectly in selections 1, 2, 3 but less desirably in positions 4 and 5, and the Bridge blower working perfectly in selections 3, 4, and 5 but less desirably in positions 1 and 2, the simplicity of your design would be the way to go. If you need to have full blower action regardless of the selection on the 5-way, the 3PDT solution is the path to success. |
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Post by thedirestrat on Jul 31, 2024 16:40:17 GMT -5
thedirestrat- On your hand drawn one, the green wire from the "which switch" doesn't connect to anything in one position. To both stevewf and thedirestrat- You're both forgetting that we also have a pickup switch in there somewhere. This is a Strat-type guitar with a 5-way switch. If the 5-way switch is set to the middle pickup and you switch the blower, you'll kill the output. This means you could never "preset" the blower, which is what thedirestrat wants to be able to do. Same at positions 2 and 4. You can't just switch between the neck's 5-way connection and the bridge's 5-way connection, you have to switch the output of the whole 5-way switch from the jack, and then disconnect it when the blower is activated. Then, in addition, you have to switch the neck on/off the blower and do the same with the bridge. That's why reTrEaD said you'd need a 3-pole switch, you're needing to switch three things independently. Dearest newey, thanks so much for this excellent explanation. Now I understand why my diagram doesn't work-- I can't forget about the pickup selector switch! So that's why I need a 3PDT switch for the which-switch to be completely separate from the pickup selector switch. |
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Post by thedirestrat on Jul 31, 2024 16:44:58 GMT -5
This is simple and direct and in some conditions it will produce the desired result. In other conditions, it won't work quite as expected. It boils down to which pickup is chosen for the blower, and whether or not that pickup is part of the selection made by the 5-way. Let's take an example of the Neck pickup being chosen by the which-switch. In position 1 (Bridge only), 2 (Bridge and Middle), or 3 (Middle only), life is good. When we engage the blower switch, it doesn't matter that the Bridge and/or Middle pickup are connected to the tone control and volume control. The wiper of the volume control is disconnected from the output jack, and they aren't part of the circuit. The Neck pickup is routed directly to the output jack via the which-switch and blower switch and it's as bright and loud as it can possibly be. because it isn't loaded by the Middle tone or the Volume control. In position 5 (Neck only), we connect the Neck pickup directly to the output jack but the Neck pickup is also connected to the Neck tone control and the volume control via the 5-way. We won't have any reduction of volume caused by the wiper being at less than full-clockwise. But we will have a slight reduction of volume and brightness because of the loading of the tone control and volume control. It will sound exactly the same as position 5 when the blower switch is not engaged and the volume control is at full-clockwise. If the Neck tone control is rotated counter-clockwise, it will dull the tone even further in the blower mode. In position 4 (Neck and Middle) we have the same problem as position 5 but we also add two other issues. The Blower connection is loaded by the volume control and not one, but TWO tone controls (Neck tone and Middle tone). AND the Middle pickup is part of the Blower combination because of the bridging action of the 5-way switch. IF you can tolerate the Neck blower working perfectly in selections 1, 2, 3 but less desirably in positions 4 and 5, and the Bridge blower working perfectly in selections 3, 4, and 5 but less desirably in positions 1 and 2, the simplicity of your design would be the way to go. If you need to have full blower action regardless of the selection on the 5-way, the 3PDT solution is the path to success. reTrEaD, I first wanna thank you for the beautiful schematic-- I'm obviously not one of those proof reading pro nuts, I'm just a "nut" in the crazy, scheming way... but your schematic makes perfect sense. And in tandem with your explanation, along with newey's, I can clearly see where I went wrong. Thanks for the lesson, I can always count on learning stuff in my field of passion here. I will try your 3PDT method over the dual blower switch, but if I mess it up, or it's a clunky idea, I'll go with the dual blower like newey suggested.
Now there's another added complication that I'd like to bring up... I currently have the gilmour mod set up to one of my push-pull pots-- this adding neck mod thing is surely going to mess with my blower mod and which-switch here, right? |
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Post by stevewf on Jul 31, 2024 16:49:31 GMT -5
To both stevewf and thedirestrat- You're both forgetting that we also have a pickup switch in there somewhere. This is a Strat-type guitar with a 5-way switch. Shoot! I didn't notice that it's for a strat until I dug back into this thread a few messages. Oops. I did need my suspenders snapped! More edit, regarding the requirements/constraints: So, it's a strat-style three-pickup guitar, and so far it has a standard 5-way (not superswitch) and master vol and master tone. We're looking at adding a new toggle switch (one new hole in the pickguard), and we want to enable two modes, chosen at the flick of the new toggle: -Blower mode, where we can preset either the neck pickup or the bridge pickup -Normal mode with the usual "notched" 5-way selector (and, being non-blower mode, uses the master vol and master tone) Do I have it right now, or should I brace for more suspender snapping? |
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Post by thedirestrat on Jul 31, 2024 17:23:46 GMT -5
Do I have it right now, or should I brace for more suspender snapping? You would be 100% right stevewf, so you can lay those suspenders to rest  I ask you a question-- using reTrEaD's circuit, would have a gilmour mod (push pull pot to add in the neck to Positions 1 and 2) be a problem? Would it interfere? Obviously in Blower Mode, I would not want any Gilmour tomfoolery. Thanks!
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Post by thedirestrat on Jul 31, 2024 17:26:05 GMT -5
Also, I do realize with the dual blower mods, I can have the neck and bridge in parallel by activating both blowers, however it wouldn't be with the volume and tone knob, which I most definitely use with the neck+bridge added position. Oh and I would lose out on all three pickups in parallel. If it adds too much complication, I rather just scrap the Gilmour neck add and have the Blower switch with the which-switch.
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Post by reTrEaD on Jul 31, 2024 20:05:20 GMT -5
Now there's another added complication that I'd like to bring up... I currently have the gilmour mod set up to one of my push-pull pots-- this adding neck mod thing is surely going to mess with my blower mod and which-switch here, right? The Neck-on switch won't affect the Bridge blower in your circuit any more than without it. But when engaged, the Neck-on switch will cause all sorts of trouble in virtually every position of the 5-way for the Neck blower. In contrast, the 3PDT which-switch doesn't care at all about the Neck-on switch. Since the Neck-on switch is implemented at the lugs of the 5-way and the 3PDT breaks the connection of the blower pickup before it gets to the 5-way, everything will function exactly as intended. |
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Post by newey on Jul 31, 2024 20:15:56 GMT -5
reTrEaD's diagram checks out by me. It's actually a particularly elegant solution, too, I didn't "see" using the 3PDT in that fashion.
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Post by thedirestrat on Jul 31, 2024 20:29:41 GMT -5
Now there's another added complication that I'd like to bring up... I currently have the gilmour mod set up to one of my push-pull pots-- this adding neck mod thing is surely going to mess with my blower mod and which-switch here, right? The Neck-on switch won't affect the Bridge blower in your circuit any more than without it. But when engaged, the Neck-on switch will cause all sorts of trouble in virtually every position of the 5-way for the Neck blower. In contrast, the 3PDT which-switch doesn't care at all about the Neck-on switch. Since the Neck-on switch is implemented at the lugs of the 5-way and the 3PDT breaks the connection of the blower pickup before it gets to the 5-way, everything will function exactly as intended. Wow, reTrEaD, you truly are the hero of this thread. This probably won't happen, but anyone looking to implement my idea can easily do so now because of you. And newey and stevewf, I appreciate your help and invaluable input as well! Time to get orderin' and solderin' |
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