I seem to have this problem...

[RandomHero]

...with the alcohol. I don't intend to turn this into an AA group or dump my problems here, I know that's not what this site is about. But you all, for as long as I have known you, have been kind, helpful, even-tempered and generally experienced in the many walks of life.

I'm not yet of legal age to drink, I will be in a little under three months now. Of course I have many friends who can get alcohol, so it's easy to get my hands on. Now, I'm not a constant drunk, I drink on average once every week or two. But when I get drunk, I seriously overdo it. Not like alcohol poisoning overdo it, but passing out, blacking out, that kind of overdo it.

I wanna stop, completely. All my friends are past the point where they could stop if they want. I don't seek the stuff on my own, usually, but if it's there I usually won't turn it down. How can I tell my friends I'm gonna pass on the bottle, and still have a decent time hanging out with them when they're all plastered?

[slimchance]

Hey Random- brave post. It may not be directly guitar related, but we all know that musicians do tend indulge, and when we go to work at a bar, there is always a lot of drinking, so the subject does deserve a discussion here. I can speak to this because I have had to address my own drinking over the years.

Unfortunately, if your friends are getting "plastered", then you may not be able to have a decent time hanging out with them if you are sober. The only people that enjoy the company of drunks are other drunks. If your friends are drinking responsibly, in moderation, then you'll be okay. If they're really tipping them back, then you won't get anything out of it as a non-drinker. I wonder whether your tendency to overindulge is related to the fact that you are hanging out with people who are drinking too much? Most people are able to have two or three beers and enjoy the social lubrication that comes from a low-key buzz. You might be able to establish a more healthy relationship with alchohol if you aren't hanging out with people who drink to get drunk.

I applaud your self-awareness. It is more important for you to avoid the pitfalls of alchohol abuse and dependency than it is for you to preserve relationships with friends who may not have the same mature outlook that you have, and who certainly don't have your best interests at heart if they are encouraging you to drink so much that you are blacking out. I don't have any solid advice for you, but if you are giving this some thought, then I am confident that you will choose your course of action with deliberation. If you have any specific questions, please feel free to reply here or send me a message.

(By the way, there's nothing worse than getting kicked out of a band because you drink too much and your playing suffers. It's really freaking humliating. Think about that.....)

[UnklMickey]

Slim,

really good advice!



alcohol is a tricky drug in many ways.

some people are pre-disposed to alcoholism. for them not drinking at all is the ONLY way.

RandomHero, i'm sure that you are wise enough, even at your age, to stay completely away from driving (or getting into a car driven by your drunken friends) when you do drink. so i won't bother to elaborate on that.

Because alcohol absorbs slowly into the bloodstream, it is difficult to know when to stop. by the time you start to "feel it" you probably have already consumed enough, that you'll be drunk a half-hour later.

Learning to drink responsibly would be an appropriate activity for a young person and their parent. but that just doesn't seem to happen.

it's always better to err on the side of caution. so stopping completely is not a bad plan at all.

if you're not having much fun with your friends, when they're drinking and you're not. live with it. some of them will be gone before you know it. no amount of preaching or pleading with them will change that. period.

If you want to learn to drink responsibly on your own, i would suggest, putting yourself in a safe environment. one that would not require driving, or dangerous public situations. have EXACTLY one drink. not one or two, ONE. pay attention to how it affects your reasoning, judgment, and motor skills. (your ability to MOVE, not your ability to DRIVE. i'm sure you knew what i meant, but in case someone else is reading this...) the next time, whether it be days, a week or a month later, have exactly TWO. and assess the affect over the evening. each experiment should be separated by a day, if not longer.

eventually, you will have a clue, as to how much you can drink, while maintaining some level of sanity.

But remember, that will change, depending on how hot it is, how tired you are, how much you have eaten, etc.

but at least you'll have a clue.

now you'll be able to decide, if you want to stay sober, loosen up, or get blotto.

if you can make a conscious decision before hand and stick to it, you will be able to use alcohol. if you start out with a plan to have two drinks, and then switch to soft drinks, but find yourself having more, you're better off quitting entirely.


anyway, that's my theory, and i'm sticking to it!

(borderline alcoholic at age 18.
i now consume, on average, a case of beer.....................................................per year!)




unk

[Mini-Strat_Maine]

Please excuse any "preachiness" that creeps in here. I'll try not to do that.
There are people in this world for whom "one drink is too many, and ten aren't enough." I was one of them, albeit at a later age than you. I quit "cold turkey" as part of a move to a new area, well away from my old haunts. That was thirteen years ago (next month), although I don't know the exact date and don't really recall making a conscious decision to quit. (The "one day at a time" maxim is a good one.)
The support of my family and friends made it much easier. Some of what they had done before my great awakening might be called "enabling," but it kept me alive long enough for me to pull my head out of the warm, dark place where it had been for more than a decade.
I've been to one A.A. meeting, with my older stepson, and something discussed that night was "controlled drinking." Somebody asked something to the effect of would it be okay to try limiting themself to one or two drinks. The consensus was that it usually won't work out. Nobody came right out and said it was a bad idea, but my impression was that nobody else was going to risk it.

As U.M. pointed out, it's hard to "just say no" when it's all around you. I have read (and seen first-hand) that in relationships where both parties are alcoholics, they tend to encourage each other to drink. There's no funnel or anything like that involved, but maybe each feels that in order to deal with their S.O., they're going to have to be inebriated, too. Whatever the psycholgy behind it, it ain't healthy. Along those lines, maybe some of your friends are in some kind of "misery loves company" mode.
These days, I can still go out to a bar and watch a band or spend all night at karaoke, but there's a diet cola (often free after the first one) in my hand. I may still get annoyed at the behavior of certain other patrons, but I'm not likely to get in a fight with one (or more) of them. (And I'm not being "Billy with the beer goggles on," either.) It feels much better to not wake up feeling like I'm gonna die, and afraid I won't die.

Anyway, I'm babbling again. In short, what you're doing now may still be "just a bad habit." Now would be the time to conquer it, before it becomes a physical addiction.
I may not have any real answers for you, but I'll be here to "listen."
Recognizing that there is a problem is the first step to correcting it.

[vroom]

I'm staying away from the stuff, and I live in a dorm. So you know that it's all around me.

You have to decide what you stand for. I can't stand drunks; people are dumb enough sober! Becoming one of them is the last thing I want to do.

So, if you decide to call it quits completely, know that there are others out there. You'll find company on either side of the fence. Granted, house parties may not be the same if you abstain, so you'll just have to use the free time... to practice guitar!

[RandomHero]

Herein lies the bigger problem, though. I'm sure enough that I can make it clear to the heavier drinking friends of mine that I don't want to drink. I know at least one of them will respect it (on the premise of being older and more mature.)

My cousin, who's been my best friend since we were both in diapers, and is now the only prospective "band" member with whom I regularly exchange musical ideas, is an alcoholic through and through. He's got a mini fridge stocked with beer in his college dorm on a regular basis, and is drinking on a daily basis as well.

Alcohol isn't the only substance he abuses, and he doesn't have a level head on him at all when he drinks. Driving and the like isn't beyond him. I do my %ed best to stay away from situations the require me to depend on him for a ride anywhere, anymore, because chances are about 50/50 he'll be drunk.

I can't bring myself to seperate from him over it, but I can't get it through his thick skull that he's headed down the wrong path. The guy's a genius, taking courses for engineering, he just doesn't have much stock in himself.

[UnklMickey]

admin said:

...I can't get it through his thick skull that he's headed down the wrong path. The guy's a genius, taking courses for engineering, he just doesn't have much stock in himself.

been there, done that, burned the t-shirt.


you will NEVER get it through his thick skull!

he, and only he, will be able to come to that conculsion, on his own.

the best you can do, is live your life on your own terms. quietly walk away from situations that aren't right. separate you feelings toward his behavior, from those of him as a person. you will no doubt, love him as a brother for the rest of your life. but remain firm on the intention to walk away when you need to. not because you're angry at his behavior, because it isn't healthy for you to be there when he's being that way.

these situations are always tough to deal with. it won't be easy.

lead by example, but don't expect him to follow soon, if ever.
maybe, just maybe, eventually he'll do some soul-searching. then, it would be helpful to him, if you were still emotionally on good terms, even though you hadn't been hanging with him and his crowd.

surround yourself with the friends you already have, that have similar values, and be open to making new ones that do.


unk

[mlrpa]

Randomhero, I am amazed at your maturity, and the caring you have for your friend! It may sound cruel, but you can't worry about him, until you get your own problem taken care of. It's possible that you can lead by example, but that will only happen if he want's to change.

[ChrisK]

In the end (and the beginning), the choices that we make and hence the history that we create is solely our responsibility.

If you don't want to drink in excess - don't. If you can't not drink in excess, don't drink at all.

If you can't not drink when around certain folk, don't go there.

You have to choose what you want.

Now, having a bipolar father (who self-medicated w/ alcohol as many good bipolar's do), I was blessed w/ a strong bias against drinking, so I'm lucky. It's not that I haven't ever drank (and self-medicated) excessively, I was in the Army and grew up in the latter 60's. Its just that I was struck by the absolute stupidity of what I was doing and the widespread general depression of those around me doing the same.

I found positive things that I loved to do (it didn't hurt that I got into microprocessor system design in the early 70's and got to make a career doing start-up companies). Many of these things have come and gone over the years, but they sustain me. They are in essence "thought drugs" in that I can't wait to return to thinking about them (one of them is guitar/wiring design and building).

I got married. I meant what I said in my vows (it was no longer "about me"). We had two kids (it definitely was no longer "about me"). They've graduated college and moved on w/ their lives.

It's still not about me. It's about the foundation that we all create for future history.

I've interviewed many of those that thought college was a party. None of them could remember many of the tenants of engineering. They were just "warm bodies" and I hired none of them.

I hired those that had a plan, were self-starters, who took seriously that they were going to college for their future. I had no choice, I was going to have to depend on them.

Life is a series of phases. The very fact that you've posted what you did indicates that you're ready to move on. Move on!

In the end, we are who we choose to be.

I wish you the absolute best of luck.

BTW, luck is when preparation meets opportunity.

[wolf]

Well, this is a little more difficult than answering the usual "series / parallel" switching question. (Hope you didn't mind my attempt at humor right there).

RandomHero I admire your bravery and honesty for making that posting. I (luckily) never had a problem with alcohol or drugs and my friends never made me feel like an outcast for not over-indulging in either. Everyone knew I was a guitar player and just that fact alone was good enough to move me up several rungs on the "coolness" ladder.

Don't forget that you have one of the "coolest" hobbies you can possibly have as a young adult !! How many times has being a guitar player ever worked against you? I know in my case that being a guitar player made me popular enough so that I was not a pariah.

If you see "School of Rock", Jack Black makes a good speech to a young overweight girl who suddenly gets stage fright. He says people don't care if Aretha Franklin is overweight because she can sing and people want to be around her so they can parrrrrrr - teeeeee !!!

And heck, you are the moderator of a highly regarded message board.

Okay, I guess that's not exactly the most professional advice but still I hope you at least keep it in mind (as well as all the replies from the other Guitar Nuts).

When Stevie Ray Vaughn finally got "clean" I believe he said "I've learned that you don't have to live the blues in order to play the blues".

[dunkelfalke]

chrisk said:

In the end (and the beginning), the choices that we make and hence the history that we create is solely our responsibility.

If you don't want to drink in excess - don't. If you can't not drink in excess, don't drink at all.

If you can't not drink when around certain folk, don't go there.

You have to choose what you want.

exactly that. if you don't want to drink, just don't drink. your friends cannot force you to and if they try just tell them to fsck off.

[mike]

I didn't read everyone elses response. I started drinking at 13. Bought my first beer at 13 out of the Coke machine at the local Volenteer Fire Dept. From then until I was 20 I was drunk every weekend. I would drink til I puked (overdose) and then drink some more. I didn't drink during the week and basically only on Friday and Saturday night, however Friday night often turned into Saturday night.

When I join the Air Force at age 20, I was ready for a change. I met with my recruiter and answered all of his questions honestly. I had to talk to a shrink while taking my physical who basically explained to me that I was in fact an alcoholic and he didn't give me much of a chance. The kind of thing that at 20 freaked me out, because without having all the details he explain to me exactly how I was living and from there told me where I was going.

It got my attention and I quit drinking and when my friends tried to get me to drink I got mad and told them to F U because I wasn't going down in flames drowning in a bottle.

That was 23 years ago and I certainly do not reqret the change in my life. I did not try to change anyone else, I put all my effort into me.

Today, my job involves working with and trying to help drug addicts and alcoholic. I've watched people the same age I am od and die quickly and I've watched people die slowly over a couple years. I discuss with them their history of substance abuse and in many of them I see me as a young 13 year old, only with them, for some reason, they didn't stop. I test many for drug use, and a real attention getter is when your wittnessing someone provide a urine screen for testing and they hand you a cup of dark bloody piss.

When I see that, I think I dam glad I told people to screw off all those years ago. I encourage you to make a stand for yourself and change your direction. One more thing, when you are sober, the worse thing in the world is being around drunks. It will turn your stomach and you will look for better people to hang around with. I encourage you to make your stand. God Speed.

[pollyshero]

The fact that you recognize the problem (especially at your age) is a clear indication that you already know the right thing to do. You are wise beyond your years and should be applauded! (CLAPCLAPCLAP!!!!!!!!!)

Now for the hard part - going ahead and doing it.

For yourself: just remind yourself BEFORE you go out to limit yourself, or abstain totally. Your choice. Don't EVER worry about what anyone else thinks of your choice not to get plastered. If they have a problem with it, no matter how good a friend they appear to be now, then they ain't really a friend and they aren't worth your time.

For your friend: spend as much time as you feel you can afford advising him of the perils of what he's doing to himself, but always remember that whatever he does is HIS choice. It's hard to watch a dear friend self-destruct - but you've got to remember that beyond letting him know that you care, there's nothing else you can do to change his behavior. You can create conditions that may make him want to change, but HE's the one who does the changing. Not you.

That said - I commend you for your maturity and honesty with yourself (and us), and wish you well in your efforts.

With all my heart - GOOD LUCK!