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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2011 4:14:49 GMT -5
If you are interested in testing the idea of a no-load tone pot, the easiest way to hear the effect is to disconnect one end of your standard tone pot. Then put it back after if you wish. if you like it, you can then buy one or make one. The bought ones (I think - ive never seen one)) have a slight detent before the no-load part, while ones that you make would not. great, so one would use two extension wires, one from the switch and the other from the tone pot (the neck in my case, because this is where all yngwie action takes place ;D ) and test-drive the idea by connecting/disconnecting in real playing conditions !! thanx! |
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Post by stringbean on Feb 19, 2011 23:17:37 GMT -5
ok.. Now I'm REAlly confused ! hehe.. Sometimes it feels like I stay that way. First time here at GN2. I found out about GN1 years ago, and even though I'm not very good with electronics, I've wanted to try to shield my guitars ever since. Seemed simple enough, and all I really wanted to do was the basic re-wiring job; install the star ground and the 0.33 capacitor, do the shielding, and call 'er quits. So I finally got around to it a couple weeks ago, and was happily amazed to see that the GN1 page was still there. At the time, I had no idea that GN1 went defunct, or that GN2 existed, so I bumbled on, collected the required tools and materials, all but the 0.33 capacitor. Couldn't find that guy ANywhere. So then, I bumbled around some more, and bumbled into GN2. Sure was happy to see this!! It's great to see that the forum survives, and I know someone here will be able to point me at a current source, but now it seems that I have another small problem.
As I poked around here, looking for the right place to jump in and ask some questions, I came across " The Blocking Capacitor". As I said, I ain't great with electronics, but if I got it right, we're no longer removing the ground wires that run from pot shell to pot shell as on stock Strats, which is kind of a drag, cuz when I started to follow the old shielding instructions a couple weeks ago, that's exactly how far I got. I snipped those suckers off, and then decided that I better start looking for the 0.33 cap. hehe.. I know.
So I'm hoping that you guys can set me straight here. Seems that I've over-bumbled. I'm ok with an iron, for simple connections, but I've never tried to melt a giant glop of solder like the ones on the shells of the guitar I'm working on now, and I'd be a bit worried about damaging them before I could reattach the two jumpers. Did I get that right? That we're leaving the jumpers connected now? Is it imperative that I reconnect them somehow? With ring connectors under the posts perhaps? Or can I just proceed with the original schematic, leave the jumpers off, and go from there..
aaand one more question, if I haven't already worn out my welcome. I still need a source for the 0.33 cap. I did find a couple, but they're the cylindrical type, and it seems that they might take up a lot of room in the cavity. I guess what I need is the thin, "waffer type" metal film capacitor? Is that even the right term? hehe.. Amadope..
It really was great to see this site alive and well, and I'm sure I'll be spending many hours here now, trying to catch up with you guys, but I'm really starting to miss my Strat ! If someome could just get me rolling again, it sure will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
stringbean
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Post by newey on Feb 19, 2011 23:58:10 GMT -5
stringbean- Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2! .33µf 400V CapacitorI don't know that these are available in a non-cylindrical form factor. A cap rated at 400V isn't going to be tiny. You can, if you wish, continue to use the original G-Nuts1 directions and diagram as is. John Atchley, the original G-Nut, was somewhat nuts about eliminating ground loops. As ChrisK pointed out in the article you referenced on "The Blocking Capacitor", not all those inter-pot connections are ground loops, and even the ones that are don't necessarily need to be eliminated. The consensus seems to be that ground loops are unlikely to contribute much to noise. But it certainly is a better practice to eliminate them. So no worries that you already clipped the wires. |
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Post by stringbean on Feb 20, 2011 1:40:58 GMT -5
wow. That's a relief newey ! Thanks for doing such a great job of explaining that to me. Kinda funny that you sent me to PE. The cap I was considering is made by Auricap, and I found it there too. The Auricap is about 10 times more expensive, but they're still only 12 bucks each. Any reason that you can see for the extra outlay?
stringbean
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Post by newey on Feb 20, 2011 1:55:00 GMT -5
No reason for the extra outlay. Remember, this is just for protection from certain voltage mishaps and doesn't play any role in the sound of your guitar.
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Post by stringbean on Feb 20, 2011 4:38:50 GMT -5
gotcha. Thanks again newey. I really appreciate it.
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Post by gumbo on Feb 20, 2011 5:19:18 GMT -5
....plus, if you're playing through a non-tube amp, it may be something that isn't that important in the overall scheme of things....
...like,get everything else working first and enjoy the Strat again!!!
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Post by stringbean on Feb 20, 2011 15:46:57 GMT -5
This thread is facinating !!! hmm.. Did I do the italisis right? I guess I'll know when I hit "post". I've got a lot to learn about all the forum posting tricks, like how newey posted a live link for me here, to PE.. . I've got one more quick question here about caps, for now, so I'm gonna go ahead and try it. 0.022uF 200V Polyester Film Capacitor I figure that if I'm going to make an order with PE anyway for the 0.33uf caps, and because I eventually intend to shield 4 guitars, for starters, then I might as well go ahead and order some better caps for the tone controls too. So, I managed to cut and paste the above from the PE page that I was looking at, but it sure doesn't look like a live link at this point.. How do you guys do that? And more importantly, would this cap be a good basic upgrade for my guitars? ( The MIM I'm working on now, a Squire, a Strat knockoff and a Squire Tele ) Just for starters? This thread is facinating !!! (maybe that'll work) Just as soon as I can find the time, I've just GOT to start at the beginning, and really get down to the business of experimenting with different values, so that I can tune up the electronics on my guitars, and make them sound just exactly the way I want them to. Or maybe I'll try to get sumgai's address, so that I can move in next door, and pick his massive brain, fulltime! hehe.. Just kidding. No need to send the stalker police.  I really do wanna do this, get serious about experimentation with capacitors, but right now I'm swamped with work, FINally setting up my home studio, writing, puuRACticing, and doing a basic shielding job on my favorite Strat, so that'll have to wait a while. Right now all I've got for amps is a little SCXD with one 12AX7 in it, aaaand I'm learning how to use a PODxd for recording purposes, ( I know ) , but I do plan on getting another old Twin Reverb or the like one of these days and try to do an overhaul myself, and I'm also playing out a bit more these days, so the idea of some protection against electrocution sounds awful good. In fact that's the main reason that I decided to revisit GN1, and get myself busy. It'll be great if I can lose some hum, but I've been a conduit for 110V more times than I care to remember, and once got tossed across a room and up against a block wall by 440. ( on the job, not by musical equipment) Not a happy memory, or one that I'd care to re-live. ..  hehe.. anyway. That's my story. Once again, can't say how great it is to see this page alive and well! Hopin' to hang around when I can. Thanks again for the help! stringbean |
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Post by stringbean on Feb 20, 2011 18:23:57 GMT -5
aaand no. It didn't post as a live link. Maybe the wife can teach me that. Anyway, I was looking at an 0.022uf 200V Ployester Film Cap made by Xicon/Lelon, Part Number 020-1860 at Parts Express, just as a first step up from the stock tone caps that were OEM on my budget level Fender guitars. Good idea? Thanks again for the help.
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Post by stringbean on Feb 20, 2011 20:10:09 GMT -5
aaand I just realized that I walked in here and just tramped all over a pretty intense conversation. Please accept my humble apologies. I have much to learn. Please. Continue.
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Post by newey on Feb 20, 2011 21:46:35 GMT -5
Stringy-
To post a link, copy the url and paste it into your post. Highlight it and click on the globe icon above the message box on the Post Reply screen. It's the third one from the left on the lower row. This puts the url tags around your link.
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Post by stringbean on Feb 20, 2011 23:14:35 GMT -5
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Post by stringbean on Feb 20, 2011 23:15:48 GMT -5
HA ! aincha proud of me newey ?  |
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Post by stringbean on Feb 20, 2011 23:34:16 GMT -5
that went so well, I might as well try the IMG thing too..   |
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Post by stringbean on Feb 20, 2011 23:44:09 GMT -5
on a roll here now folks ! So the question was, would this: www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=020-1860be a good replacement for what I was just now unbelievably lucky enough to post in that picture? ( The part that was hidden by the highlight says " iC" .) and the rest of my budget guitars too? If so, I'll just get a bunch of em and get out of the way here, let you guys get back to headier matters. Once again, my sincere apologies. bean |
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Post by newey on Feb 20, 2011 23:46:23 GMT -5
Hey, stick around, we'll make a nut out of you yet . . . And to answer your question, the .022 cap is fine for a tone cap. Don't worry about upsetting this discussion of capacitors, it has meandered all over the place (and over several years as well). BTW, you can also embed links so that just the title shows, hiding the actual url. The formula is as follows, but substitute " [ " and " ] " where I have the brackets "{ " and " } ". {url= url you want is pasted here} Your Title Here{/url} |
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Post by stringbean on Feb 21, 2011 0:41:43 GMT -5
uuuuumm.. The .02 cap in my pic? or the one at Parts Express ? If there's any doubt at all, I'd just as soon go ahead and buy some decent tone caps now, while I'm ordering the 0.33's. I still have no idea at all what's inside of my OTher cheap guitars. It'll be good to just have some good parts on hand when I get around to opening them up.. .
I jotted down the "title only" formula, but posting that picture made me sleepy. ;D I'll try that out next time.
Sure do appreciate the help newey !
bean
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Post by newey on Feb 21, 2011 6:50:10 GMT -5
I was referring to the one from Parts Express. Your picture didn't appear, says it has been "moved or deleted" from Photobucket.
Once you link to a photo from photobucket, you have to keep the photo in the same folder, etc- you can't move it or the link is broken.
You can relink to it by just recopying the img code off photobucket, then come back here, hit the button to modify your post, and then paste it in again.
I use the "green chiclet" poly-film caps all the time, they're cheap and reliable. There's a lot of hype about tone caps out there and mostly it's nonsense.
You may want to pick up a variety of capacitance values for experimentation. The .022µf is what Fender uses for Strats with single coils, but many folks like a lesser value, down to .01 in some cases. For HBs, Gibson uses .047µf, but to me those have always sounded too dark; I think .033 is a better compromise for HBs.
But this is all largely (and within limits) a matter of taste in how you want your tone controls to work. Guitar manufacturers chose the values they chose to make the tone control sound like it's really doing something dramatic as you turn it down; a more subtle effect, leaving a bit more sparkle as the knob is turned down, is favored by some folks, who use a smaller value cap to get that effect.
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Post by stringbean on Feb 22, 2011 2:28:05 GMT -5
aaaaaYUP ! You nailed it newey. That's exactly what I did. I was gettin' all sporty with my new PhotoBucket page, and I moved the pics around to new files, aaaand, I broke the link. Should be back up now, although I thought I had a clearer pic than what I'm seeing there.. My own imagination, no doubt. I like PhotoBucket tho. Been using Picasa for about 4 years or so, but this seems like a more capable and user friendly program. The wife jumped on board, because she has a lot of stuff she wants to sell on ebay. Great options there for that purpose.. And I just went ahead and ordered a bunch of 0.22uf's, and a few 0.33's from PE. I've got a bunch of parts here that I want to install on my Mexicaster, as well as doing the shielding job, and I figure maybe I oughta stop there for now, with hopes that I might be able to know what improved what. I've got 5 new trem springs, a new steel trem block, Graph Tech saddles, Nut, and String Trees, and I have a new set of Fender locking tuners. ( Got the cool lookin' Fender logo on the lock knobs. wooee ! ) Also bought some Fender Strap Locks, so that I won't drop all this stuff on the ground. hehe The guitar came with the 6 screw trem plate, and I'm goin' for the full floating whammy. wooee again. Should be interesting setting that up ! One of these days though, when I don't have so much stuff that HAS TO BE DONE RIGHT NOW !! , I am definitely going to wanna do some experimenting with different caps, and custom parts and wiring. I don't think I've ever turned a tone control down on a Stratocaser, ever. Seems kinda silly to have holes in the pick guard with nuttin' useful sticking out.. Need to give that some thought, and I need to spend about 600 hours reading GN2 ! After that I guess I'll know exactly what I want to try first. Thanks again for all the help newey. If I have any problems with this shielding/wiring operation, can I find ya here? Or.. maybe some other thread ? Hope so. You da man with the answers ! bean |
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Post by gumbo on Feb 22, 2011 5:51:14 GMT -5
Good one, S-B, Just gotta work on focus now...  ..just kidding! ..well done...I've spent years on this forum avoiding having to post pix and links... ;D |
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Post by newey on Feb 22, 2011 6:41:14 GMT -5
The question of how much modding to do at once has come up before. With a Strat, the issue is compounded by the need to unstring and remove the pickguard in order to access the innards.
Because of that, with a Strat, I'd say go for it all at once.
Everything you have planned sounds good except that I would be leery of trying to replace a vintage-style trem with a 2-point floater. This is not an easy mod, since it involves drilling some holes into the front of your guitar, and the holes must be precisely placed.
If you don't have a drill press and a very good idea of what you're doing, I'd leave that mod to a professional, or leave it alone entirely.
Have you tried to set up the 6-screw trem properly? There's lots of good advice on that on our whammy page. Granted, it's not for dive bombs, but if you're into that sort of thing you'd probably want a Floyd (or similar) anyway.
And yes, please start a new thread in the appropriate place with any questions. We're getting somewhat afield from capacitors here, but this discussion got out of hand long ago. But a new thread is more likely to attract attention and get you answers.
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Post by stringbean on Feb 22, 2011 22:06:04 GMT -5
.. weeeell .. I think my family would tell you that I need to focus more on work, but yea man, as far as that pic goes, I do need to work more on focus ! hehe.. Somehow, I think I lost some resolution in the transfer there, but that was kind of an experiment anyway. I've had a camera with Macro settings on it for a long time now, but never really tried to use em before. It's like a whole new world of photography, and if I wasn't so busy with other things, I could definitely waste a LOT of time, just screwing around with that ! It's like having a portable microscope with a camera attached to it ! And it does feel pretty good to know how to use more of the tools that are available in forums like this, thanks to newey. Such a giant leap forward in communication, this inferwerks thing ! I mean, compared to the old days, when information traveled mostly by word of mouth, mouth being mostly on horse back, now, we can talk to people all over the world, and reach out one hand with links to websites just over-flowing with information, and the other with pertinent photographs, instantly.. . A giant leap forward for the "creative collective". Scratch one up for the Humans! Bout time I tried to get on board wif it.. Anyways, thanks for the props gumbo! I hadn't planned on changing over to a 2 screw bridge plate newey.. Would that even be a good idea? hmm.. I don't know. I've got a lot to learn about Fender trem units too.. . I can see your point about doing everything at once, but I don't mind taking things apart, and I figer that if I do this much, just for starters, and then find out what exactly the guitar can and cannot do, then I'll have a better idea of what I'd like to fix from there, and what exactly each new mod will do for me, without any confusion about what this mod did or didn't do for me. When I bought this guitar, the plate was screwed down hard, and the trem was completely inoperative. So for starters, I'd like to get rid of some hum, get the trem working, and then see how much I'll really use it with my style of playing. I've been playing blues lead for about.. scheesh.. nearly 40 years now, mostly with a Guild Starfire 4 (ES-335) that I bought new way back then, and I just never felt the need for a trem, but since this guitar has one that could be functional, I thought I'd give er a go. As for Divebombs? hehe.. I'm sure I'll try that, but mostly I'm just hoping for some effects that I can use in recordings, just to spice things up a bit, in non-blues music mostly. Ya know ya got yer two kinds of music in this world; there's yer Blues Music, and then there's yer Non-Blues music.. hehe.. But I gotcha there newey. I will start a new thread somewhere else, after I spend a couple hundred hours reading everything I can find about Whammy bars. So far I've been to Tiki Bars, Workin' Man's Bars and nudey bars, but Whammy Bars'll be a new one for me ! I'll just go ahead and wear my good hat.  Hope to see you guys there ! Thanks again for all the help newey. You've really been great. I shoulda come here years ago. stringbean |
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Post by newey on Feb 22, 2011 22:57:52 GMT -5
Sorry, I took that to mean you wanted to mount a 2-point floating trem. If you're not changing the type of tremolo, but just want to make the 6-screw unit functional, that can be done easily.
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popsaka
Meter Reader 1st Class
I'm tired a'playin' so low...
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Post by popsaka on Mar 10, 2011 14:47:52 GMT -5
momo, You've hit the motherload, to be sure.  That's exactly how most of us started out, cutting up old radios and such, and storing the proceeds in our 'junk boxes'. Hell, we're the original recyclers! ;D That domino thingie is either a mica or a molded capacitor, the 6 dots are the color code for its value, etc. Rather than my charting out in text form how the code works, here are a couple of good web pages with colorful diagrams and stuff: radioremembered.org/capcode.htm(easiest to understand, but not very far reaching) tpub.com/neets/book2/3g.htm(all kinds of capacitors) my.execpc.com/~endlr/markings.html(worldwide color codes) www.edasolutions.com/Groups/Tech/ComputerElectricalCalcs.htm(electrical engineering site, also has on-line calculators, definitions of various terminology, example circuits, etc.) You probably wanna bookmark all of these, ''especially the last one''. ;D HTH sumgai New link for EDA:http://www.edasolutions.com/old/Groups/Tech/ComputerElectricalCalcs.htm (popsaka) Amazing site, BTW... |
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Post by Glass Snuff on Mar 14, 2011 9:18:35 GMT -5
You may want to pick up a variety of capacitance values for experimentation. The .022µf is what Fender uses for Strats with single coils, but many folks like a lesser value, down to .01 in some cases. For HBs, Gibson uses .047µf, but to me those have always sounded too dark; I think .033 is a better compromise for HBs. Crikey, I hate to correct you, newey, but Fender used .047s in the '50s, and now mostly uses .022s. Gibson has always used .022s. But this is all largely (and within limits) a matter of taste in how you want your tone controls to work. Guitar manufacturers chose the values they chose to make the tone control sound like it's really doing something dramatic as you turn it down; a more subtle effect, leaving a bit more sparkle as the knob is turned down, is favored by some folks, who use a smaller value cap to get that effect. Very true. I myself prefer .015s on any guitar as they give more of a peak when rolled all the way off, more of a muted, rather than a muffled sound. It's a change I highly recommend to anyone that 'doesn't use their tone control' since it makes the knob much more useful, IMHO. |
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Post by newey on Mar 14, 2011 14:48:25 GMT -5
Why? Everyone else seems to enjoy it! And I usually give plenty of opportunities! No, you are correct, I misspoke on Gibson, and Fender did use the higher values way back when. What I should have said was that .047 was a conventional wisdom value for HBs. I don't know that Gibby hasn't used other values as well, at least on their basses; seems to me that an EBO I saw back when used an .033. |
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zirltzn
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Post by zirltzn on Apr 1, 2011 1:59:43 GMT -5
But feel free to ask questions (about capacitors) here in this thread, someone will answer them as ASAP as possible. sumgai i recently tried out a schematic here from John H. i originally used 2 x .022 sozo caps off each tone pot (strat). i'm using 2 HH's from separate shops and found a .022 sozo makes the bridge pup sound better than the .022. q1. why is that? also using a 1nF on vol pot for treble bleed. q2. what exactly does this cap do to help with the treble bleed? |
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Post by newey on Apr 1, 2011 5:20:41 GMT -5
JohnH's post on "A better treble bleed circuit" explains it better than I ever could. As for your first question, I'm not clear on what exactly you mean. Are you asking about a differing effect from the same type/value of cap on 2 different pickups? Or about 2 different caps on the same pickup? |
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zirltzn
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Post by zirltzn on Apr 1, 2011 14:21:36 GMT -5
JohnH's post on "A better treble bleed circuit" explains it better than I ever could. As for your first question, I'm not clear on what exactly you mean. Are you asking about a differing effect from the same type/value of cap on 2 different pickups? Or about 2 different caps on the same pickup? >>Are you asking about a differing effect from the same type/value of cap on 2 different pickups? yep, i have a general idea about caps but new to guitars and tones and such |
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5150
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Post by 5150 on May 15, 2011 22:05:30 GMT -5
I have two ideas to make changing the caps easier on a Strat. The first: remove the existing cap and run a shielded cable from the tone pot to the area under the back cover so the caps could be connected there and changed without pulling the strings off & removing the pick guard assembly. When you decide exactly which cap suits you best then take it apart and do the permanent install.
2nd: anyone tried a variable cap? I'm thinking mounted under the back cover .
As I posted in another thread, I rewired the bridge tone pot with the "Grease Bucket" caps/resistor combo and the neck tone pot with the standard .022uf. Middle pickup no tone control. I really like the tones.
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hehe..
