Tremolo System...? Confusion!

[The Doctor]

I just bought my first electric guitar... a 2002 Squire Strat.
I would like to find out how much it would cost to fit a trmolo system to it.

[dunkelfalke]

yes, confusion is right.
do you mean tremolo as real tremolo (alternating volume) or as vibrato (alternating pitch) wrongly described as tremolo?

if the second, then you should have one already, it is stock on almost all strats.
if the first one, buy a tremolo pedal or a multieffect floorboard.

[The Doctor]

I mean a whammy arm that moves the bridge to loosen and tighten the strings. My strat has the hole for the arm on the bridge, but I don't know how much it would cost to fit the whole system.

[RandomHero]

Oh! Seems someone shorted you a whammy bar.

If your strat has a hole on the bridge, it's already got a trem. To be doubly sure, take off the back plate. If there's springs in there (assuming there's a back plate) then you're good to go. Most guitar places will pawn you a whammy bar for a couple bucks, just be sure it'll fit your guitar before you buy it!

[The Doctor]

So if I unscrew the back plate, where should I look for the springs? Or will it be obvious when I open it?
Sorry for all these questions...

[dunkelfalke]

trust me, you won't miss the strings when you open the back plate.

be aware though, normal vintage vibrato will make your guitar out of tune instantly when you use it the way david gilmour does it.

[The Doctor]

Can't I get those things to put on the headstock, just above the nut that holds the strings in place and stop them from going out of tune?

How does Gilmour do it?....

[dunkelfalke]

well, he has guitar technicians (most notably phil taylor) who file his nut perfectly, install him best tuners, screw the vibrato system really tight and so on and so on. and even then the system is not optimal.

you can update your guitar with a better vibrato system (wilkinson), graphtech nut, locking tuners and roller string trees, then you'll be able to use it properly, but it is actually cheaper to buy a new guitar - cort g250 - with all those things already installed - and the guitar would be much better than your squire. that axe is the best strat copy for the money.

being a fellow floyd (and gilmour) fan i can only say this: don't try to copy his gear, copy his godlike playing style on a more comfortable gear instead.

[The Doctor]

I'm not out to copy Gilmour's gear.... I couldn't afford to if I wanted to.
I just wanted to find out about getting a vibrato / tremolo arm and equipment fitted... I'm not going to saw the arm in half like Dave used to.

[dunkelfalke]

well, then you just need the vibrato arm, and that's it.
just wanted to warn you that the vintage vibrato sucks ;-)

btw shortening the arm actually makes sense

[The Doctor]

Yeah, I have played Strats with vibratos and apparently shortening the arm makes it easier to hold the arm and strum / pick at the same time.

[ChrisK]

OK DOKEY,

TREMOLO IS AMPLITUDE VARIATION AS IN AM RADIO (Amplitude Modulation).

VIBRATO IS FREQUENCY VARIATION AS IN FM RADIO (Frequency Modulation).

Many folk today use the wrong term inadvertently. Unfortunately so did (Leo) Fender, who probably started the whole mess.

Fender have guitars with frequency modulating bridges mislabeled as TREMOLOs except when they actually (rarely) get it right when talking about Fender guitars that have Bigsby VIBRATOs on them (both produce an identical frequency modulating effect).

Fender have amplifiers with amplitude modulating circuits with mislabeled VIBRATO-derived names (VibroLux/VibroKing et al) except when they get it right when talking about the Fender amps that have actual TREMOLO controls on them to control the TREMOLO.

I mean a whammy arm that moves the bridge to loosen and tighten the strings. My Squier Strat has the hole for the arm on the bridge, but I don't know how much it would cost to fit the whole system.

You need the vibrato arm for the Squier vibrato. If you have the hole, you have the vibrato bridge.

So if I unscrew the back plate, where should I look for the springs? Or will it be obvious when I open it?

Why do you think that you have to "open it"? The vibrato arm is threaded and screws in to the hole on the bridge (clockwise).

normal vintage vibrato will make your guitar out of tune

Vintage vibrato's only work well when they're set against the body and are used to detune the strings lower in pitch. Otherwise, tuning stability is a moving target.

Can't I get those things to put on the headstock, just above the nut that holds the strings in place and stop them from going out of tune?

The string trees don't stop the string from going out of tune, they ensure adequate downward pressure on the string in the nut to prevent buzzing in the nut or a tinny sound.

[UnklMickey]

chrisk said:

...Vintage vibrato's only work well when they're set against the body and are used to detune the strings only. .. .

Chris, i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you mean "downtune"? (don't know if that's a real word.)

in a rigid sense, detune could mean up OR down..... just not AT the proper tuning.

chrisk said:

Can't I get those things to put on the headstock, just above the nut that holds the strings in place and stop them from going out of tune?

The string trees don't stop the string from going out of tune, they ensure adequate downward pressure on the string in the nut to prevent buzzing in the nut or a tinny sound.

i think he might be talking about a locking nut.

chrisk said:

OK DOKEY,

TREMOLO IS AMPLITUDE VARIATION AS IN AM RADIO (Amplitude Modulation).

VIBRATO IS FREQUENCY VARIATION AS IN FM RADIO (Frequency Modulation).

Many folk today use the wrong term inadvertently. Unfortunately so did (Leo) Fender, who probably started the whole mess.

he probably did.......

and you probably can't change things now, even if you go nucular.

[dunkelfalke]

and you probably can't change things now, even if you go nucular.

you can't but you always can try. when i teach guitar or when i give guitar buying recommendations i always try to use the correct vocabulary and pass it on others.

maybe if everyone did it, a critical mass (nucular hehe) would build up someday.

[ChrisK]

i think he might be talking about a locking nut.

?Anybody ever use a locking nut with a vintage vibrato (sans fine tuners)?

The very act of locking the nut will cause all strings to go slightly sharp (in varying degree).

[UnklMickey]

chrisk said:

i think he might be talking about a locking nut.

?Anybody ever use a locking nut with a vintage vibrato (sans fine tuners)?

The very act of locking the nut will cause all strings to go slightly sharp (in varying degree).

to the best of my knowledge, not successfully.


but given:

dyolf said:

I just bought my first electric guitar... a 2002 Squire Strat.
I would like to find out how much it would cost to fit a trmolo system to it.

and:

dyolf said:

I mean a whammy arm that moves the bridge to loosen and tighten the strings. My strat has the hole for the arm on the bridge, but I don't know how much it would cost to fit the whole system.

and:

dyolf said:

So if I unscrew the back plate, where should I look for the springs? Or will it be obvious when I open it?
Sorry for all these questions...

when he asks:

dyolf said:

Can't I get those things to put on the headstock, just above the nut that holds the strings in place and stop them from going out of tune?...

this:

unklmickey said:

i think he might be talking about a locking nut.

is a plausible, if not likely, possibility.



without making any value judgments, or casting aspersions on this newbie, i'll just say:

unfamiliar is.

[RandomHero]

A -properly- installed, high quality locking nut will not alter the pitch of the stings once clamped. This has mostly to do with the break angle of the strings over the headstock side of the nut, and placement of the string retainer.

However, while using it on a vintage vibrato system guitar might eliminate slips from the headstock side of the guitar, the only thing keeping 28 of those 29 parts of your bridge in their carefully calibrated position is the tension of the strings. Over time, or with one bombastic dive bomb, you'd still need to retune. Except now there would be that damn locking nut in your way, too.

I'm personally interested in a locking-nut equipped guitar with a fine-tuner equipped hardtail. But that's me. =D

[dunkelfalke]

well, why not build it yourself?

[RandomHero]

If I could find a 7-string fine-tuner hardtail bridge, I'd be all over it!

[dunkelfalke]

ah, yes. you are a 7-string-player.
too bad, i have seen a 6-string strat with a locking nut and a finetuner bridge on ebay.

[ChrisK]

A -properly- installed, high quality locking nut will not alter the pitch of the strings once clamped. This has mostly to do with the break angle of the strings over the headstock side of the nut, and placement of the string retainer.

The fine tuners wouldn't be there in the first place if'n there weren't a reason (industry, cheap, is).



Maybe you could modify a 7 string Floyd Rose bridge and remove the spring connecting extension into the body.

I'm most unfamiliar with Floyd's (after my time), but on a Fender vibrato removing the (usually) cast string end/spring attachment block will render a flat plate that could be mounted on a flat surface using the existing aforementioned block attachment holes.

On a TOM STP setup, the Gib$on fine tune tailpiece works well (see Lucille, she'll show you).

[dunkelfalke]

depends on the floyd rose manufacturer. on the floyd rose systems i know the sustain block exists only for spring attachment and can be removed.

[ChrisK]

Hmmm, sounds like a (Random) research project!

[momo]

Hello there. I cant answer for the locking nut, but I had a couple years ago tried the short arm Gilmour style. Well the first thing is that you need to apply alot more force to do the bends, not bad if your light on strings, but with a heavy setup, the extra effort took a long time getting used to. Bieng subtle was the hardest... I gave up on that maybe 2 weeks after playing with it.