truss-rod adjustment

[prshott]

Hello guitar friends! I have just put my strat back together after a year of being apart doing wiring mods (none of which worked) and traded away my yngwie scalloped neck for a regular type. After reassembly, and adding heavier strings, I think I need to adjust my neck. It has a slight dip at the 7th to 9th frets and I get string buzz at anything higher than the 9th fret. My dilemma is that my saddles are already maxed out in height, and flattening out the neck would just draw them closer to the frets right? Also working against me is that I have a mighty-mite neck, and I don't recall seeing and adjustment screw when I had it off. I took the pick guard off and it looks like I would have to take the whole neck off the guitar to adjust Any suggestions would help me keep from setting this thing out with next weeks trash!
Thanks, Phil

[sumgai]

Phil,

Well, it ain't easy to diagnose what can't be seen, but in general, if your bridge height adjustments are maxed out, then you'll have to take the neck off anyway, and insert a shim in the neck pocket, like this:



That black thing is about the thickness of a business card. I've seen as many as two cards stacked together in there, but most luthiers feel that's too much, and indicates other problems that should be addressed/corrected.

Note that one of the screwholes is covered, and the other one isn't. This is just a matter of where the shim shifted itself to before the neck was mounted. Don't let your home-made shim get any wider than from the wall of the pocket to the middle of the screw holes, or it will reduce the shimming effect.

Beyond that, I've never seen a Mighty Mite neck that didn't have a truss rod adjustment. If yours truly doesn't have one, and it has the Mighty Mite name on it, then you might wanna have a talk with those folks.

Last item...... In general, don't adjust truss rods more than a quarter turn at a time. Let things settle, with the axe tuned to pitch, for a day between each adjustment. You'll find that if you go too far in one whack, the next morning you'll wake up to find your axe doing a very good impression of a pretzel!

At that point, you'll just have to wait again for things to loosen/tighten as you re-adjust the rod back to where it was. Net result: wasted time. Might as well see what you get from small steps, eh?

Most of the time, a single quarter turn does the trick, with perhaps an eighth turn one way or the other needed to dial it in just right. Max delay should be no more than two days before you fell like it's the best it can be.

If this didn't help, then we'll need to talk about frets. Don't worry, that's easier than it sounds, and we've already discussed it here in the Lutherie section, so there's a wealth of good info for you to dig into. ;D

HTH

sumgai

[prshott]

Thanks sumgai, you really are some guy! You have a wealth of knowlege and I thank you for sharing it!

[sumgai]

Phil,

Thanks sumgai, you really are some guy! You have a wealth of knowlege and I thank you for sharing it!

You're most welcome. ;D

But you know, sometimes it's just a matter of hacking around on the innerweb, and you tend to come up with all kinds of information. The usefulness remains to be seen though.


sumgai

[prshott]

Sumgai, as an afterthought, should I be kinder-gentler to my neck and go to 9's instead of 11's ? and also should I shim close to pickguard or closer to headstock?
Thanks, Phil

[sumgai]

Phil,

Sumgai, as an afterthought, should I be kinder-gentler to my neck and go to 9's instead of 11's - and also should I shim close to pickguard or closer to headstock?
Thanks, Phil

The gauge of your strings will have no effect on how long the wood lives. Necks have been made in the current manner for over a century, and back then there were no steel strings at all.

With the much lower overall string tension, a nylon strung acoustic guitar could easily shave half the wood away from the back of the neck, and still work quite nicely. However, there's a real danger in the wood being able to absorb moisture from the air, and responding to that by warping.

That, coupled with how a hand shapes itself around a neck, is why necks are made as they are. The truss rod was introduced to allow steel strings to be used. Remember, at that time, steel strings were made in the same size/gauge as nylon strings currently in use. That equates to what we now call 13's or 14's!

Some custom neck makers will install graphite rods alongside of, or instead of, truss rods. Really long-time guitarists will recall the Travis Bean guitar, with a neck made of aluminum and graphite - no rods at all, and zero warpage. Slicker 'n snot, a shredder's dream...... oh wait, they were too heavy, even as thin as they were. All graphite necks can be found, if you search hard enough. The problem now is, they're almost uniformly too expensive to compete in the market, so you'll probably only find them as part of a very custom guitar, and not as a separate replacement item.

I wouldn't bother with "being kind to the neck", I'd string it up for the tone I want, and be happy knowing that the wood will stand up to this for many years. After all, Fender's first 13 years of guitar production were sold with 12's, up until CBS bought out Leo. If you look at one of those guitars today (after paying your 40 grand entrance fee!!!), you'll note the neck is straight and true, and a dream to play. There's a reason for that, and I think we've just covered it.


Shims are always set into the pocket as far as they can go, as pictured. I suppose it could go on the edge toward the headstock, but that would really indicate a problem, most likely pointing to a bad design, or a quality control issue during manufacturing. At that point, a quality luthier would be highly recommended. Note, however, that some custom body makers will shave the pocket at a slope, usually in conjunction with the vibrato route being set up for a Floyd Rose or a Wilkenson style floating bridge. They anticipate maximum wood-to-wood contact, no shimming should be required. But that's still the exception to normal practice, so they'll be more expensive.

HTH


sumgai

[Ripper]

prshott...
All that praise!......Youre going to give our beloved Sumgai a big head!

[benjy304]

All graphite necks can be found, if you search hard enough. The problem now is, they're almost uniformly too expensive to compete in the market, so you'll probably only find them as part of a very custom guitar, and not as a separate replacement item.

The only all-graphite replacement necks I know of are from a company called Moses Graphite:www.mosesgraphite.com/

[prshott]

Let me tell ya what I did....(before I red sumgai's post) I removed my strings and my neck was straight! so I removed my neck anyway, adjusted the screw counter closkwise 1/4 turn just incase it was what I though to be too much string tension (my daddarios listed string size as well as tension) then I cut a business card in half, shimed the neck and reinstalled with #9 strings (lighter tension I supposed) Well my strings definately clear the last fret but the "releif" is back again! not so bad, ok i guess its bad, but now I'm more comflusterated! Time for a pro???

[hammeroff]

Here's a small bit of info I have from dealing with a neck with shot frets.

I had a Squire neck with horribly shot frets, the rest of the squire guitar went under a major project, anyway there was a period where everything was done, and I was waiting for my new Warmoth neck. Naturally...on goes the Squire neck ;D

Anyway, the only way I found to deal with the horrible amount of fret buzz, was to jack up the action, and slide 2 chunks of "Magic: The Gathering" cards (don't knock it till you tried it!) under the front of the neck pocket.

At one point all this was Greek to me to...this website from Athens helped a lot: (I love bad jokes) www.athensmusician.net/archive/2001-05-01_geneimbody1.php

[prshott]

Thanks Hammeroff, for the insight, as well as the link!

[sumgai]

Phil,

Let me tell ya what I did....(before I red sumgai's post) I removed my strings and my neck was straight! so I removed my neck anyway, adjusted the screw counter closkwise 1/4 turn just incase it was what I though to be too much string tension (my daddarios listed string size as well as tension) then I cut a business card in half, shimed the neck and reinstalled with #9 strings (lighter tension I supposed) Well my strings definately clear the last fret but the "releif" is back again! not so bad, ok i guess its bad, but now I'm more comflusterated! Time for a pro???

Your thinking and methodolgy are good, you simply overcompensated for the lower string tension. Next time you're in there, re-tighten the adjusting screw an eighth turn and see if that helps. You may find yourself going back and forth a few times, in smaller increments, until you are satisfied.

Also, whenever you change string gauges like this, you should let the neck settle in for a couple of days before adjusting it to the new tension level.

No luthier is needed as of this time, only patience.


sumgai

[prshott]

OK everyone, problem solved! my neck is straight and strings have even clearance. I had removed my neck for the umpteenth time, turned out to be made made by WD and not mitey mite, I used the info from the website provided in hammeroff's comment and turned my trussrod adjustment screw back the quarter turn clockwise, then one half turn more, as I was sliding the neck back in the pocket, it hit the pickguard, now before you verbally dress me down, my previous neck had plenty of clearance over the pickguard, and this neck, I guess I had laid it in the pocket, rather than slid it in checking for fit, so now I trimmed my pickguard back and wa-la, perfect fit all the way around. I can not begin to express my exasperation at having diassembled my guitar so many times, but I guess thats punishment for being soo stupid. Sorry for wasting all your time guys. Now give the the verbal beat-down I have comming!

[ChrisK]

Uh, no.

A sadist and masochist were engaged in conversation.

One said "beat me, beat me", and

The other said "no".


You've already had more than a fair share of pain....

[badams]

Get your neck as straight as possible and then level and crown the frets. You should have a gradual fret drop off in height from about the 12th fret to the end of the neck. I'm sorry that this isnt probably what you want to hear? The fact of the matter is that most frets on a new neck and just about all new guitars look like a roller coaster. The truss rod is meant to keep the neck from bowing from the strings pull and should never be used as an action adjuster. I learned these things from my brother in law who can get an action so low without nary a buzz that you can just barely ( and I mean barely)see daylight between the top of the frets and bottom of the string. If you're going to do the fret work yourself then you'll have to do some on line research because its beyond the scope of what I'd like to write here.

[way]

hi..glad to have this website: just want to ask u :

is it ok if i loosen and tighten the strings really often when i adjusting truss rod? i need to loosen the strings because i found out that:

when i'm ready to turn my allen key for adjusting my truss rod...my allen key movement is so limited because of the strings "wall"(the string tension is acting just like a wall for my allen key movement) ....i need to loose the string tension so that i can turn my allen key liberately)


and i need to tighten the strings-bring it up to pitch again-- to look if there is still a gap or not...

is it fine to do such thing (tighten-loosen the strings ) often? i'm afraid that i might broken the neck and the strings if i do such thing..
help..thx u

[robert43]

You can lossen then adjust then tighten to pitch etc ok as this is what you have to do on a bass guitar other wise you will wreck work truss rod on the bass.
When I adjust my sons strat I turn the allen key untill it hits the strings you should only go 1/8 turn at a time any way. Then check the neck etc