Fret Job Blues

[dstrats]

Hi all,

I'm new here and I hope someone can guide me through my lil' prob.

I've been using GHS Nickel Rockers (NR) for over two yrs. on my '57 Fender Strat Ri. As y'all know that strat has the classic small frets. I can't stand those frets so I finally got them changed to the biggest frets I could find. Before the fret job those NRs' changed my whole playing life. I love the way the feel and sound on my strat. They sounded full and warm. After the fret job... a bit of a problem.

When I got my strat back I didn't have time to play it right there. It took about 5 hours before I got to it. When I finally had time to try them out, my excitement over my huge frets was cut short. The low E, A, D, strings sounded muffled, dull (as if the strings where too big for the nut) when played open/fretted which seems impossible due to the fact that it's the original nut, it just has a shim under it!

I played it for awhile, I thought it just needed to be worked. The next day I played it for about 3 hours and the problem was still there. I decided to bring the strat back to the tech. When I told the tech of my prob, he said, "Oh, the tech who actually worked on your strat noticed that dull sound on the wrapped stings but figured you just gave us a "dead" set of strings." So he suggested changing them. So I did... same thing.

It doesn't make any sense to me why the NRs' would be dull sounding if their on the same exact saddles and the same nut, just bigger frets being installed makes them sound bad?

As a side note, 'bout 2 yrs ago when I fell in love with the NRs' I thought I'd put them on my SRV strat. That strat has taller frets on it. When I put the NRs' on it I experienced the same dull sound on the wrapped stings but I figured that there was just something wrong with my SRV since the strings sounded so lively on my '57 Ri.

I contacted someone at GHS which they did try to help but ran out of ideas.

Please forgive my more than lengthy post being it's my first post. I hope one of you good people could give me some helpful advise on my problem with the NRs'. Thanks in advance.

[UnklMickey]

Hi dstrats,

Welcome to Guitarnuts2.

dstrats said:

The low E, A, D, strings sounded muffled, dull (as if the strings where too big for the nut) when played open/fretted which seems impossible due to the fact that it's the original nut, it just has a shim under it!
....

Shim stock is soft? Gaps in the adhesive? Either of those might be causing loss of energy in the transfer from nut to neck? Angle of nut changed, not enough angle back from end of nut?

[sumgai]

dstrats,

Hi, and welcome to the NutzHouse! ;D

Whenever I see a problem that doesn't make sense, I try to duplicate it elsewhere. You've done that by putting the suspect strings on a different guitar. Although, it would be helpful to try it on a third axe (two examples is a rather poor sampling of the population. ), preferably not the same kind (make it a non-Strat).

That said, if you get the same results on two or more guitars, then Jimmy the Greek says "it ain't the guitars, baby". Either you've gotten a bad batch of strings (possible, low odds), or else both of your guitars have goop on the frets that muffles the strings (possible, even lower odds). Or, you could go for Door Number 3, Monty!! How about trying another kind of string altogether? Not anything from GHS, I don't care how married to them you are, it's gotta be from a completely different company. And to ice the cake, try to get something that doesn't emphasize the nickel content.

If, at that point, the problem clears up, guess what? However, if the strings are still dull, then go back to the tech and talk to him. Remind him that the guitar sounded fine when you brought it in, now it doesn't. Same strings, only difference being the fret job. Let them explain it, and don't accept any "hey, it's not our problem, we just put the frets on, that's all". GeFooey^® on that, they're in the hotseat - they were the last ones to touch the axe (besides you).

And FWIW (old-timers here know this is coming......), let me recommend a set of Dean Markley Blue Steels. I switched to that set almost a decade ago because they sounded just like, you guessed it, the original nickel Fender strings I used when I was a kid.

HTH


sumgai

[mlrpa]

I kinda agree with sumgai. I think you might have a weird set of strings. Most people don't realize that you can get bad batches of strings. I had the same problem with a set of Dean Markley's, (sorry Sumgai) where the "A" string was completely dull. 9 Sets later, all out of the same case mind you, the problem was still there. Changed back to my normal D'adario's and the problem was gone.

Oh, and welcome to the insanity!

[Ripper]

Yes, dstrats...Welcome!

All the fellas here have heard me talk about my re-fretting in past posts, so guys....roll your eyes and bare with me okay!

I had my 70's Strat re-fretted with Dunlop 6105 stainless steel...same as whats on your SRV.

I had no problems what-so-ever. They did have to intall a taller nut becasue my frets got taller, but you said they put a shim under yours so that shouldnt be the " Gremlin "

Im gonna have to go with the new string theory.
As Sumgai stated, blue steels are greta strings.They are all I use as well 10-46

btw...I too have an SRV Strat!

I feel as though this may be the start of a beeeeeautiful friendship!

Im tearin up here!

[sumgai]

deepblue said:

Yes, dstrats...Welcome!

..............

I feel as though this may be the start of a beeeeeautiful friendship!

Im tearin up here!

You Canadians always were suckers for a pretty face!

[sumgai]

mlrpa said:

I kinda agree with sumgai. I think you might have a weird set of strings. Most people don't realize that you can get bad batches of strings. I had the same problem with a set of Dean Markley's, (sorry Sumgai) where the "A" string was completely dull. 9 Sets later, all out of the same case mind you, the problem was still there. Changed back to my normal D'adario's and the problem was gone.

Oh, and welcome to the insanity!

Mr. Murphy knows no boundries!

[mlrpa]

I'm on a first name basis with Mr Murphy! He's my Godfather!!!

[gitpiddler]

Welcome dstrats,
I'd have to echo Unk on the shim job. prolly not a nice flat surface on the shim if it's hard. Blue Steel 10-46 here also, since they came out with 'em, though I'm impressed by the coated strings.
This prolly should be under Lutherie. Good luck.

[UnklMickey]

gitpiddler said:

Welcome dstrats,
I'd have to echo Unk on the shim job. prolly not a nice flat surface on the shim if it's hard. Blue Steel 10-46 here also, since they came out with 'em, though I'm impressed by the coated strings.
This prolly should be under Lutherie. Good luck.

Good catch. I'll ask Sumgai, Runewalker, or ChrisK to move the thread over there.

[ChrisK]

Shim stock is soft? Gaps in the adhesive? Either of those might be causing loss of energy in the transfer from nut to neck? Angle of nut changed, not enough angle back from end of nut?

!

[gitpiddler]

I just noticed that Taylor machined the 12-string nut with a slight lean towards the fingerboard. My first instinct would be lean it into the string-break point. Maybe it flexes the nut a bit when you bang the open notes, or compensates harmonically? The gold-titanium appearing coating on the DM Alchemy strings reminds me of the annodizing on knives. They flex easy, not as stiff as the Blues. Happy 4-20

[mikesr1963]

I believe those string are fretting out some and recommend that you have the nut replaced so no shims are needed.

Sounds like someone missed a step when they set your guitar back up, my point being if you have done a fret job on a guitar and it now has 3 strings that sound flat, why wouldn't put on a new set of strings. If I did that fret job and that happened I would think that I did something to cause those strings to go flat and would fix it, otherwise I didn't finish the job. I mean, you brought him a good sounding guitar to upgrade, why wouldn't you expect to get one back.