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Post by Ripper on Oct 15, 2007 9:55:46 GMT -5
Ive always wondered...
Is it pronounced...
Luthier Luth-yA....As in "Hay" or Luthier...as in "Her"
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Post by gfxbss on Oct 15, 2007 10:24:48 GMT -5
I have always said "Her." In fact, i have never heard anyone say "Hay". French influence maybe? Tyler
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Post by Ripper on Oct 15, 2007 14:05:23 GMT -5
Im Canadian, but not French Canadian....A few curse words...thats it!
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Post by gfxbss on Oct 15, 2007 21:52:22 GMT -5
ahh, ok. im not any too familiar with what parts of Canada are french and what isnt. but back to the drawing board ad far as theories on why wwe say it differently.
Tyler
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Post by wolf on Oct 16, 2007 0:10:18 GMT -5
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Post by gfxbss on Oct 16, 2007 5:15:57 GMT -5
hmmm, all that time as a young kid in school only to find out that ive been tricked again. ;D
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Post by kuzi16 on Oct 16, 2007 8:10:45 GMT -5
loo-thee-er is how i have always said/heard it.
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Post by ccso8462 on Oct 16, 2007 12:02:45 GMT -5
loo-tee-er sort of makes sense. When I pick up my guitar after having it worked on, I ask what the charge is. The guys says "Put the loot here"
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Post by sumgai on Oct 16, 2007 12:05:43 GMT -5
Then the dictionary has it wrong. Every luthier I've ever run into pronounces the "th" fully, thus correctly. BTW, many European languages do spell 't' as 'th'. It has to do with how languages creep through evolution, but since the term 'lute' comes from a Romantic language in the first place, somebody in dictionary-ville must have decided to ignore the fact that the Anglo-Saxons had gotten ahold of it several hundred years ago. Hence the sometimes bitter arguments about how a written alphabet should be used to represent an oral sound. </today's lesson on etymology> sumgai
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Post by andy on Oct 18, 2007 14:38:42 GMT -5
loo-thee-er is how i have always said/heard it. Likewise. What does everyone reckon about another often written, rarely spoken guitar word- 'piezo'. I've heard both 'py-zo' and 'pee-zo', 'pee-ezo' and even 'pee-et-zo' (sort of like pizza, despite the lack of a double 'Z'). The latter and least likely is the one that goes through my head when I am reading it, but it seems that we only say it when we really have to, for fear of looking foolish and using a dumb pronunciation, which doesn't leave much consensus to go on!
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Post by sumgai on Oct 18, 2007 20:12:08 GMT -5
Another Romantic-language based word. Generally....... when a 'z' follows a long vowel, it's pronounced with a 't' sound in front. Also generally, the majority of European tongues pronunce their vowels as what we call "long", unless found in one of the seemingly many exceptions. Thus, the phonetic spelling of the word would be: pee- eh?-tzo. That question mark in not an error, it's intended to draw attention to the 'e' - you pronounce it as if you were a Canadian who is ending a sentence, eh? Nearly all other methods of representing a long 'a' invite misinperpretation, this is the only one upon which all English speakers can agree. ;D HTH sumgai
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Post by andy on Oct 19, 2007 6:17:43 GMT -5
Sumgai, you know, you know a lot of things about a lot of things. If you know what I mean! And you dispense your knowledge as quick as, too- I commend you for it. But as I don't know many Canadians, is that an 'eh?' as in a shortened 'air', or 'ey' as in 'Hey' In London you find there are many nuances to mono-syllabic semi-communication...
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Post by jkemmery on Oct 19, 2007 9:56:27 GMT -5
Then the dictionary has it wrong. Wow, now that's confidence. Actually, I studied French some in college, and, the dictionary has it right, it would be pronounced with a 't' and not a 'th' sound, since the word is, well, French. Every dictionary you will find has the 't' sound as the proper pronunciation. Plus, the root word is 'lute', one of the earliest European stringed instruments, so it does make sense. However, since we English speakers, especially Americans like to make our own rules, and since our rules tend to defer to common usage as opposed to what's technically "proper", I'd have to say the 'th' version, which is how I've mostly heard it pronounced as well could be considered correct for English/American. Since it's not a common word, I'm sure Webster's isn't going to rush out and change the phoenetics any time soon.
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Post by jkemmery on Oct 19, 2007 15:05:09 GMT -5
In London you find there are many nuances to mono-syllabic semi-communication... I'd bet London has nothing on the United States Army.
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Post by jkemmery on Oct 19, 2007 15:26:31 GMT -5
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Post by sumgai on Oct 19, 2007 18:03:19 GMT -5
Jake, Actually, I studied French in school too. Too bad the Army sent me to Germany, where I promptly learned German as spoken on the streets by the common Burgher. (I think that in all my life, I've probably spoken more French in Viet Nam than anywhere else on the planet.) Even so, your observation about "English as spoken by Americans" is fairly spot-on. However, I would contend that since dictionaries by Merriam-Webster, et al, are allegedly being written for Americans, in America no less, then don't you think that it would behoove them to not worry about how the French folk pronounce any given word? And why shouldn't they get it "right", when the keep adding new words from the hip-hop slang-tionary, and calling them legitimate? I mean, have you looked up "dis" recently? For a small chuckle, check out how various languages treat the word 'restaurant'. It's very nearly universal in the Occidental strata, but the while spelling and pronunciation do change from one place to another, you can nearly always make yourself understood, if you aren't a tipsy eight year old who's waving around a hot soldering iron. ;D And for the record, lute is derived from the Arabic word alud, where it found it's way into Latin as laut, then on into French as lut. Where the 'h' came from I can't say, but I'd bet a couple of sets of strings that the Anglo-Saxons had something to do with it. HTH sumgai p.s. Merriam-Webster's website can be abbreviated as m-w.com. Less typing is good.
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Post by andy on Oct 19, 2007 18:34:06 GMT -5
In London you find there are many nuances to mono-syllabic semi-communication... I'd bet London has nothing on the United States Army. Maybe, but I reckon we've got more guns here!!! P.S. I was just about to post this and realised that guns are of course LEGAL in the US. So perhaps the joke wont carry...
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Post by jkemmery on Oct 20, 2007 18:33:30 GMT -5
Maybe, but I reckon we've got more guns here!!! P.S. I was just about to post this and realised that guns are of course LEGAL in the US. So perhaps the joke wont carry... I think there are more guns in my neighborhood than we had in my whole battalion when I was in the service. Then again, this time of year, there are almost as many people wearing camouflage (it's deer season) as when I was in the Army. Yes, I live in rural America ...
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