Metal / Hard Rock P/ups

[drummer]

Hey people!

I'm making a guitar as a school project and I'd like to gather as much information as possible, and this site seems the place to help me

So basically, as the guitar will be designed specifically for a mix of Hard Rock and Metal, I'd like to know what pickups would suit rhythm guitar in these genres. I don't want total distortion, but a little bit of a disting sound would be great.

Also, another constraint is that there will be one Humbucker and one SC so if they could be as similar as possible, preferably of the same design, that would be great.

Has anyone any suggestions, or advice on pups?

Thanks in advance.

[Ripper]

drummer...

Welcome to our 'lil world!

Im assuming by your name that guitar playing is your second passion?
I see a few things in your post that id like to discuss.

First: You talk of not wanting a pup with total distortion.
Pickups do not distort. You can buy a pup with the highest output known to man, itll still sound clean.
Higher output pickups ( Humbuckers) ...ones for hard rock/metal etc. send a stronger signal to the amplifier. Therefore itll overdrive or clip the signal earlier in the gain stage...result?....distortion-fuzz-growl, you choose the name you like. The choices are endless. I always recommend going to the Dimarzio site and using the "Find the right pickup" It lets you dial in the sound you want, and gives you tried and true choices.

Single coil pups are a whole new beast...a much more mellow beast, but a beast none the less. If you have to have one in your project guitar, and its for metall/rock, id suggest a high output single coil. Fender Texas specials for example. Youll never get the output of a humbucker, so there will be a drop in volume when you switch pickups on the fly. Again, check the Dimarzio site.

Just try and remember that the heavy "distortion" comes from amp, not the guitar. The guitar just sends it the signal to play with.
If the signal is a strong one....Youll break up, or distort sooner.

There are many guys on this site that im sure can fine tune what I have just stated, but I hope this makes it a little clearer.

Good Luck! ;D

[drummer]

Firstly, thanks for the welcome and yeah, guitar is second to drumming

I have taken a new look at my project and decided to go for two humbuckers, [changed the design situation a bit]. I know it's the amp that gives the distortion, but knew the pickups had somthing to do with it, you say the higher power ones are used for metal and hard rock.

The Dimarzio site thing sounds useful, do you reccomend their pickups and what other pickups are there available?

[Ripper]

Go to www.dimarzio.com

At the bottom right corner youll see a "Pickup Picker"
You then choose between high, medium or vintage power, and follow what it says.

Do I reccomend Dimarzio?....They make great pups. So do dozens of other companies. Its just that the Dimarzio site has that neat little pickup picker that lets you get close to where you need to go, so you have an idea before you even go to buy them.

[drummer]

Ok, thanks for the info!

I'll probably be asking a lot more on this forum in the future by the way

[jkemmery]

Just as a follow up to Deep Blue, the Dimarzio Super Distortion, throughout the 70's and in to the 80's was the Hard Rock pickup, used by the likes of Ace Frehley, Pete Townsend, Randy Rhodes, Dave Murryay & Adrian Smith of Iron Maiden, and still used by many modern guitarists such as Paul Gilbert, Tom Delonge of Blink 182 and Dexter Holland of The Offspring. It'd be a nice starting off point it would seem for the type of guitar you are looking to build. When you look for a Single Coil, you want one that has at least 50% or more resistance as the hubucker. So, with a Super Distortion rated at 13.68 ohms, you would want a single coil rated at at least 6.84 or better on the guitar so that when both pickups are selected, the tone varies from just the humbucker alone. Good luck with your project, feel free to ask any more questions. Hope this helps.

[Ripper]

You see!...

I didnt know about 50% rule of thumb.
Thanks jkemm.

I dont care how long youve been playing. You can always learn something new.

[gfxbss]

im with deep, thanks jk, i definitely never knew about the 50% rule either. i can attest for dimarzio in particular. i have them in a les paul special and love the range of sounds i can get. just for a heads up, if you a going to want to do anything "fancy" (ie. coil taps) then make sure you get 4 conductor humbuckers....

Tyler

[drummer]

Aah, ok. And thanks for the info!

4 conductor, yeah, I'm going to need them for the wiring diagram I'm doing. One with a 5 way switch and HH now.

Can I ask about Air Nortons, are the suitable for B and N positions?

[jkemmery]

You could use an Air Norton in both the neck and bridge, but a more varied combo might be to use a Norton in the bridge and an Air Norton in the neck, or an Air Norton in the neck and a Virtual Hot PAF in the bridge. If you're going for a more bassey tone, you could use an Air Zone in the bridge and an Air Norton in the neck. If you're looking for a 4 conductor pup similar to a Super Distortion, the Dual Sound is basically a SD with 4 conductors ... There a quite a few good option in the Dimarzio line up for nice, balanced HH tones.

[UnklMickey]

jkemmery said:

...When you look for a Single Coil, you want one that has at least 50% or more resistance as the humbucker. ...

This assumes that the coils are the same size (they're not) the wire is the same diameter (uncertain) the magnetic field from the magnets/polepieces are the same, and the string amplitude is the same (greater the farther away from the bridge.

The first two affect the hum-cancelling, all factors affect the relative signal strength. DC resistance can either be a reasonable first estimate if the wire diameter is the same, or completely misleading if it isn't.

Cheers,
Unk

[wolf]

drummer
Sooner or later, I figured you would move on to other guitar building topics. I too am a big fan of Dimarzio pickups, particularly the X2N, the highest output pickup made by any manufacturer. Even though high output pickups generally have a warm tone, the X2N is surprisingly bright and might not be exactly what you want for a punchy kind of crunch sound. I've recently found the Dimarzio Super III to have more of a nice mid-range punch. My recommendation for you would be the Dimarzio Super III. (and of course it is a 4 wire humbucker as is the X2N).

[drummer]

Wow, thanks for the input, I'm surprised at how much I can find out!

I don't know of many pup manufacturers, are there any similar to Dimarzio but cheaper? I've been looking at the prices and don't want to spend £60 on 2 pups really.

[jkemmery]

I don't know of many pup manufacturers, are there any similar to Dimarzio but cheaper? I've been looking at the prices and don't want to spend £60 on 2 pups really.

store.guitarfetish.com/humbuckers.html

They have some decent pups at discount prices. I used a set of Fats for this build:
guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=music&action=display&thread=1185636082

They have a nice tone and are relatively cheap. Stay away from anything that would go on backorder .... I had a bad experience with that, which would be the Fats in all black. They have the Fats in zebra, chrome and gold which look to be in stock. I have also not heard good things about the "Crunchy" pups, but I can't attest to any other than the Fats personally. I felt they were a very adequate pickup with nice tone but didn't blow me away. The backorder issue soured me on the company. Others on this board seem to have had much better luck with them. You could check shipping to the UK.

The other option would be to look for pups on Ebay that would fit in to your price range.
Good luck with the build.

[drummer]

Aye, I've looked a bit on ebay, pretty good value and I think I might go for somthing on there

Thanks everybody

[drummer]

After looking on ebay, I've found a few more Q's to ask. Basically reccomendations:

Does anyone reccomend Wilkinson Humbuckers, preferably high output ones if you have knoledge of them?

Thank again

[Runewalker]

drummer said:

After looking on ebay, I've found a few more Q's to ask. Basically recommendations:

Does anyone recommend Wilkinson Humbuckers, preferably high output ones if you have knowledge of them?

Thank again

I don't direct experience with the Ebay Wilkinson advertised by several sellers. I have inquired on their p90s and found they were ceramic mags. Typically that can be an indication of cheaper Chinese pups, although Dimarzio, SDuncan, Gibson and other name brands have them in some of their high end stuff, especially for higher output pups. The engineers here can explained why ceramic might be preferred in some applications.

I suspect that with you wanting to go metal, that ceramic pups are a better choice for you, as the more subtle differences in both wiring options and alnico voices are not as evident in heavily distorted/saturated tone.

I also understand you are a student and cost sensitive. Folks here are sort of divided into "only the best for me" vs those who revel in accomplishing serviceable and even superior instruments on the cheap.

If you were buying the parts for a custom bike, but were limited in budget, bicyclists would recommend you put your quality purchase into the frame and upgrade derailleurs, brakes, cranks etc as you can afford them. Following that notion for guitars, put your best effort and funds into your chassis - the neck, body, frets. Tuners, bridges, pups etc can always be upgraded later. Decide on the wiring scheme that gives you flexibility beyond your current capabilities so you can grow into greater breadth as a musician and builder.

alright back to your pup question. A seller that is a little obscure, but sells bargain parts with a nod toward the metalist is an Ebay seller that goes by the company name of Guitar Heads.

Guitar Heads Seller's Store

Yes he ships international, naturally at greater cost. He is a metal head himself.

Among his offerings, given how you have described your style and preferences, look at his hipshot style hard-tail bridge. This type is more forgiving on precision location of posts than Tuno-s and one piece Gibby style bridges.

Guitar Heads Chrome Hardtail Bridge

For your pups look at:

Guitar Heads Black-Gold Humbucker Pickups

or

Guitar Heads Zebra Humbucker Pickups

these are ceramic mag pups, although he does have some alnicos. A nice feature is 12 adjustable poles, a capacity missing on most pups. Sorely missed when you go to alternative single coil arrays in wiring schemes.

He includes some sound samples and with his amp rig harmonics abound.

The point is this is a serviceable place to start at a low cost, given a product with a lot of features. I bought his alnicos for a project I built for my daughter, thinking I'll save some money and "oh what the hell, she won't know the difference". I was really surprised and am always "borrowing" her guitar because of the way it plays and sounds.

can't wait to see your finished project.






(EDIT: made several extra-long URL's more user-friendly - sumgai)

[drummer]

Thank you for the ebay shop and explaining the difference between ceramics and alcino a bit I'm off to have a look at that shop...

*goes and looks*

Seems pretty good, stocks useful parts... but is in dollars, I suppose that wont matter.

Thanks

[wolf]

Since someone already mentioned GuitarFetish pickups, it seems they have some real bargains in their clearance section:
store.guitarfetish.com/clse.html

They have pairs of humbuckers selling for $30. If you want to "splurge", they have a pair of "metal" humbuckers for $35. I have no idea of the quality of these particular pickups but if I were customizing a guitar, these are what I would buy.

Well, it's something to think about.

[tattooedindian]

I have the GFS Power Rails, and they are great for metal, they also sound great with no distortion