Gibson/Epiphone?

[RJB]

Well, the spouse is letting me open the wallet on a new mistress. So to compliment the Tele I'm thinking along the lines of a dual HB, 24-3/4" scale, fixed bridge guitar. Seeing as the used market in my general area has slim pickings, and I'd prefer to try before buy, I'm probably looking at new, and probably from "Banjo Centre".

Price is under $1000, and the current contenders are.
- Epi LP Standard - Was a pretty well rounded player.
- Epi LP Goldtop - Kinda bright, and close to Tele sound
- Epi Sheraton (335 type) - Bad bridge pup, on the model I tried.
- Gibby LP Special - Nice Snarl, kinda one dimensional
- BC Rich Mockingbird - TERRIBLE fret spout, put back
- Schecter C1 - A bit dark sounding for my tastes
- Dean and Gibby 'V' - Too uncomfortable for me

Other contenders to be tried
Epi LP Custom (I like the white w/Gold)
Epi Wildcat (hollowbody w/Bigsby)
Epi Elitist (just out of the range, but maybe)
have a lead on a used Gibby LP Studio
BC Rich Bich
Ibanez artcores

I'd like to know peoples opinions. I suppose it's kind of obvious the direction I'm thinking. The Sheraton would have probably been a winner, the neck pup was sweet when clean, and nice and mellow when dirty, but the bridge pup was tinny and lifeless. The LP Standard almost came home, except for the Trans Amber finish. I know color doesn't matter, but I want to at least TRY the Custom in White first, and see if I can find another Sheraton to try. There's no rush on a decision. And this will be guitar #4 so I can take some time to find one I bond with. So.......

[RandomHero]

My reccomendation to you is to try more Schecters. All the schecters I've played have been beautiful through and through. BC Rich has yet to make a guitar that impressed me... Ibanez makes decent and bad axes, depending on your price range, but I've played identical models of Epis and Gibsons in a/bs. I couldn't tell the difference, but my wallet could.

[UnklMickey]

admin said:

...but I've played identical models of Epis and Gibsons in a/bs. I couldn't tell the difference, but my wallet could.

the only issue i would have with an epi, would be that ugly-as-sin headstock. it would almost be worth gibson money to not have to look at that.

i haven't had the pleasure of playing a schecter, but word on the street is, they are some-kinda-nice.

also worth mentioning, PRS. not a real contender in the value per dollar arena. But absolutely gorgeous guitars.

[dunkelfalke]

cort m520? should be better than an epiphone one.

maybe you should also look for a carvin guitar

[wolf]

You said you'd like to try before you buy, but a great online alternative is Agile Guitars. www.rondomusic.net/electricguitar.html
I own one of these and it is very well-made and reasonably priced.

Still, if you are wondering about Gibson / Ephiphone one very important thing to keep in mind is - are you ever planning on rewiring it? (After all you are a Guitar Nut right?). Anyway, as I've said dozens of times, Gibson makes humbuckers that are totally incapable of being opened up to get at all 4 humbucker wires. So ...... if you think some great sounding Gibson would sound even better if rewired, then think of spending at least an additional $100 for humbuckers that can be rewired.

[blackout]

wolf said:

You said you'd like to try before you buy, but a great online alternative is Agile Guitars. www.rondomusic.net/electricguitar.html
I own one of these and it is very well-made and reasonably priced.

Still, if you are wondering about Gibson / Ephiphone one very important thing to keep in mind is - are you ever planning on rewiring it? (After all you are a Guitar Nut right?). Anyway, as I've said dozens of times, Gibson makes humbuckers that are totally incapable of being opened up to get at all 4 humbucker wires. So ...... if you think some great sounding Gibson would sound even better if rewired, then think of spending at least an additional $100 for humbuckers that can be rewired.

sweet priced guitars wow Im so picking up one with p90's

[dunkelfalke]

now that sucks. they sell them for twice that much in germany, otherwize i would buy that one with p90's immideately

[RJB]

Thanks for the responses. As far as Schecters my 3rd guitar was almost a C1+. I actually had one home for about 2 weeks. Beautiful guitar, excellent quality and features, just didn't fit what I was looking for at the time. Ended up with the Tele Nashville. I do plan on trying the Schecters next to the Epis.

PRS? If I can find one of the <$1000 models I'll give it try. I usually only see the 3 pickup tremelo style ones in that price range.

Cort?? Haven't seen that brand in a decade or two, at least around here.

Agile!! Wow! On paper they seem to be the second coming of the guitar gods. No disrespect to Wolf but I'm not sure about these. Specifically 2 things, the jumbo frets just feel weird to me. These are standard on every BC Rich I've tried, and just hated them. Second the 14" fretboard. I find the transition from 9.5 on electric to 12 on acoustic noticable enough. If one was available locally I would not hesitate to give them a try though. Wolf is the quality, fit, finish as good in person as in the pictures.

Mail order in general. Carvin, Musician's Friend, Rondo ... They seem to have decent trial periods, and return policies. If I really can't find something local in the 6-8 stores near me I'll probably try an Agile. But I'd like to try and keep the local guys in business.

Epiphone ugly headstock. I've thought about this a bit, and I can live with this. I followed up on the Gibson LP Studio. Magnificently clean used example. I don't think it was ever out of it's case based on the pictures I saw. But is the NAME worth $150 more than an epiphone? Also the studios look un finished without the binding and such.

This leads to the spouse factor. Honestly I got enough gripe for the second red guitar, can you imagine the third? And her comment was "why don't you buy a nice guitar. Those look boring" The Sheraton, though plain, has a vine inlay on the headstock she likes. Yes looks aren't that important, but a happy spouse leads to a happy guitarist.

Now Wolf's comment about modding. Tinkering with guitars, and effects lead to my engineering career, so I'm a dyed in the wool tinkerer. But right now in my life, with work, after hours consulting, and family commitments of 3 teenagers, I'm spending my time playing not tinkering with guitars. The sealed forever HB, don't bother me so much, because I usually don't like the SC sound of HBs. I'd usually rather change guitars. In short this guitar will be left stock while I work on technique.

I guess a comment I made to one store owner sums it up pretty well. "I'm a hack played that now has the means to purchase gear that exceeds my abilities". I guess to some extent I'm looking for a bit of a "wall art" guitar.

I think we've covered just about everything in the price range. I hope that no one takes my public train of thoughts as a disregard of your opinions. Just trying to decide on a, for me, rather large, non-necessary, purchase. And I do appeciate and value the comments of you all.

Ron

[UnklMickey]

...This leads to the spouse factor. Honestly I got enough gripe for the second red guitar, can you imagine the third? And her comment was "why don't you buy a nice guitar. Those look boring" The Sheraton, though plain, has a vine inlay on the headstock she likes. Yes looks aren't that important, but a happy spouse leads to a happy guitarist....

if she's involved in the decision in one way or another, she'll certainly be less likely to gripe about it, so that alone has to be worth a ton.

But I'd like to try and keep the local guys in business.

Absolutely! the local guys give us the opportunity to try before buy, quick access to supplies, and sometimes a wealth of product knowledge. that's worth paying a few extra bucks, as long as it's not too out of line.

But is the NAME worth $150 more than an epiphone?

names don't impress me that much, when it comes to guitars, other than the way it affects resale value. if you do a lot of buying and selling, definitely consider the name factor. if it's something you plan to keep forever, the name doesn't mean much.


unk

[servant]

unklmickey said:

...This leads to the spouse factor. Honestly I got enough gripe for the second red guitar, can you imagine the third? And her comment was "why don't you buy a nice guitar. Those look boring" The Sheraton, though plain, has a vine inlay on the headstock she likes. Yes looks aren't that important, but a happy spouse leads to a happy guitarist....

if she's involved in the decision in one way or another, she'll certainly be less likely to gripe about it, so that alone has to be worth a ton.

Amen to that. After getting my wife some ring that she was drooling over, she said, "Hey, why don't you get that nice Les Paul you've always wanted?" I narrowed it down to a new Gibson USA LP Standard with the '60s neck, then down to three finishes. I would have been perfectly happy with any one of these three, but she was rather partial to the Wine Red. That's what I got, and she still tells me, "That's a pretty guitar." Now, for a gal who wondered why I needed two e-guitars (Strat and Casino), getting a third was a big step. Her support on this is a huge load off my mind!

[dunkelfalke]

equal rights here, equal rights there, i don't think your wife should decide how many guitars you should have as long as you spend your own money on them.

i mean, you don't say to her "two pairs of shoes are enough", do you?

[RJB]

Well it's done. I bought the red Gibson.

I tried a couple more Epiphones. There wasn't another Sheraton to try, but I tried a Dot Studio ES335, it sounded a little "thin", no character. The Wildkat was fun, but the Bigsby threw me, maybe another time.

The only BC Rich was a Black on Black, just not my style. The Ibanez Artcores were all hollow, not semi-hollow. And the only non Black/Black Schecter was just missing a little "snap" I found in the LPs.

So thinking I could always go back to this store, I dragged wifey off to look/listen to the Gibson at the other store. To be honest in a blind test between the 'E' Custom and the 'G' Studio, I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference. But factor in resale of a used Gibson to a new Epiphone. (ok I'm rationalizing) And the Snob factor. (yes I admit it). As far as the red, the wife did like the glossy tranparent finish (others are CAR)and she understood that it was a good deal and such so no grief there. So...

Hello my name is Ron and I'm a guitar snob ......

"two pairs of shoes are enough"

If we matched shoes to guitars??? One used Squier per year. Plus I got the new car last year. ;D

Anyway thanks for listening, and for your input.

[Ripper]

I agree about the ummm... ugly headstock. Where are Epiphones made?

[RJB]

Most are made in Korea, with a inspect/setup in the USA sticker. (are they really?). I believe the Elitists are made in Japan, with american hardware.

[erikh]

What Gibby did ya get?

Actually, most Epi's are being made in China now. Lots of the Les Pauls are made there, except for some Customs, Frehley, Studio and Special II. Almost all the others are made in the China plant. Good quality coming from there actually. My LP Standard Plus would give a Gibby Studio a run for it's money. It just has the tone and feel. Really nice.

Yes, the Elitists are Japan, American Pickups at least.

That's cool that your wife was involved. Mine has been giving me input on my Tele project, mostly color choice.

[RJB]

What I got was a '99 Les Paul Studio in Wine Red, and chrome hardware. The guitar was on consignment from a guy that had used it in his studio for vacking tracks. The thing was as near mint as you can get. No buckle rash, 1 or 2 almost invisible dings, no corrosision and almost zero fret wear. I think it lived it's whole life in it's case. This model has the dot inlays, not the block ones on the current models. It came with Schaller straplock pins installed, for which I had a pair of the strap clips in the junk box.The stripped down look kind of grew on me. Out the door, taxes and everthing $850.

It's actually feels kind of light for a Les Paul, and very resonant, with a nice little snap to the sound. Two piece nicely matched (almost invisible) back, anf the top is a non-figured, bookmatch. Not the typical "boomy" sound from some HB guitars. Great for the classic rock sound, but cleans up nice with a JazzChorus sim on the Vamp. I might drop the action a bit, but feels pretty good where it is.

As far as the Epiphones, most of the ones I tried said made in Korea, inspected in US. Like I said if this particular guitar didn't become available, I was mostly sold in an Epi Custom. To me the sound, feel, fit & finish get you 90% there at half the cost. I'm guessing the Agiles are probably there as well, maybe for a future purchase. Next would be a new Amp, an acoustic, Hollowbody, 12 string, .....

Wife actually liked this guitar store. While I noodled around, she oohed and aahed at all the shiny. No pressure at all, quiet place, and they are actually competing with GC pricewise!! They are more of a high end store, lots of PRS, and American Fender, as well as specialty stuff. It's setup more like an art gallery. Was a great way to spend an hour on a Sat. morning. They're online at gguitars.com.

Ron

[erikh]

Very cool. I like small places like that. I had gotten a 93 black Studio back in the mid 90's for about the same price. Had to let it go after a while ago. What I loved about it was the neck profile and the tone it had. It was so solid. Had trapezoid inlays too. Now I have a Epi Standard Plus and am very happy with it. Just de-waxed the stock pickups and they opened up a lot. Took the covers off and found a pickup inside a brick of wax. )

Watch those Epi Customs though. Some are still made of alder. You have to really dig through the stock with those. The LP Standard Plus models that are Chinese are pretty consistant with the wood, pretty much all mahogany (luan or Phillipine Mahogany to be exact). Still good guitars though.

[biglionfan111]

If you have 1k to spend, I'd do the following... Look at the EPI Dot, but not the studio. Get the standard. They are about 399. I have one and it's great. But it is true that the stock epi pickups leave a bit to be desired, hence the price. Then drop in a set of top drawer pickups. I put '57 classic and '57 classic plus's in mine for about 400 installed. So now you have about 800 in a guitar that is about as close as you will get to a 1700$ ES-335 without the sticker on the headstock.

[Ripper]

You mean the Epi Les Pauls are made in China , right?
You sent a cold chill through my spine!

[karrde]

am i the only one who thinks the epiphone logo is actually nicer than the gibson one?

[kuzi16]

karrde said:

am i the only one who thinks the epiphone logo is actually nicer than the gibson one?

i dont dislike it.

as far as looks go im ok with either.

as far as what it SAYS... id rather it be a gibson.