Recent Fender quality...

[jimrib]

Hi Folks!

I'm a long time lurker that's not very talkative.
I've been playing off and on since roughly 1977 and know how to do my own setups for the most part.

First, Thanks in advance for any advice etc.

I recently bought a new SRV Signature Strat from my local (West Palm Beach) Guitar Center (GC) after roughly 15 years of WANTING one.

Note that I've been in and out of the "chain stores" (Sam Ash, GC, Mars Music when it existed), always looking at the SRV sig strat and finding them pretty decent. I've REALLY wanted one since I heard the specs on the neck and had an opportunity to hear the pickups.

Well, about 10 days ago I finally decided to buy one (with my wife's encouragement, which is pretty cool)

In brief, I am completely underwhelmed with everything but the sound of the pickups and feel of the neck.

The first one I picked up had a tuning stability problem, the whammy bar had to be forced in due to what the GC General Manager said was "lack of sandblasting" and the frets did not appear to be dressed (lots of buzzing, severe at the 3rd fret, but very little at the 5th fret, then up to the 12th fret or so).
Intonation was not even close (all saddles were near the back of the bridge without much of the stairstep pattern you would usually see on a strat)

The second one had frets that were completely undressed (I left the second one at the store and brought the first one back home because the replacement was so bad. The dept. manager had the store Luthier look at it and he confirmed my opinion)

With the above in mind, I'm curious if any of you have noticed an almost complete lack of quality control from Fender in the last few years and wonder if you would agree with my decision to write a letter to Fender and to return the Guitar to the store.

I'd really like to have this guitar working because I really do like the feel and sound, but...
I don't want to pay a premiun price for an instrument and have to go through all this crap to get one that "works".

I'd love to hear your thoughts and thanks for reading my rambling.

Regards,
Jim

[Ripper]

Jimrib...
Man, do I hear ya!

I too bought an SRV Strat about 5 or so months ago.
I talked about my problems here at GN2, I dont know how to include the threads so ill be brief for now...

When I brought the Strat home it seemed fine utill I inspected it closer. Mis-matched strap posts, welts on the finish and hairline cracks. Yes, I bought it new.
It sounded great!....but when im paying top dollar I want it all.
Long story short....
I took it back and had them order me another. I waited till the Fender rep came to the store and showed him. He agreed, and took my address and had me send him my story.

I got my new SRV and its the amazing guitar that I knew it would be. Alls well that ends well, but I did question Fenders quality control. The Fender rep assured me that he has witnessed QC at the California plant, an its second to none....but, he said, some slip by.

I have the Fender reps e-mail address if youd like it?...Im in Canada though so I dont know if hed be your man. But ill bet he can turn you to the proper channel.

The SRV's an amazing guitar...I have one and I love it. That, to me is all that counts.
I do hold Fender at arms length though.

[hammeroff]

To be fair, guitars like the SRV signature model, Eric Johnson, JS1200 are all guitars everybody wants to sit down and try out. I'm sure they get broken-in plenty while they sit in the shop.

On a side note, last July I was in Austin, TX, and went to "Heart of Texas" music store. The old guy there, Ray was the guy that sold Stevie #1. Anyway, Ray loves to talk, at one point he said "he could just sell Fenders and make a living!"

I sat and tried probably 9 different Strats, including the Eric Johnson and SRV.

I walked out with an Ibanez RG350 Awesome playing guitar, dropped some PAF style humbuckers in, and she's been my main axe since July.

[jimrib]

deepblue said:

Jimrib...
Man, do I hear ya!

I too bought an SRV Strat about 5 or so months ago.
I talked about my problems here at GN2, I dont know how to include the threads so ill be brief for now...

When I brought the Strat home it seemed fine utill I inspected it closer. Mis-matched strap posts, welts on the finish and hairline cracks. Yes, I bought it new.
It sounded great!....but when im paying top dollar I want it all.
Long story short....
I took it back and had them order me another. I waited till the Fender rep came to the store and showed him. He agreed, and took my address and had me send him my story.

I got my new SRV and its the amazing guitar that I knew it would be. Alls well that ends well, but I did question Fenders quality control. The Fender rep assured me that he has witnessed QC at the California plant, an its second to none....but, he said, some slip by.

I have the Fender reps e-mail address if youd like it?...Im in Canada though so I dont know if hed be your man. But ill bet he can turn you to the proper channel.

The SRV's an amazing guitar...I have one and I love it. That, to me is all that counts.
I do hold Fender at arms length though.

Thanks for confirming my thoughts as what you stated is fairly close to what I was going to do.
Also, I'd love to have an email address for the fender rep because I am damn disappointed and I want Fender to know it.
I've pretty much played nothing but Fenders with the odd Ibanez thrown in here and there during my "musical career" such that it is... I just expected more. I've been pretty disappointed in the last 3 or so years of Fender amps as well and I believe it's all quality control related and since they're charging a pretty hefty premium for "Made in the USA" gear, the quality should reflect the premium or they should start throwing everything away that's produced on what is effectively "Friday Afternoon"

Regards,
Jim

[jimrib]

hammeroff said:

To be fair, guitars like the SRV signature model, Eric Johnson, JS1200 are all guitars everybody wants to sit down and try out. I'm sure they get broken-in plenty while they sit in the shop.

On a side note, last July I was in Austin, TX, and went to "Heart of Texas" music store. The old guy there, Ray was the guy that sold Stevie #1. Anyway, Ray loves to talk, at one point he said "he could just sell Fenders and make a living!"

I sat and tried probably 9 different Strats, including the Eric Johnson and SRV.

I walked out with an Ibanez RG350 Awesome playing guitar, dropped some PAF style humbuckers in, and she's been my main axe since July.

Well...
I had a couple of old Ibanez Blazers from the '80s and they were fine instruments, I was just too stupid to realize that the Fender brand name didn't really mean anything at the time...
My 85ish American Standard Strat is a fine guitar too, but it wasn't $1500 list and it kicks the crap out of this signature guitar. It's never had any major work done to it either. I've replaced rusty screws, set the intonation and action and that's it.

FWIW, The guitar center guys here in West Palm Beach insist that a strat is going to buzz regardless, yet, I had a friend bring over an Ibanez bargain box fat strat copy and it didn't buzz AT ALL with the action set to 3/64... So much for not getting bullshitted eh?

Regards,
Jim

[jorg]

So, how did it turn out? I have a '95 strat plus that just about plays itself. I've never had any trouble with it and it is all original. I had a '91 deluxe strat plus that played just as well but I didn't like the red/silver/blue lace sensors. The '91 neck warped within 8 months and Fender replaced it. One of the locking tuners went south as well but it was out of warranty by that time. I sold the '91 in '06 but still play the '95 regularly.

[humanbn]

Yo, I agree about the lack of quality in modern fenders. Though I haven't had any experiences as bad as you fellows have. I bought a roadhouse strat in 1999 and it plays well but it has always been a bit weak, at least I think so. My friend works for callaham guitars and we talk a lot about inproving tone and tweaky and such. He has let me borrow some of the gutars that he has built and the difference is extreme. I started buying replacement hardware from callaham. It's cheaper than fender and modeled after the pre-cbs period with a few "upgrades". The first piece I bought was their trem block. It's solid cold rolled steel and has a delrin liner in the arm hole to stabilize the arm. My sustain increased and the arm does not bend at all when I use it. Solid as a rock. Their saddles are also nice. Everything they have is great. I still have a few upgrades to put in but what I've done so far ahs improved almost everything about the guitar. Fender uses cheaper metal alloys in order to maintain a price that the public can easily afford. This lowers the quality of their instruments. Even their custom shop pieces don't have the quality of hardware that many aftermarket companies offer. Callaham may not be the absolute best but it's easy for me to get their parts so that's what I use, plus any reviews I have ever seen of their stuff has nothing bad to say what so ever. I really like my guitar, always have, but stock fenders are not what they used to be.

[ChrisK]

First and foremost (well, after one decides that they like the tone of the neck and body), look down the fretboard for any minute (and often major) flaw in the staircase effect of light reflecting off of the frets as you tilt the guitar (do make sure that the lights are on).
If this test shows a very neat and uniform effect, you have a winner (probably).

When I bought this guitar Oooh, Shiny. What Should I Do To It? , the neck was uniform, but the strings buzzed like crazy above the 12th fret.

Now, anyone with semi-operational eyeballs (or even one thereof) could plainly see that the fretboard sloped back out from the guitar on the upper neck toward the body.

Furthermore, one could also plainly discern the presence of a (gasp) micro-tilt neck. Hmmm, gee, I wondered if'n that there adjustament could be readjusticated.

Yep, that's what is was there for. Apparently none of the micro-techs in the GC had a clue what a micro-tilt neck was for. Oh well, this guitar "hung around" on the wall for a while, slowly dropping in price. When it reached aboot $650, I bought it. Normal street price was $1,080.

But then, I also have the uncanny ability/proclivity to read and hence learn how to do things me self.

Reading is fundamental. Gee, sometimes it's just fun.


Oh yeah, quality. Well I suppose that it came from Fender this way. I do recall a number of AmDlx Strats a couple years ago in GC's that had sharp fret ends that stuck out of the sides of the fretboard. Either the end dressing was GeFooey or they were not properly stored (dried out wood). I didn't buy one then since while I DO know how to successfully rehydrate vintage (as in verboten) cigars, I'm not too sure about neck rescue (and they're way too long for any of my humidors.


Now, that SRV Strat probably was priced at about $1,400. List is probably about $2,000, but that is meaningless. The GC paid about $850 for that guitar (they're taking $560 just for holding it until you came along - well, there are those business costs things). This presumes that they paid about 60% of street price.

Unless Fender are all on drugs, they made that guitar for about $420 mean, labor and burden. This presumes a 50% gross margin for them to the giant reseller. If it were my company, the gross margin would be closer to 67%, which infers $280 mean, labor and burden.


What! You want perfection too!

[humanbn]

I played an Eric Johnson strat and a deluxe strat yesterday. I have to say that both were extremely over priced for the quality. The EJ's neck was so bad you couldn't bend the strings above the 12th fret. The pickguard was so think it had already begun to warp. The deluxe had frets that stuck out beyond the edge of the fretboard. The switches in both were loose and way too easily worked, I would be afraid of only tapping it and causing it to change positions. I left after playing those two.

[mr_sooty]

I have an American Deluxe Strat from 2004, and the craftsmanship is faultless. I can not find anything wrong with it at all. I am currently trying to sell it, but it has nothing to do with the quality of the guitar. It's very very good. A beautiful guitar to play.

This talk concerns me though, because I'm planning on getting one of the new 08 American Standards if my Deluxe sells.

[humanbn]

Mr_Sooty,

I have played some of the new ones that are nice. It just seems to be getting more common to find the ones that shouldn't have made it out of the factory. I played a new tele not too long ago that was amazing. Some sort of reissue, 50's I believe. If I would have had the money I would have bought that one.

[ChrisK]

I have an American Deluxe Strat from 2004, and the craftsmanship is faultless. I can not find anything wrong with it at all. I am currently trying to sell it, but it has nothing to do with the quality of the guitar. It's very very good. A beautiful guitar to play.

This talk concerns me though, because I'm planning on getting one of the new 08 American Standards if my Deluxe sells.

So let me ask you a DAQ (dumb a$$ question).

Why do you want to get rid of the 2004 Am Dlx? You'll likely only get about half of what you paid for it or at best half of what they go for new now ($1,200'ish). The new AmStd are aboot $1,000 street. You're still out about $250 - $300 for the upgrade.

The new AmStd now have necks just like the AmDlx. The new AmStd have better vibratos than the old ones. The AmDlx already had a better one.

About the only thing that I see of "value" is the pickup "downgrade" on the AmStd. For $250 - $300 one can do a fair bit of pimping (to a guitar).

And, I've heard tell of a wiring web site that will help one GeFutz with their GeWiring even if they don't GeNeed to.....


Now, I bought an old AmStd because it was only $660 new and I knew that I could "rescue" the setup (and it was shiny). It also fit a "hole" in my collection of players (S-1 HSS, ash body, rosewood board). I also wanted to use it as a test bed for Strat wiring mods before I stuck them into their new hosts (scratches are forever).

[mr_sooty]

chrisk said:

So let me ask you a DAQ (dumb a$$ question).

Why do you want to get rid of the 2004 Am Dlx? You'll likely only get about half of what you paid for it or at best half of what they go for new now ($1,200'ish). The new AmStd are aboot $1,000 street. You're still out about $250 - $300 for the upgrade.

Ahh, but you see I bought it second-hand for a very good price (well under half the retail), so I actually hope to get slightly more than what I paid. I have this nice Am Dlx and an old beat up '57 reissue, which sounds great but has a few neck issues (I've fixed up a lot of them, but it's not quite as perfect as I would like). I love the playability of the Deluxe, but not the tone quite as much. I also feel that I don't really need three electrics (I also have a very cool Reverend Club King RT semi-solid). I find I'm not playing the deluxe all that much. The idea is to sell both the deluxe and the '57 and get am 08 US Std, which should give me a similar playability to the Deluxe, but a tone closer to the '57. If all goes according to plan I should have enough left over to expand my pedal collection slightly and maybe even buy a practice amp (I currently have a PV Classic 50 which I love, but lugging it to practise can be a pain).

Only problem with all this is that my Deluxe Auction finishes today and so far - no bids. I feel quite pained at the idea of parting with these two Strats actually. Some days it's easy, other days I can't bear the thought and feel it's all a big mistake. Unfortunately I can't really pull out because I've already agreed to let a friend pay off the '57 and he's really excited about it! I always do this, I've attempted to sell that '57 about four times, and I always chicken out.

[mr_sooty]

Despite my last post about all the good reasons for selling my Strats, I've pulled out. My friend has let me off the hook re the '57. Whew.

[newey]

Mr S-

Probably a good decision. Every guitar I've ever sold, I've regretted it later. Not that I've sold that many- I tend to accumulate them. This may be a genetic trait, however.

[andy]

Newey, I have sold and missed many a guitar too. Some sales where very much an upgrade once replaced, but there are many little tonal characteristic which pop back into my head every now and then, just when I need them back!

I know this is a slightly different kettle of fish, as any Fender I buy will have travelled half way 'round the world and sat in storage for goodness knows how long, but every time I see this thread I feel I should chip in. The reason being that (as I'm sure I have mentioned elsewhere) I promised to get my electric guitar collection down to just two- one Fender and one Gibson style. For the Gibson style one I settled on an Epi SG Custom, with the three pickups which I replaced with a graduated set of Kent Armstrongs. This guitar was bought second hand, so may well have been set up before it came to me, but it plays very nicely and covers the tones I need (/want!) The Fender was more of a specific order, based on specs (Deluxe Nashville Tele). I felt that I was more into the Tele overall than any other, and wanted to keep the three classic Tele tones, but with just the one to work with, planned to replace the middle pickup with a hotter pickup (an SD JB jr., in the end). I popped in Dimarzio Twang Kings, rewired to get the bridge/neck selection and after trying an SD Lil'59, settled on the JB jr. This all worked fine, and the maple fingerboard and ash body where pretty much just what I was after. However, the feel of the instrument is just plain odd. I have had a little fiddle (well more a fumble, really) with the setup, but it all seems to be quite a long way off perfect, and many other new Fenders I have tried seem to be the same. Now OK, California or Mexico to England in a frieght container is a long and horrible journey, probably hot, cold, damp and dry in varying parts, but I am going to have to go for a full pro setup, most likely including a fret levelling. Having had pro setups on many guitars before it is very rare that they will need re-doing later, and a level set of frets is unlikely to suddenly be that far of level a few months down the road.

However it sounds, I'm not CROSS about this, I expect to have to have a bit of work done on a new guitar, but I have played much cheaper guitars which needed much less work needed on them from the off, and despite having bought a top brand, I will now have to fork out more than I expected for work which I'm sure should not really be needed on a quality, factory finished guitar??

Oh, and why do all guitars seem to be sent with .9s? I hardly know anyone who plays these most of the time!! A nice set of tens makes much more sense to me- those light string will more than likely get beefed up first thing after most purchases, surely.

[newey]

Andy-

Well, looking back through this rather long thread, I'd have to say that the shipping container and long trip probably had little to do with your issues with the Nashville. Look at all the posts of similar problems from people much closer to the source . . .

I expect to have to have a bit of work done on a new guitar,

If one gets a mail order Asian special, yes. But if one is paying many hundreds of dollars (or Euros) for a major brand axe, I expect it to be properly sorted. Maybe I'm naive . . .

I do notice that most in this thread with bad experiences with Fender QC mention buying/trying them in one of the "big box" guitar stores. In such places, I suspect the product is simply unboxed and hung on the wall. A local mom-and pop store is probably more likely to have had their resident tech take a peek at the incoming stock, and I'll bet they return a higher percentage to Fender, too. Prices are higher in such stores, but maybe a more hands-on approach to customer service is worth paying for in the end.

Oh, and why do all guitars seem to be sent with .9s?

Appealling to those darn shredders, I'm sure. Set-up aside, every guitar I've ever bought has needed a restringing right away anyway- not just for size, but also due to hanging on the aforesaid wall for a while. That I do expect to have to do to a new guitar.

[cynical1]

Mr. S

I bought a 1973 sunburst Jazz bass used in 1978 for $300.00, with the case. I sold in 1981 for $350.00...getting married, needed the money... (Right now that bass goes for between $2,000.00-$4,000.00 easily)

The lesson here is: "If you're gonna sell 'em, wait 30 years"

I've never been a hoarder so basses came and went. But with age comes wisdom...now I'm old enough to know I screwed myself...

Happy Trails

Cynical1

[lpf3]

I probably have too much to say about this .......

I live within very short driving distance from the Fender factory in Corona, Ca , & when they advertised a job opening for a tune-tester at the custom shop ( a few years ago ), I jumped on it. When the interviewer pointed out that the job paid less than half what I'm makin in the cabinet business I muttered something lame like " I don't care I just wanna make guitars " Thankfully she didn't hire me , but I was disappointed at the time .

I have a friend who used to work there as a spray finisher & he tells me it's all about numbers. It could be guitar necks or coffee table legs , either way ya gotta make alot of 'em. Fast .

I'm guessin' there are precious few artisans in Fortune 500 boardrooms.

I have a $169 butterscotch Affinity series tele That I can't tell that much difference from a $1500 '52 reissue. Honestly can't, and after shielding , a T-Riffic mod & string-thru ferrules , the Affinity will be nicer. And maybe I can kick it around in the yard & leave it out in the rain & sell it as a relic for 3 grand.

Idealism aside, its probably why American business works, and I'm still workin for American business

-lpf3

[andy]

I was chatting recently with a bass player who used to work for Gibson. I didn't ask how long ago, 'coz I know the company has had its quality up and downs, but he worked on most aspects of building along the way, and I think he said he ended up running part of the factory. I got the impression that like any company, hours seemed to outweigh pay and moral was not so high, but on paper- what a job!

[sumgai]

It has long been noted that the more costly an item, be it a guitar or a car or whatever, the more one has to expect that it will not arrive from the factory in the desired condition. Indeed, a large part of the attraction (we tend to think that money should be getting us some Quality, with a capital Q) is the attention paid to (lavished upon) the item in question after it arrives at the dealer's shipping dock, and before it goes out to the showroom.

I can attest to this, as the wife just bought a new Mercedes, and it needed to go back to the dealer not once or twice, but three times before all the little "gotcha's" were finally sorted out. The dealer was top-notch, he even gave us a loaner of equal value(!) when he needed to keep it overnight, so we're not complaining at all. But you'd think.......... yeah, right.

Ever walked into a brand new home that's for sale? The more it costs, the more faults you can find with what the builder didn't do, or didn't finish, or just plain screwed up. 'Struth! To my mind, it would appear that the builder added on a lot of "OMG, would you look at that feature!" whiz-bang goodies, but in the end, the deep-down quality depended on his basic workmen, and their paychecks weren't any higher than the guy who built the projects on the other side of the tracks.

In the case of most guitars, it seems paradoxical, but the more one pays for a beast, the more it needs loving attention from a gifted technician, before you are truly comfortable with it. I've seen Squiers come onto the floor of GC with a better action and feel than $1K real Strats....... Even PRS axes at my local mom-and-pop store (A#, in Renton) need some care, they aren't perfect either. In fact, it might be interesting to see what mlrpa has to say when his outfit starts getting in those Reverend guitars.

Robert Heinlein said it best: TANSTAAFL. If one thinks that quality is a lunch that they paid for in the initial purchase price, they should review Robert's famed quote.


I'm not saying anything here, ya know, I'm just sayin', tha's all.



sumgai

[mr_sooty]

sumgai said:

In fact, it might be interesting to see what mlrpa has to say when his outfit starts getting in those Reverend guitars.

Great guitars those. I have a Club King RT. Very nice.

[ChrisK]

That would be why the taxi drivers in Germany have gone with BMW some years back..........

[blueswaite]

I have had a Deluxe Players Strat for 4 months. So far had to replace the volume pot and now it is at the techs because either the switch is bad or the neck pickup.
Out of about 7 I tried 5 had prolems right for the factory.
Also been checking out the Standard strats and on almost all I have tried you could almost cut yourself going down on the side of the fretboard from the frets. Few years back I never noticed these problems.
yes I feel Fenders quality is sinking.

[D2o]

Also been checking out the Standard strats and on almost all I have tried you could almost cut yourself going down on the side of the fretboard from the frets.

Man, I hate that. That is unacceptable quality on the children's / beginner's guitars that you see at "Toys R Us" ... it's intolerable on a Fender.

This is part of why I never buy new guitars - it sounds very disappointing.