clr
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Post by clr on Jan 28, 2008 8:02:22 GMT -5
Get your head out of the gutter  On a Les Paul, is there any way to spot the wood? Particularly between Alder or Mahogany? |
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Post by kuzi16 on Jan 28, 2008 8:18:04 GMT -5
on some yes.
the binding is there to hide that line.
however, on SOME LPs you can see the line.
vintage vs. new...
look down the neck from the headstock at the body (the side with the pickup selection) on a vintage LP.(god, I hope I'm remembering this correctly) Close to where the neck meets the body you will see that the binding gets wider. this is to accommodate for the arch in the guitar and to cover the line between the woods.
on a newer LP the binding will not dip (to costly and time consuming) and there is a short line in there that may be seen. that is the split between the woods.
I could have that backward but i think I'm right. i hope I'm right. I also hope thats what you were asking about.
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clr
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Post by clr on Jan 28, 2008 11:54:33 GMT -5
I was asking the type of wood the guitar was made from. Differentiating between Alder and Mahogany besides tonal characteristics mahogany  alder  Short from taking the backplate off |
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Post by kuzi16 on Jan 28, 2008 12:21:55 GMT -5
i was a bit confused about the question because i thought that LPs were made from mahogany with a figured top. ... not alder with the top. ... i ran with it anyway. sorry i wasnt more help  |
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clr
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Post by clr on Jan 28, 2008 12:57:17 GMT -5
Quite alright buddy.
The cheaper LP copies are made of other woods, such as Alder. I'm up for buying one, but I want the body to be mahogany so all I have to do is switch the pickups.
And I've got myself a cheap(er) studio Les Paul:)
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Post by Runewalker on Jan 28, 2008 21:39:51 GMT -5
Well "The cheaper LP copies" are of course, not Les Pauls. Mahogany is a distincitve tropical wood. Your pix is pretty good. Here are additional links. Mahoganyhobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/mahogany,%20african.htm Alderhobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/alder.htmMahogany tends to be browner or even redder than alder. It has more detail in its grain figure. It also is a little "pore-y." Gibson never used alder in its bodies. Especially since Leo did. They were competitors, and Leo was the Henry Ford of guitars, saving pennies where he could. Alder was cheaper than mahogany, another way that Gibson tried to distinguish itself as a premium product. As for the Asian knockoffs. You might see a range of woods. I see a lot of Basswood, with photo or veneer flame maple. I have seen Agathis used and various other plentiful and cheap Asian woods. Which is why on bursts you will see the backs painted opaque, besides it being faster and less skilled (cheaper) to do so. I have an actual Gibson Les Paul, and couple of Asian knockoffs. The Asians don't use mahogany, and don't even used a carved maple cap and .... I love them. I changed out the pups, modded the wiring, and they sound great. I dialed in the action and intonation and I can bang them around without worrying that I am hurting the sales value of my vintage instruments. I don't hear a significant difference in the bass bod, no cap units and the actual mahogany, carved maple top Gibby. Especially when cranked. Maybe if I try hard to hear a difference I can in clean mode. But if you want clean .... strats do a better job anyway, except I can get a pretty credible big box jazz sound from the LP and the knockoff, that the strat can't get. I have never, ever seen an alder bodied LP or LP knock off. That is very unlikely. |
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clr
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Post by clr on Jan 28, 2008 22:09:26 GMT -5
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Post by newey on Jan 28, 2008 22:34:39 GMT -5
Well, clr-
If the store guy inspected these and found them to be mahogany, ask him to show you what they inspected and how they knew it was mahogany. If he's unwilling/unable to demonstrate how they arrived at that conclusion, you're entitled to take that as being merely sales fluff and assume it's alder/whateverwood.
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Post by Runewalker on Jan 28, 2008 22:44:50 GMT -5
I know they're not real LPs, but for descriptions sake  Ok, Ok. This is a wadded-panties free zone. Alder, mahagony..... I don't know I would get exorcised either way in a knock off. If it is a knockoff it is unlikely to have the maple cap, which may be more significant in contribution to percieved tone than the body wood. I woud be suspect of any claim of alder body wood though. hey, its a knock off. what does it matter? Play it and decide if you like the sound independent of knowing the wood. Wood is so variable anyway, that 2 guitars made of different trees of the same species, or even in different parts of the tree, or different slices of the mill, will sound different. |
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Post by ChrisK on Jan 29, 2008 1:08:37 GMT -5
Actually, the Epi LP (they ain't "copies" since Gibson owns them) models are often made out of mahogany with an alder cap.
Epi has several wood blend recipes for their LP models.
Remember, alder is the "chicken" of guitar woods. It has a nice even tonal response and is suitable for most music.
Mahogany tends to be soft and "middy". Swamp ash tends to be mid notched, with strong lows and highs. It's sort of like the convoluted acoustic foam "mate" to mahogany.
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Post by jkemmery on Jan 29, 2008 8:38:07 GMT -5
Honestly, I'm not sure how much of either the salesperson or the company's websites statements I'd trust. The website also lists their strat copy guitars, which list to body wood as "solid chinese wood", no kidding!
For what they are asking for that, you can get an Epi Les Paul that is real mahogany and has a real maple cap.
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Post by ChrisK on Jan 29, 2008 12:58:41 GMT -5
Personally, I go for Mandarin or Sechuan............
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clr
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Post by clr on Jan 30, 2008 0:31:55 GMT -5
My self paranoia serving true, the website probably tracks when they are linked on other websites, like I did here.
And I got a reply back as to how they got the diagnosis of mahogany through the physical coloration, an enclosed PDF of the catalogue listing the LC3 as mahogany, and a side-by-side reference of a studio Gibson LP and the LC3.
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clr
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Post by clr on Feb 3, 2008 14:17:16 GMT -5
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Post by newey on Feb 3, 2008 15:23:17 GMT -5
clr- I'll second that.
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Post by sumgai on Feb 3, 2008 16:08:56 GMT -5
clr, Two things..... One, please reduce the overall size of that image, OK? If it causes the viewer to scroll horizontally, then reading the page becomes a chore, some would even say a hassle.  Thanks. Two, notice that square hole for the wires? That didn't come aboot as a result of drill bit moving in the same direction as we're looking, I can assure you of that!  Plainly, the body was capped with a top, after that channel was routed. In a small portion next to that square hole, the cap wood grain almost looks like mahogany, but I can't be sure one way or the other. The main body wood appears to be basswood, or it could even be ramen, the two look similar. Basswood is a bit heavier though. Soft woods like these tend to show the router's "layers" more easily, as we're seeing in your image. My perusal of the occasional Gibson (with gen-u-wine mahogany) usually reveals a routed surface nearly as smooth as the exterior of the guitar body. But before you believe anything we might say here, wait until Runewalker gives you his opinion. 'Struth! ;D HTH sumgai |
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Post by Runewalker on Feb 5, 2008 8:41:26 GMT -5
Gee SG, thanks for the vote of confidence. You, CK, JKemmery and a number of others have building, repair and modding experience I would readily defer to.
I don't know that I can tell much from the pix related to typing the wood. My guess would lean towards the one you made. Color looks a little lighter than mahogany, but I have seen occasional lighter mahogany samples. I don't see the subtle characteristics of mahogany in the small backplate recess you would normally expect, but that reveal is too little for me to feel comfortable saying yay or nay.
Like you I was more struck by the odd routing. I scratched my head on the square pot routs. Could be your idea of a glued up top, but that still seems like an odd manufacturing technique. I also knitted my brows over the reveal not being painted while the rest of the cavity was.
The wood does seem soft because of all the tooling marks. Dull tools can tear hardwoods, but I suspect the typical Asian trash wood.
I still am perplexed about the urgency to secure mahogany in an Asian knockoff. Unless it is mail order and you want to try to get a chassis as close as possible to an LP. I did not read the start of this carefully. I will say I have a knockoff with a basswood bod and a veneer flame top, and after swapping the pups and dialing in the setup, it is one of my favorite players.
If I were building one I would not use basswood, and for years I had a bias against it. However, I do have about 3 guitars with bods made of it. And they sound great.
Not to get into my normal rants, but hey, its a "solid body" not an acoustic. Yes wood type can affect tone, but less on a proportional basis than the electronics and routing/bridging system. And if you play with amp/boxes distortion/saturation subtleties of wood type contribution to sound profiles fade.
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Post by andy on Feb 5, 2008 10:38:40 GMT -5
Not entirely on-subject, here, but it's good to hear a positive users opinion of basswood, rather than just "Well, it's not exactly Light Ash, is it?".
I have not bothered trying a handful of Fender instruments because they were made of basswood (Jap P-bass and Squier Tele bass in particular) because all the opinions I had read were very so-so on the material. And especially with bass guitar, the sound of the thing played alone is not very representative of its sound within the band, so I have avoided the risk. Perhaps I should give it a go after all.
No idea on that wood in the picture though... it looks almost yellow to me. Could it be Korina or something?? I know epiphone have used that a lot lately.
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Post by sumgai on Feb 5, 2008 15:08:17 GMT -5
Rune, Yeah, we may have been around since dirt was invented, but we all know that you were the inventor! ;D Couple of points come to mind........ The extra routing for the pots is probably a strength thing. If that thinness were to stretch all the way across the cavity, it wouldn't take much of a hit on a control knob, and POOF! instant "Customized by Captain Crunch".  The whiteness might be a paint, possibly a shielding type that's white, but it's more likely a primer intended to stave off moisture absorbtion, there in the dank monsoon regions of our planet. And I'll take your word for it on that basswood thing. sumgai |
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Post by Runewalker on Feb 5, 2008 22:19:49 GMT -5
Yeah, we may have been around since dirt was invented, but we all know that you were the inventor! SG Uh ... thanks SG, brothers in soil. yes perhaps a little of a side road on the topic, but more of a question posed about the criticality of getting a mahagony core. Looking at the back cavity rout, the thing is not built like a Les Paul anyway .... but may play and sound great on its own merits -- or not. I am not trying to advocate basswood, agathis, pine, etc. The comments are not necesarily positive about basswood, more that conventional wisdom, may not be so wise. Personal preferences here are still the heft of a Les Paul with mahogany and a thick maple cap. Rather I am sheepishly admitting that my initial biases have been exploded as this hobby was pursued. I have found great sounding chassis made of materials that my former biases would have dismissed. Basswood is one of them. The biggest surprise was a plywood body with a swimming pool rout. I would have made faces and cursed the moon that a travesty of that dimension dared cross my presence. A friend had it and I conceded to a build. New high quality pups and a GN2 wiring scheme and it is rich sounding, stable guitar. D@mn! another busted myth. I suspect that the hard and nearly integrating poly shells of the softwood bodies have made them viable, resisting the denting propensities of softwoods. One thing to consider. The most annoying trend is this chambered stuff. Now I know some luminaries here are devotees of this approach, and more power to all of you. But to chamber a Les Paul is somehow an affront to the god of Lester. If Les can handle 8-10 lbs at the age of 80+ ... come-on, stop whining. That said the lighter woods are a kind of chambered body with more air in the cell structure --- With the exception of the solid hardwood center block. Where the big difference there is the more stable bridge coupling in Tunos and one-piece bridges. Where it matters less is in trem bods. So a cheap way to get the "benefits" of a chambered bod is buy a light wood bod. |
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Post by andy on Feb 6, 2008 9:08:23 GMT -5
Point taken, Rune.
In fact, now you mention it, I have a plywood P-bass with a vast under-pickguard route, and a cheap, unsealed, spraypaint finish (my own 'handywork'!). Technically, utter rubbish, but I can't bring myself to get rid of it- theres a warm almost double bass like undertone to the sound which I have yet to find anywhere else...
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Post by ccso8462 on Feb 7, 2008 0:20:26 GMT -5
Doesn't look like any mahogany I've seen |
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prolife
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Post by prolife on Nov 2, 2008 9:21:10 GMT -5
i had a fake epiphone i tried to get it identified as a fake based on the wood. i have broken sg i assumed it would be the same colour if it was mahogany. this fake was pine acording to a local timber merchant but there are 500 types of mahogany!!! i'm not sure if they all are the same colour. www.warmoth.com/guitar/options/options_bodywoods.cfmthis is a great link. |
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Thanks.
Plainly, the body was capped with a top, after that channel was routed. In a small portion next to that square hole, the cap wood grain almost looks like mahogany, but I can't be sure one way or the other. The main body wood appears to be basswood, or it could even be ramen, the two look similar. Basswood is a bit heavier though. Soft woods like these tend to show the router's "layers" more easily, as we're seeing in your image. My perusal of the occasional Gibson (with gen-u-wine mahogany) usually reveals a routed surface nearly as smooth as the exterior of the guitar body.
