mesa tubes

[night0wl]

Hi all,

I have a Mesa/Boogie .22 Studio + combo and I recently bought a pair of Mesa EL84 tubes for it. While I was there the shop assistant recommended using ONLY Mesa tubes in their amps, saying "it has something to do with the biasing of the amp" (almost word for word! lol ). Is there any difference between using Mesa tubes or any other EL84 tube, besides the price?

Cheers,
Shane

[UnklMickey]

sounds like salesmanship to me.

while the chinese make tubes in a full range from good enough to total crap, most other manufacturers are making tubes that do a good job of meeting design specs. the variations from different lots from the same manufacturer are often greater than the difference between the average of manufacturer A compared to the average of manufacturer B.

to the best of my knowledge, mesa doesn't manufacture their own tubes. they are probably re-branded russian tubes.

some houses are pre-sorting tubes according to bias requirements. you can buy tubes that will idle "hotter" or "colder" (more or less plate current) for a given bias setup.

you can use tubes that run hotter, so that they go into saturation sooner and get more distortion at lower output levels.

but unless they are pre-sorted,
i doubt you'll have any reason to buy mesa instead of JJs or svetlana (winged c).

some folks swear by sovtek or groove tubes.

it does seem like different manufacturers do a better job on different types.

so there is no hard and fast rule on who makes the best tubes.

also, not all types are available from all manufacturers. but most are adding more types as time goes on.

[pollyshero]

Unk is correct - salesmanship to the nth degree!

Everything I've read on tube manufaturers shows that there are less than factories still in existence. Mesa does NOT manufacture their own tubes - they're contracted from the offshore manufacturer. Also, with any "brand" you buy - you're likely to be buying one or two that were made in the same factory anyway. I think the difference in "quality" goes to the highest bidder for pick of the litter.

Google "tube manufacturing" and read up on the overwhelming amount of info to help you choose a brand to start with. Once you've found a tube that meets the specs you want, let your EARS be the judge.

[night0wl]

Cool thanks guys

[Runewalker]

The dude at EuroTubes responded to a question from a bud-o-mine re: retubing his Boogie.

Disclaimer: I don't rep his site or JJs etc. And he is a JJ distributor. But this reponse goes to the original ? of the thread. Use adequate amounts of salt.

------ original ? to Bob of Eurotubes from my bud -------

"I bought this amp brand new from Mesa in the early 80's . Have never changed the power tubes. Amp is sounding, well just plain... no tube juicy tone. Clean sounds are very clean and loud, but not near as musical sounding as I remember. The lead drive at Vol1-10, Vol2-10, then master up to 3-5 = a ratty sound, like a poor distortion stompbox. It used to sing. I have replaced all of the preamp tubes from the original Mesa 12at7's with Groove Tubes thinking this would help. It did not. Would old power tubes cause this lifeless tone?

I took a break from playing in the 90's, but am back gigging a lot again. The old Boogie thang, "you must buy tubes from Mesa due to Boogies having a set bias". Can I can buy a quad set from you that can match the tube specs that Mesa touts? Mesa seems to change mfgs. of their 6L6's at a moments notice. I need suggestions and info. Appreciate your time in getting this baby to sing again."

------ Bob's reply -------

Mesa tubes and GT tubes are 99% chinese and sovtek tubes so I'm not surprised that you heard a flat non-musical tone from the tube change... As for the Mesa power tubes I literally have hundreds of Mesa branded tubes here that have been abandoned by local players after listening to the JJ's and most of them are brand new right off the showroom floor. Mesa would lead you to believe that their tubes are magical and blessed and sprinkled with magic dust by some mystical Gnome from the Black forest in Bermuda shorts... In fact there is nothing special about Mesa tubes except the astronomical price, they are all over the place and most of them are too cold to get the bias up to even a fair level. Even the hottest tubes I have which are a lot hotter than Mesa grades will still not get the amp up to where it should be for the best tone but they will exceed Mesa specs.
Here is what I do with them to get the best tone. The Mesa MK IIB 100's are fixed bias at a pretty cold setting so any matched quad of 6L6 type tubes including the JJ Electronic 6L6GC's are just plug and play. Because of the cold setting I would go with a hotter set of tubes. The front end uses 4 12AX7's so I would use four of the JJ ECC83S preamp tubes and I would make one a balanced ECC83S for V4 ( the closest preamp tube to the power tubes ) because it's the phase inverter and a balanced PI tube will help smooth the amp out. The JJ's have a very deep tight low end, a natural harmonically rich mid and a smooth sweet high end with a nice sparkle that's not brittle. These tubes both power and pre would be plug and play.

The only other option would be if you want any of the preamp tubes premium graded for gain which would run 2.00 more per tube. The high gain ECC83S's have about 10% more gain than standards which adds a bit of bite and a sharper dynamic but does not hurt the clean tone. The other attribute that these tubes have is a faster filament rise time which is great for an EVH, Malmsteen, Petrucci or Satrani type style and is also good for fast palm mute and metal styles. If you decide to use these I would use them in V1, V2 and V3 which would add 6.00 to the cost below.

A full retube with a matched quad of the JJ 6L6GC's and four ECC83S's with one balanced for the PI would run 93.00 and I can ship and insure them by Priority mail for 6.00 with a 3 day delivery anywhere in the US. If you want only the power tubes they are 59.00 a quad and the same 6.00 to ship.

If you decide to place an order you can do so online ( www.eurotubes.com/euro-order.htm ). This is a Comodo certified secure system, but please don't feel obligated to order online you are always welcome to just give me a call at 503-659-7401 to place an order personally. You can also place an order by FAX at 503-659-7385 All that's necessary is your shipping address and a VISA, MC, Discover or American Express number including the expiration date. If you decide to order by phone and you get my machine I'm probably in the studio retubing an amp so leave a number and I WILL call you back!

Thanks

Bob.