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Post by cynical1 on Mar 30, 2008 12:23:23 GMT -5
Greetings -
This is more of a generic question rather then one based on a specific amp.
I am currently amp-less and for the past several months I've been playing my bass through the computer. Simple, stupid, yeah, the digital effects are cool, but the little $50.00 Yamaha computer speakers just ain't makin' it...and being folically challenged the headphones keep sliding off...
With two guitar projects in the works I'm also gonna need an amp for them, but funds are about as scarce for two amps as petty cash at Bear Sterns...
...so I did some thinking...
Going under the premise that bass amps sound best with a bass, and the bass tends to cause an embolism inside a guitar amp...why not look for a full range amp...ergo a keyboard amp. One amp for both guitar and bass. This would benefit me in only having to plead my case once to the better half...
I've never used a keyboard amp for bass and guitar, and don't know anyone who has, aside from a Stick player...but that's another story...
Anyone out there ever used a keyboard amp for guitar and bass? Did it work, or was it more theory then practice?
All comments welcomed.
Happy Trails
Cynical1
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Post by ChrisK on Mar 30, 2008 13:30:17 GMT -5
Well, there's that whole '59 Bassman fiasco!
(Using a bass amp fer a geetar, who'da thunk.)
More like inside the speaker cabinet as the guitar speakers usually aren't enclosed in an acoustic suspension cabinet (as many bass speaker's are - reason is) and become "unloaded" below the resonant frequency of the speaker/box combination.
Excursion galore - ugh, too much!
And guitar output transformers can be kinda thin at an octave below (which actually helps protect the speakers).
You betcha. I used one for about two years. It's called a PA system. I used it with modeling pedals until I started buying specific amps.
Since I had the PA (it was small), I used it (and still do for reference testing on new guitar and pedal acquisitions (reference is), I didn't need a keyboard amp until I started buying keyboards (well, synths).
One of the first guitar amps that I bought was a Fender Acoustasonic PRO with the wide response and SFX (or sumpthin') Spatial sound expandicator. Although I bought it for use with electro-acoustic guitars (piezo), I liked it for the regular electric guitars since the expanded sound kept me practicing about twice as long. (And then they invented that there G-DEC, which is even more fun.)
I've since gone in tubeful and tubeless directions, with a focus on the tubeful one.
But, I still like the wide bandwidth ones with bass, mid, and tweeterschnitzel. Bandwidth is easy to remove if ya gots it. It's real hard to add if ya don't. That's why we invented crapafiers (sorry, effects). It's a lot easier to get clean dirty than dirty clean.
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Post by sumgai on Mar 30, 2008 13:56:18 GMT -5
c1, Well, it's like this.......... It all depends. And your mileage may vary. And the weaselslawyers are gonna get their say too, so guess what - it's not only not black and white, it's not even close to any shade of grey either. GerFooey!  If you're not a Tone Nazi ®, then yes, a keyboard/bass amp will work more than fine, it'll work great. Keep in mind that these things tend to be full frequency range units, and that some have tone controls that work well, while others........  What you get out of this is gobs of power (the lowest register requires mucho wattage to make a dent in the atmosphere), and the ability to produce a very clear sound from your pedals (or even from your computer). Plus, you get a free Charles Atlas/Joe Weider course in body building - the combo units are notoriously not lightweight, boobykins!  (Although there's hope on the horizon.) If you are a Tone Nazi ®, then forget everything I just said, I was speaking with a forked tongue.  Guitar amps do add color to the overall tone of your instrument, usually in a desirable way. Finding the right amp is the Holy Grail for such persons, and as you may have guessed by now, I'm not in that camp. (This from the person who owns not one, but two FTRs.  ) At my age, life has gotten far too short for such shenanigans. I suspect that you're in the same boat, although my appearance more nearly approximates your avatar than you do, apparently. (Thus necessitating the paper bag in my avatar!) ;D If I were to make a recommendation, I'd say: you can't go wrong with a combo made by either Peavey, Fender or Ampeg. I'm speaking mostly of those that have 1 15"er and a horn of some sort. Usually 100 watts will sound decent, but more's better. (And of course, much more is much better! ;D) Some of these have features that may attract you, that's cool. But always remember that at the end of the night, you're the roadie, and you're now feeling your age....... if you pick a hundred-pounder, you're gonna swear on a stack of Bibles that in the morning, it's going on craigslist, in trade for something lighter! Ask me how I know this for a fact!!  And of course, these all handle a bass axe just fine.  About that weight thing...... there's a new type of speaker magnet out now, usually known as Neo, which stands for Neodymium magnets. They're much lighter in weight, handle insane amounts of power, and cost only a small fraction more than the old-style Alnico or Ceramic magnet speakers. If you happen to trip across a unit with one of these, I recommend that you stop, back up, and give it another listen. The weight savings alone should make you think twice about passing it up. If necessary, you can rent out your kid to make the nut. That's my core dump for the morning! Good luck with both parts of your quest!  HTH sumgai p.s. For the record, I use a Strat that's been "lightly breathed upon" ( bare essentials here), and feed that into a Roland GR-33 and/or a Roland VG-88(v2). For practice and most smaller venues, all of that goes into a "small" Fender Bassman 200. Sounds outstanding, according to all two of my fans. (Let's not go into what I have to cart around to fill a large venue, eh? My back hurts just thinking about typing all that into this post!) |
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 30, 2008 14:50:05 GMT -5
Thanks for offering some reassurance on this idea. My thought has always been that if it sound like a good idea to me...dig a hole...
First off, I would hardly consider myself a Tone Nazi... More of a Tone Buddhist. I've had to work with some "unique" equipment over the years and learned to make the best sound possible and play through it like I had an Ampeg...
I remember seeing these guys on Maxwell Street playing with amps that look like they fell off a truck just jamming away...and they could take their rig home on a bus...that taught me that you play the instrument, not the amp...
I'm not going to be gigging anymore. Where I live now the musical tastes range from Country to Jurassic Rock...no blues players for hundreds of miles... Capital outlay is more of an issue then physical size...I've got 6 horses, so throwing heavy things around is the norm. This is just going to be at the ranch for fun and amusement.
Again, thanks for chiming in. And CK, if I win the lottery I'll be sure to try out that whole Bassman thingy... ;D
Happy Trails
Cynical1
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Post by newey on Mar 30, 2008 15:50:54 GMT -5
Cyn1- Let us know what you find. I, too, need a bass amp as I just bought a basket case P bass copy for a project. But I'd like it to double as a second guitar amp for those occasional late-night jams. Reason enough to get the blues. But perhaps there's a crossroads nearby? . . .  |
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 30, 2008 16:30:39 GMT -5
Reason enough to get the blues. But perhaps there's a crossroads nearby? . . . ohhh...painful... Makes me want to Dust My Broom...but, I Ain't Superstitious...I Know What You're Putting Down...you're Just Messin' With The Kid...but, I'm Ready... Well, enough of that...I'm Tired, and The Thrill Is Gone... I'll keep you posted...Further On Up The Road Happy Trails Cynical1 (Thanks go to: Elmore James, Willie Dixon, Louis Jordan, Junior Wells, Muddy Waters, Savoy Brown, B.B. King and Bobby 'Blue' Bland) |
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Post by sumgai on Mar 30, 2008 16:32:37 GMT -5
c1, Horses! Been there, done that, bought the pooper-scooper....... They say that horses are the third biggest money pits, after houses and boats - they're right!!! To heck with renting out a kid to pay the bills, do this: Bring in a rig on prospectus, and set it up in the barn; corral all the horses into the barn; play until one of the six litters the floor - that's the one to sell, the poor critter is gonna keep doing that, every time you crank it. Presto! now you've got the geld to bring in a nice rig. ;D (And I ain't talkin' a dressage rig, either! ) HTH sumgai p.s. Any Fender Bassman combo is available on eBay or craigslist for a very reasonable price. (No blues players within 100 miles? Probably no craigslist either, eh? Just do the best you can.) Last year, I paid 200 smackers for mine. That's what, about two truck-loads of unspoiled Timothy? p.p.s. Further thoughts...... look for a tweeter, in any combo you choose. (Or even in a stack setup.) That's your assurance that it probably can do the full frequency spectrum, fairly faithfully. Not many tube amps fit this description, yet there's a Sagan of Fender tube Bassman amps on eBay. Just be aware, tha's all I'm saying here, ya know? |
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 30, 2008 17:08:09 GMT -5
Sumgai -
Actually, the horses are cheaper then the kids...definitely cheaper then a Harley or a boat...
Grow my own hay do my own training and do all the farrier and vet work but the heavy stuff...saves me enough to buy...a cheap used amp...
Anyways...My horse likes Buddy Guy, the wife's horse likes Santana...our mare likes Stevie Ray...but the other ones have no preferences...
They do like it when you play chords way up on the bass, or harmonics...they all come up to the fence with their ears up...must be closet Jaco fans...
Shipping is what kills me up here. Gotta keep it under 50 watts or UPS puts another kid through college...
Happy Trails
Cynical1
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Post by sumgai on Mar 30, 2008 20:12:27 GMT -5
c1, "Shipping is what kills me up here." Where's that, eh? And I'm sure you were being cynically sarcastic about the 50 watts, eh? It's really all about the weight of a package, eh? So maybe, since you're not gonna haul the thing hither and yon, you might be better off with a stack-style setup, eh? String it together as the budget allows, so to speak, eh? sumgai |
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Post by ccso8462 on Mar 31, 2008 14:07:21 GMT -5
Folks, I have been using a Peavey KB-2 keyboard amp for guitar and bass for the youth group at church. The guitar is run through my POD xt and the bass goes through a Korg signal processor. It is not the best sound that can be had, but it keeps me from lugging around the Fender bass amp and the Bandit. I had the KB-2 on hand for the Roland kayboard at home, and it is adequate for our needs, but if I had forseen that I would use it for this, I would have bought the Peavey KB-3 due the fact it has individual channel volumes (like the KB-2) but also has a master volume so it acts somewhat as a mixer. The KB-2 has a 12" speaker and the KB-3 has a 15" which would give a better bass response. Just my 2 cents.
HTH
Carl
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Post by andy on Mar 31, 2008 19:21:42 GMT -5
I would say something very similar to ccso8462. I got the impression that a keyboard amp was pretty much a mono P.A.- by itself it wont do a guitar sound any favours, but modelling units being what they are, they should give a guitar sound everything it needs to then be put straight out by a P.A./keyboard amp! If cost is a huge consideration, Line 6 have fairly recently brought out a mini POD ( line6.com/pocketpod/index.html ) which should shape things fine at a better price, and be nice and compact. So long as the amp can reproduce enough low frequencies it should be alright without any additional tone shaping- it might not sound like a 5'9" Ampeg rig, but then I've heard bass players use far less in the past. In fact I have just 'downgraded' to a 2x10 cab myself. |
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Post by lpf3 on Mar 31, 2008 19:40:08 GMT -5
Speaking of pods , I've been thinking of a Pocket Pod or Pod 2.0 as a computer recording tool. How are the amp tones , effects , etc.? ( Especially the clean sounds ) thanks, lpf3
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Post by andy on Apr 3, 2008 10:55:30 GMT -5
We already had a chat about that at... www.guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=Amps&action=display&thread=1156808289&page=2 The points I made there are pretty much what I have to say on Pods. To sum it up before you get there, they are fine for recording (even the sweetest amp is recorded via a mic, cable, desk etc, so will never be a pure 'boutique' amp by the time it makes it to your ears on record) just don't expect the full 'standing next to an amp in the room' experience when practising with a modeller. The clean tones in my opinion are fine- The Twin Reverb is my usual choice for clean, partly as I find the 'middle free' tone quite nice, and also because the similarity to the recorded amp was such a pleasant surprise, having used one in a studio just before buying the Pod. I think the 'just driven' tones are good too. As with real amps, you just have to choose the ones which do it well- the Fender Deluxe Reverb and Dumble Overdrive Special have particularly useable tones in that respect (in my opinion, of course). I must always say though it is worth trying stuff out before buying it- I was pleased with mine, but there are plenty of shops willing to demonstrate gear (especially nice quiet modellers!) -take a good quality pair of headphones and see if you agree. |
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What you get out of this is gobs of power (the lowest register requires mucho wattage to make a dent in the atmosphere), and the ability to produce a very clear sound from your pedals (or even from your computer). Plus, you get a free Charles Atlas/Joe Weider course in body building - the combo units are notoriously not lightweight, boobykins! 
(Although there's hope on the horizon.)
Guitar amps do add color to the overall tone of your instrument, usually in a desirable way. Finding the right amp is the Holy Grail for such persons, and as you may have guessed by now, I'm not in that camp. (This from the person who owns not one, but two FTRs. 
) At my age, life has gotten far too short for such shenanigans. I suspect that you're in the same boat, although my appearance more nearly approximates your avatar than you do, apparently. (Thus necessitating the paper bag in my avatar!) ;D
