Effects Loops: pro or con?

[morecowbell]

Can anyone set the record straight on whether effects loops are necessary or not and what you gain from using them?

I play through a Tech 21 Trademark 60.
Right now I have a Boss EQ, an EH #1 Echo, an Octave Fuzz and a Boss Loop Station (not in that order) running through the amp's effects loop becasue...well, because effects go in the effects loop, right?

Does it really matter, though? Am I gaining/losing anything by using the loop vs. just putting them between my guitar and amp? I've also heard you shouldn't use things like a Wah in an effects loop because it will sound weak. And then I've heard people say that effects loops in general are not really necessary.

Any thoughts pro or con are appreciated. Thanks.

[ccso8462]

Effects don't necessarily go in the loop. Normally chorus, distortion/overdrive, wah all go between the axe and the amp. For delay type effects, including reverbs, it is really nice to have an effects loop. I've run my pedals both ways, since my old Fender Vibrochamp has no loop, but my Peavey Bandit does. It will work both ways, but the sound you get will depend a lot on what effect and how much of it you are using. When I use a distortion pedal I can use more delay in a straight FX sequence (axe-effects-amp), but if I'm pushing the amp's input tubes it sounds better to have time FX in the loop.

I think if you do a search here, you'll find some pretty good info on effects orders and using your FX loop.

[morecowbell]

thx cc,

Yeah, I'll do a search and get the lay of the land on this. I know opinions will vary on effect order, placement, ac power vs. batteries, etc. Plus, it's all subjective to your own ears and what you like, etc.

Just thought I'd check to see if there was a strong bias for or against using effects loops period before I dove into the deep end of the personal opinion pool.

For what it's worth, one thing I have already read elsewhere on the web says that one good thing about ELs is that the effects there act on a line level signal vs. the signal from you guitar only, meaning the effects in the loop will receive a stronger signal to act upon than do effects between the guitar and amp, thus making them sound more prominent. Again, whether this is good or not is up to you.

Also FWIW, I think my confusion on this issue began here: www.amptone.com/g182.htm

At the bottom of the page, the author comes out AGAINST el's in general. But I think he's referring to studio or live work where a mixer is involved, not for the average Joe at home.

Thanks again for your help.

[ashcatlt]

It's a matter of taste. Generally the loop is going to be after the preamp gain stage, and often the tone stack as well. If you're using that gain stage/tone stack to produce overdrive or other coloration, it will make a major difference where the effects sit in relation to it.

I personally prefer most of my guitar effects to come before the preamp. To my ears it just sounds more natural.

It should be obvious that things like boosters, eq's, and overdrives which are meant to push the front end of the amp into more clipping will only produce that effect at all if put before the preamp. An eq, though, could come in the effects loop if you wanted to use it for tone shaping of the overdriven signal which couldn't be accomplished by way of the built in tone stack.

Some (mostly older) wahs are built to interact directly with the pickups, and will work better when there's no buffers or gain stages in between. So, these usually have to be the first thing out of the guitar. I think the original TubeScreamer circuit is the same way. Built specifically for the impedance of typical pickups as an input, and sounds completely different if it's not first in the chain.

Most modern pedals (including the most popular wahs) have buffers at their inputs, and the circuits should respond the same wherever they are in the chain. But it's a matter of what they're working on that makes the difference.

If you're getting overdrive/distortion out of your guitar's preamp, you've got to decide for each effect whether you want to distort the effect or effect the distortion. That is, the preamp is "generating" a number of harmonics based on the input signal. Now, for example with a wah, would you rather have it produce harmonics based on the filtered (and resonant) signal coming out of the wah (before the amp) or would you rather apply the resonant filter to the harmonics (in the loop). I think before the amp will sound more like what we expect from a guitar/wah combination. In the loop it will sound more like the resonant filter on a synth. Sometimes I prefer to have the wah between two sources of overdrive/distortion.

The same basic concept can be applied to all other effects. Think about a delay pedal. Put it before the amp, set it pretty long with a good number of repeats. Hit one note and then let the delay trail off. You should notice that the repeats clean up as they fade out. Put it in the effects loop and (if we ignore the issue of power amp distortion) each repeat should sound exactly the same as the last, just a bit quieter. You might think that would sound better.

For me, though, I'm almost never just listening to the decaying repeats from my delay pedal. I'm usually playing another note as the first comes back around. I personally would rather hear the overdrive respond to the combination of the dry and repeating signal together...

In general, an effect placed in the loop will tend to sound more "digital" or "sterile" than one going into the preamp. The power amp and speaker cab will make it a little better than if the effect was patched in at the mixing board, but...

[morecowbell]

Thanks ash, appreciate it.
Guess I'll play around with things in and out of the loop and see what I like.
Think I'll always keep the EQ there though, since I use it to shape the overall sound vs. boosting or clipping the guitar signal.

[ashcatlt]

I'd say give it a try with the EQ in front of the amp, as well. I think the tone stack in an amp usually comes after the preamp gain stage. There are a number of people who will EQ both before and after an overdrive/distortion pedal. It's often used as a sort of pre/de-emphasis thing. Use the EQ in front to "determine" which frequencies distort first. Use the EQ after to shape the overall tone.

[morecowbell]

Intreresting. I've heard about that (using two EQs: one before, one after), but just thought it sounded like overkill. The way you explained it makes more sense, though. Think I'll hit Ebay for another one and give it a shot. Can always re-sell it later if I don't need it. Thanks.