setain
Meter Reader 1st Class
Posts: 56 
Likes: 0
|
Post by setain on Feb 2, 2008 22:30:11 GMT -5
I fail to understand what makes a 2-point vibrato better than a 6-point one. I mean, I do understand that the more points means more friction, but if the base is resting against the body (dive only configuration), how would that matter. If all things are the same (and not floating), shouldn't the 6-point stay in tune just well? Am I missing something?
|
|
|
|
Post by ChrisK on Feb 3, 2008 0:47:31 GMT -5
They're better because there are only two points of contact. The 6 screw vibrato has 6 screws, but due to drilling tolerances, only two of them (who knows which two) actually make contact until they wear and then the others gradually come into contact. The contact points (a misnomer in this case) are really the sides of screws and the holes in the vibrato base plate. Most base plates are not made correctly in that the holes are not countersunk properly. While there are aftermarket suppliers that will claim that they know how to set up a 6 screw vibrato, it's really a matter of luck. Some claim that by backing off on the screws a correct setup will occur. An evaluation from a mechanical engineering perspective shows that there is no way to prevent the base plate from sliding up and down the screw shank in operation. On the guitars that I have with a 6 screw vibrato, I set them for detune only, and never use them! You might ask why I have them. Well, they're real popular on certain guitars. Once locked down, the built-in reverb springs can be tuned for desired response.  The 2 point (not a misnomer) units have their screws and base plates engineered for proper point contact without sliding. |
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Feb 11, 2008 0:18:33 GMT -5
Chris, I've waited a few days to respond, just seemed like the right thing to do. You say that like it was a bad thing. Who cares if only two screws actually hold the bridge plate in place, either while in stationary mode, or while being tickled..... it still isn't going anywhere it shouldn't. BTW, due to those same tolerances, it's easy to conceive that a minimum of 3 screws could be in constant contact..... fulcrum's are cool. Ohhh?  And if the plate isn't contacting at least two screws at some point, just what is it doing? Whether the contact is spread across a 1, 2 or 3 dimensional surface, contact is still made. The argument about tolerances could be made as to the linearity of the surface itself being 'not perfectly flat', etc. I say, for our work, what contact is made is more than sufficient, even if it wouldn't be good enough for a NASA moon-shot. Yes, I've seen some lucky people in my time, but I've also seen some impressively experienced ones, too. Most of the latter group have some seriously happy customers, and I'd prefer to think that it weren't due to luck. It does, if all else is also done correctly. 'Sfunny, mine doesn't slide up and down as I rock the bridge. Oh wait..... I've got a 2-pointer. Ohhh, wait some more..... didn't we just agree that any 6-pointer is really a 2-pointer in disguise? Gee, silly me, thinking that if I crank on the whammy bar, the bridge won't respond like a proper 4-bar movement. Of course it will. The whole point of setting the screws correctly is to minimize any wasted motions, which in turn helps the overall smoothness and precision of returning to the correct pitch. How special for you! COWABUNGA!Hence, the marketing guys can justify to the buyer a higher price tag. Free Enterprise strikes again! ;D sumgai |
|
|
|
Post by mr_sooty on Feb 17, 2008 19:09:04 GMT -5
I have both types, the six point on my '57 reissue, and the two point with locking tuners and a roller nut on my US Deluxe. My vintage reissue stays in tune remarkably well. I can put it in a case, chuck it on a truck, drive to a different town, and when I get it out again it'll be perfectly in tune. The Deluxe wasn't anywhere near as consistent. I can 'dive-bomb' the vintage trem and find it stays pretty well in tune, but not the modern one. I just replaced the locking tuners with Kluson Deluxes because they look nicer, and I don't really think the Locking ones made a lot of difference.
|
|
|
|
Post by ChrisK on Mar 9, 2008 23:56:19 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by 1150lefty on Oct 24, 2009 16:30:14 GMT -5
On the guitars that I have with a 6 screw vibrato, I set them for detune only, and never use them! You might ask why I have them. Well, they're real popular on certain guitars. Once locked down, the built-in reverb springs can be tuned for desired response. Sorry for the bump, but I thought I was the only one who had this "mindset."  At least I'm not the only nut! |
|
|
|
Post by newey on Oct 24, 2009 18:15:59 GMT -5
We've got no objections to bumping! If it was an issue, we'd lock the thread . . .
I, too, use 6 screw vibratos, and screw them down tight. I rarely use the bar anyway. My one guitar that had a 2-post type frustrated me so much I replaced the bridge with a 6-screw one.
|
|
And if the plate isn't contacting at least two screws at some point, just what is it doing? Whether the contact is spread across a 1, 2 or 3 dimensional surface, contact is still made. The argument about tolerances could be made as to the linearity of the surface itself being 'not perfectly flat', etc. I say, for our work, what contact is made is more than sufficient, even if it wouldn't be good enough for a NASA moon-shot.
At least I'm not the only nut!
