Audio or Linear pots? now I'm really confused!!

[roboss]

Hi guys, first time posting on the forum and I hope it isn't a stupid question, but just what is the correct pots to use in a strat?

I've just recently completed the build of my custom Strat, using a nice MIM body, Allparts rosewood neck, Wilkinson vintage trem with steel block, Tonerider Classic Blues pickups, US Fender tuners, and CTS and Fender electrics, wired to the Tonerider diagram which is the same as the Std Strat.
And as recommended by my supplier, I used 3 Audio taper pots.

Here lies my problem, I'm finding that both my volume and tone controls don't give me a smooth progression of vol or tone, the vol for example, starts abruptly, then very quickly reaches max volume then does nothing for the next half of it's rotation!! The tone pots react the same, with only a small part of the rotation having any effect on the tone.

I've read loads of stuff on the web about this, and why audio pots are the correct ones to use because of how the human ear hears sound, etc etc. but if that's the case why don't my pots operate like my Hi Fi for example, or any sound system, where the volume and tone is a nice smooth progression through the full travel of the knob?

[newey]

Are they 250K pots? A higher resistance pot would give the effect you describe. It may not be a taper problem.

And when I say, "are they 250K" I mean have you checked them, as opposed to taking somebody's word for it.

And Hello and Welcome!

[roboss]

Hi

Thanks for the reply.

Yes they are 250K pots, and I used an OD .022 cap.

I didn't however test the pots resistence, but wouldn't that just affect the tone, ie making the sound brighter or darker depending on the actual value of the pot?

To add to my confusion, I've just found 'Original Fender' upgrade kit for sale, all parts appear to be in sealed packets and the 3 pots are all 250K, which I believe are linear!!!! So do Fender use 3 linear pots in new guitars?

[ChrisK]

Some questions come to mind.


First, a simple but not always obvious one. Are you left-handed and turning the pots backwards as compared to a right-handed operator? If you ARE left-handed and want controls that turn backwards (CCW is "10"), I do have a simple electronic solution for this, but you're on your own concerning the "knob knumbering".

Why do you believe the 250K pots are linear?

I didn't however test the pots resistance, but wouldn't that just affect the tone, ie making the sound brighter or darker depending on the actual value of the pot?

Yes, it will affect the overall brightness at the full-off rotation of the tone control as well as the loading effect of the volume control. A neat practice is to always use a 500K pot for tone. It will be at 250K at around "7-8" and be at "12" (brighter) when full on.

The taper (linear or audio) is the rate of change of the pot when rotated. This affects the rotational response of the control.


I always test every component that I use. They're easier to just not use than to unsolder and replace.

Test the pots. Measure the end terminal to end terminal resistance. Write it down and on the pot side with a black Sharpie marker.

Set the pot to exactly half its rotation. Measure the resistance from the wiper terminal to EACH end terminal.

If it is Linear, you will read about half the end to end resistance on each side of the element. Linear pots are often marked with a "B" for taper, but this varies.

If it is Audio, there will be a substantial difference (around 5 to 1 or more) in resistance on each side of the element. Audio pots are often marked with an "A" for taper.

Write an "A" or "L" on the side of the pot.


A linear taper volume pot turned from "0" to "2" has the same resistance ratio as an audio taper pot turned from "0" to "6". If the volume pot, when turned clockwise from "0", turns on abruptly, I suspect a linear taper.

A similar effect will occur for a linear tone control. The tone changes will occur abruptly and then not change much at all.


There are those a'planet that claim that linear controls are better for volume and/or tone, but I suspect that this is related to the blatant overuse of a Marshall full-stack over extended periods of time.

My 85 year old Father-in-Law calls this effect "Huh, eh?"

[roboss]

Hi

That's interesting, because I am left handed!!

However, I wired this exactly to the wiring dia for the Std Strat LH 0134620/4622 which is the same as the AM Strat LH 0117420/7422. I copied these from the Fender website.

The pots are 250K marked with an 'A' for audio. I removed them tonight and checked that they are indeed audio pots.

Incidentally as a check I swopped the pots for an older set I have, this made no noticeable difference to the guitar.

So what I have is a Strat, which has been wired in accordance with the Fender diagram, ( I have triple checked the installation!) I fitted a Fender 5 way switch and the recommended 3 CTS audio pots, as listed in the Fender Parts list.

Chrisk

You said, referring to a 'linear' tone pot,

"The tone changes will occur abruptly and then not change much at all."

But that is exactly the effect I get from these audio pots,

ie: bright dull dull dull dull, depending on the direction of rotation of course.

And the volume is similar, with all the control appearing in approx 2/3 of the knobs rotation.

Do you think this is an effect of the Left hand wiring arrangement? or do all strats with audio pots operate this way?

[ChrisK]

Left hand wiring arrangement

Uh oh, what does this mean?

I'll take a look at the Fender drawings.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

And I have. You've been bushwhacked by the "handedness" of things guitar. The "Left Hand" wiring arrangement ( ) that you mentioned is too true to be good!

Some might call it marketing.

While the wiring to the pots is indeed reversed (mirror-image) between the two wiring diagrams, the pots ARE NOT. Both 013 MexiStrats that you reference use the 0013446000 250K audio taper pot. In both right-handed AND left-handed guitars, these are right-handed pots.

Furthermore, the 5-way switch terminals also are mirror imaged from the right-hand to the left-hand guitar. Both use the same 0053291000 switch.



When one connects audio taper pots backwards it makes linear taper pots look real special. Your pots are wired backwards. Your switch is likely wired ok.


Some fart-for-brains in their drafting department just mirror imaged the drawing for the left-hand guitar. This would work fine if the pots were left-handed (reverse audio taper). (It wouldn't hurt if there were reverse-numbered knobs too.)

(I remember when d'afting departments actually checked drawings prior to publishing them.)


You will have to follow the right-handed wiring for the pots. BTW the left-hand guitar shows the switch correctly, the right-hand guitar drawing is incorrect in the terminal positioning. If one followed the terminal sequence wiring order for the right-hand drawing of the switch, it would still work.


If you'd had the sensibility to use linear pots to begin with, this wicket wouldn't be sticky. ;D ;D


OK, I said that I had a way around right-handed pots, pan you see it.

If you want to know more, let me know.

[roboss]

WOW! that's major blunder.......

How many other lefties have used these diagrams to wire their gits!

Okay, can you let me know your 'solution' to this dilema.

Or I had thought I might rewire it, to include a blend pot to give me the bridge- neck option, master volume and tone. and the volume mod.

Would your solution work with this, or should I wire as right handed, I don't really care which way the knobs turn!

So could you really help me out here with a 'correct' diagram for the blend, master tone and volume mods ?

[ChrisK]

Okay, can you let me know your 'solution' to this dilemma.

You have it in mind, but need to see it.

Or I had thought I might rewire it, to include

a blend pot .......

which are not.

Would your solution work with this, or should I wire as right handed, I don't really care which way the knobs turn!

Pan away.

So could you really help me out here with a 'correct' diagram for the blend, master tone and volume mods

I could, but, these mods abound a'web. Visit the Stew Mac and Seymour Duncan sites.

The Strat already has a master volume. Remove the (now) master tone circuit from the 5-way switch and attach it to the hot end terminal of the volume pot. A pan pot to blend in (well, in this case it IS blending in) is just a series connection from the pickup to be blended in to the hot terminal on the volume pot (or 5-way switch).

The standard pan pots sold as blend pots will solve your handed problem (you won't have to rewire) as well as do the blending function.


You'll have to fix the knob knumbers yourself.

[D2o]

A linear taper volume pot turned from "0" to "2" has the same resistance ratio as an audio taper pot turned from "0" to "6". If the volume pot, when turned clockwise from "0", turns on abruptly, I suspect a linear taper.

I've had the pleasure of using one of these for tone... VERY disappointing result (even for me!).

My 85 year old Father-in-Law calls this effect "Huh, eh?"

Hmmm ... sage words from the wise one, whah? hey?

D2o

[roboss]

ChrisK

I'm sorry man, but your response defeats me!! instead of claryifing the situation your making it as muddy as the tone from my guitar!!

1.. You also seem to be implying that I should have known to use linear taper pots in the first place.. why? when everyone seems to recommend audio, with no mention of exception to that for LH!!

So are you saying that LH installations should use linear pots?

If so should they be wired as a mirror image of the RH version which uses audio?

Or as another alternative I should simply wire as RH.

Or, swop out the tone pots for 'blend' (pan) pots, but what about the volume pot? it would still be audio, or should that be swopped for linear?
Which diagram should I be working to? I assume the one which you said was wrong!!

You are also now directing me back to the myriad of right handed diagrams available on the web!!

To be honest I'm more confused now than I was before, Thanks!

Can I suggest that perhaps it would have been easier, less long winded and ultimately more helpful to simply post a diagram showing the correct wiring and detailing the correct pots to use for this application.

[D2o]

You also seem to be implying that I should have known to use linear taper pots in the first place.. why? when everyone seems to recommend audio, with no mention of exception to that for LH!!

So are you saying that LH installations should use linear pots?

Hi roboss,

I think Chris was saying that he doesn't think linear is a good idea, despite some deaf, old people who feebly counter that opinion. Huh? Ey?

If so should they be wired as a mirror image of the RH version which uses audio?

Or as another alternative I should simply wire as RH.

You could always go with right handed wiring and just turn the dials what may seem intuitively, for a lefty, in the "wrong" direction.

Your left-handed wiring throws a loop when, as Chris says, "Some fart-for-brains in their drafting department just mirror imaged the drawing for the left-hand guitar." But Chris does go on to write that "This would work fine if the pots were left-handed (reverse audio taper)*."

* And, yes, you still have to work out the knob knumbering.

Or, swop out the tone pots for 'blend' (pan) pots, but what about the volume pot? it would still be audio, or should that be swopped for linear?

Which diagram should I be working to? I assume the one which you said was wrong!!

You are also now directing me back to the myriad of right handed diagrams available on the web!!

To be honest I'm more confused now than I was before, Thanks!

The answer* is within your grasp, grasshopper (sorry, I've always wanted to say that)

Can I suggest that perhaps it would have been easier, less long winded and ultimately more helpful to simply post a diagram showing the correct wiring and detailing the correct pots to use for this application.

No ... meds ... long story ;D

The bottom line seems to be that you have a straighforward "RH" option if you use audio taper pots (mind that you don't wire the pots backwards), and a fairly straightforward LH option if you reverse all of the wiring and use reverse audio tapers.

D2o

[ashcatlt]

If you hang out long enough you'll get used to scratching your head after ChrisK's posts. As far as I can tell, he's always correct, except when he's mistaken, but is often fairly opaque. I think it's something about that "give a man a fish..." deal.

It has already been said that you can wire it up with the pots you've got, following the right-handed diagram, and just turn the knobs backwards.

You could also get reverse audio pots and wire them per the left-handed diagram and turn the knobs in a more intuitive direction.

I think that part of the point of the pan pot is that it may be easier to find in the values you're looking for than a reverse audio version. The pan pot has 2 elements. One goes righty and the other goes lefty. In this case you'll want to select the deck that gives the lefty action and wire it per the left-handed diagram.

There's another, somewhat less ideal solution. You could get linear taper pots, wire them per the left-handed diagram, and add a "tapering resistor" to aproximate reverse audio performance. Here's a link which might help in that pursuit.

[roboss]

Hi

I think I understand most of his long winded ramblings, but he does throw these confusing one liners in! ie:

quote: "If you'd had the sensibility to use linear pots to begin with, this wicket wouldn't be sticky."

What can you take from that other than, 'you should've used linear pots to begin with' !!
But that contradicts what he previously 'hinted' at!! Confusing or what??

By the way 'sensibility' is used totally out of context here!!

I'm sorry but if I had the knowledge and someone had a problem like this, I would have said, 'here you go mate, you need to use xxxx pots and wire as follows (diagram)'

Easy, job done!!

Then there is no confusion or ambiguity as to what route to take.

[D2o]

I think I understand most of his long winded ramblings, but he does throw these confusing one liners in! ie:

If you'd had the sensibility to use linear pots to begin with, this wicket wouldn't be sticky.

What can you take from that other than, 'you should've used linear pots to begin with' !!
But that contradicts what he previously 'hinted' at!! Confusing or what??

"Sensibility refers to an acute perception of or responsiveness toward something, such as the emotions of another."

I think he was just trying to frustrate you, so that you would get emotional and then the word would fit.

Welcome to GN2, roboss. You're not the first we've confounded and corrupted and, dammit, you won't be the last!

But we do like people to have an opportunity to be more than just confused. We like to give an opportunity to learn as well.

So, now that you have eventually come to know what you've come to know, it sounds like converting a RH diagram to a LH diagram is somewhat of a clerical task, right?

You just take the RH diagram and reverse the wiring of everything except the pots, which you will leave as wired in the RH diagram (so that they function as intended).

Draw it up, upload it to Photobucket (or whatever) and post a link so we can vet it ...

... we are happy to do so - free of charge.

D2o

[newey]

roboss:

I think I understand most of his long winded ramblings, but he does throw these confusing one liners in! ie:

quote: "If you'd had the sensibility to use linear pots to begin with, this wicket wouldn't be sticky."

The one "winky" smiley and 2 "Grin" smileys , along with several other assorted smileys that ChrisK used immediately after that line should have left you no doubt that he was kidding.

Just a bit of sarcasm. Chill a bit, and give ChrisK credit for asking "are you left handed?" from the git-go, thereby cutting to the crux of the problem.

As D20 notes, you have several options. Which you pursue is a matter of taste. We'll all be happy to help whichever you decide to do.

[ChristoMephisto]

Back in the sixties, in a Hagstrom catalogue it read their guitars had a 'new 10 stage audio tapered volume control'
From their description, and the way an audio pot behaves, it makes me think its a linear pot their talking about.

[ChrisK]

You also seem to be implying that I should have known to use linear taper pots in the first place..

Whoa, no. It was a tongue in cheek way of implying (after the discussion of WHY the pots didn't work correctly for you) that with linear pots, mirror imaging the wiring would work the same as right-handed, the knobs would just turn the other (left-handed) way. (clue) ;D ;D (it's funny) (well, not that funny)

Or, swap out the tone pots for 'blend' (pan) pots

Aha, indeed. The pot sold as a blend pot in this industry (which is actually a mixer pan pot) contains a right-handed and a left-handed audio taper element. This means that it can be used in place of either audio taper. You just have to choose the correct element.

You can use a blend pot for both tone controls as well as the volume.

Can I suggest that perhaps it would have been easier, less long winded and ultimately more helpful to simply post a diagram showing the correct wiring and detailing the correct pots to use for this application.

Yes, for you, but not for me.

I don't have wiring diagrams for the standard configurations and "standard" mods at hand since I have no need for them (and they are all over the web).

Finding the correct parts on various web sites takes time. Drawing a wiring diagram takes time. One then has to pour it and post it and link to it. I can type a lot faster than I can draw.

Part of the conversation is biased towards determining the level of technical understanding and the response needed. It is in my interests to minimize the amount of time that I spend, as well as to find others to join this group and its discussions, at various technical levels.


Summary:

If you want to use the right-hand pots that you have, use the right-hand wiring diagram.

If you want left-hand knob rotation (mirror image from right-hand) use blend (pan) pots and the left-hand wiring. You'll have to determine the correct element (I honestly don't know which is which). It's the one with the opposite taper response as the right-hand pots.


Apparently I DO know how pan pot elements are arraigned. I took the step of referring to our "Schematics" section and found a post related.

Electronics Templates

The third drawing down has the schematic representation for a pan pot on it. "10" refers to clockwise (I'm correct-handed)rotation.

[roboss]

Hi

Well what do you know, after disentangling the web! with just a little help from you guys, I have a strat which works the way it should!

I had a bee in my bonnet about this, probably an accumilation of frustrations over a period of time, it was a long road building this, the majority of you guys perhaps don't realise the difficulties involved in finding good lefty parts. When you do find someone who has them, they'll have one, no choice take it or leave it. Necks are a prime example, and pickguards, well occasionally someone will have a white one, but that's it, there is your choice!! Here in the UK it's much worse than the US with virtually nobody willing to stock LH parts. Even new guitars are thin on the ground.

Anyway gripe over, Ive waited long enough for this so rather than wait again to accumulate the parts for a master tone and volume mod, I decided to go with what I have.

The simplest method seemed to be leave the switch as is, and rewire the pots to the RH schematic. This I did last night, and 'behold the mysteries of life' it worked. both the volume and tone controls operate as they should, with gradual progression through the full rotation of the knob. Hail ChrisK.!!

Incidentally, the knobs rotate just fine for me, ie the volume increases 1-10. the tone is brightest at 10, don't know if that is how it should be though.

Just for future ref, can I use a push pull pot instead of a blend pot to achieve my mod, ie master tone and bridge-neck option. If so should I get a 250 or 500K audio pot?

Or can you guys suggest a better option?

Thanks again

[newey]

Roboss-

Just for future ref, can I use a push pull pot instead of a blend pot to achieve my mod, ie master tone and bridge-neck option. If so should I get a 250 or 500K audio pot?

I believe so, but we got off on the lefty-righty thing, and I don't recall much info on your proposed mod. What are you starting with- std Strat 5-way set up?

Incidentally, the knobs rotate just fine for me, ie the volume increases 1-10. the tone is brightest at 10, don't know if that is how it should be though.

That's the way it should be. You get used to the counter-intuitive knob rotation pretty quickly.

You may find, as I did, that you like the opposite wiring better. I'm righty, and I like the close at hand Vol pot on Strats for the pinky- twist swells- but I dislike the fact that when i accidentally bump it, it turns the Vol down.

So I wired the pot lefty on my latest Strat project- linear taper so I didn't have your issue. Now, I can still do the swells with the pinky, just in the opposite direction, and if I bang the knob accidentally, it turns it up instead of down. Since it mostly stays wide open, hitting it usually causes no problem at all.

Since yours is now mirror-image of that, you may find you like that feature of the knob.

[D2o]

Nov 11, 2008 7:31:43 GMT -5 roboss said:

Hail ChrisK.!!

Amen!

Glad you sorted it out, lefty! Now that you have the wisdom to confound help others, we hope you'll be sticking around.

D2o

[ChrisK]

Great!

If anything (other than getting your long efforts to fruition), you now have a functioning base of reference guitar wiring 101 to build on, in both understanding as well as possible future mods.

As I had suspected about the "handiness" of things, I also suspected something about you from your posts; that this was more than just a cry for help (or diagram). You now "know" and "see" things from a higher level.

Please forgive my approach, it isn't always optimum, but there are occasions when I suspect that it is. We await the progression to interest in wiring 102....


Suspect the obvious! Check the parts list on Fender guitar drawings (at least they have the uncommon courtesy to publish parts lists as well as generally good drawings).

How do I know what I know about blend vs pan pots? From the study of many Fender part lists, many "themes" became obvious.

I can easily "see" how the mirror-imaging happened. A drafter said "I need to make a left-hand Strat wiring drawing. The (sub)boss said " just flip the orientation of the right-hand one over. The drafter flipped everything.

Now, an interesting exercises might be to try several LH Strats of this vintage (Mexico), and see if they work properly (RH rotation) or are GeFooey (as you experienced).

Bear in mind that the posts on the Fender site are not necessarily manufacturing build drawings, but "customer convenience" drawings.


As one desires to consider left-hand pot response (that pan pot thing), one can refer to the "base" understanding and easily discuss only the incremental technology involved.

Just for future ref, can I use a push pull pot instead of a blend pot to achieve my mod, ie master tone and bridge-neck option.

Well, you can use a pp pot to add the neck in, but you don't need to lose a tone control function. The pp switch could use one pole to switch the neck to always in (or LH blended by the reuse of the neck tone pot), and the other pole could switch the bridge (or middle) tone to master (always in). This is fairly straightforward.

Another use for a pan pot is in pickup blending such as the neck (or bridge) "blend-in" use for a tone pot. For best blending one has to turn the pot the wrong way (for the right of hand). Using the correct element on the pan pot makes this work right(handed). (An observation that is generally obvious to none.)


In my Bro-in-law's Strat this past spring I put a push pull pot in the bridge tone control for one of the tone controls. I put a pan pot in the neck for the other. The pp switch did a couple of things, one of which was to switch the pan pot from being a neck tone control to a neck blend-in pot (the "right-hand" resistive element worked for RH tone and the "left-hand element worked for RH blending). (The other thing was a master tone.) I don't have a drawing specifically for this since it also included a variation of my 3 Single Coils and The "S-None Switch" design.

If so should I get a 250 or 500K audio pot?

I generally always use a 500K audio taper for tone since it's already down to 250K at around "8". The knob at "10" has the brighter tone of a knob at "12"!

[roboss]

Hi

ChrisK

Now the dust has settled, I understand your 'seek and ye shall find philosophy! education rather than appeasement!
and obviously more satisfying in the long run.

I have to confess though that my problem with this probably stems to my long standing inability to cope with mathematics and electrical schematics etc, I never excelled in my Physics or science subjects I'm afraid. The other side of my brain seems to have a distinct advantage.

Have a look here:

s100.photobucket.com/albums/m16/robroy52/

This will give you an idea of where my brain's comfort zone lies!

Anyway, back to things electric!!

Now I have this operating correctly in 'standard' mode, I would like to make up a second pickguard with a set of Tonerider City Limits PUs I have. and to wire as previously mentioned to give me the neck/bridge option, and master tone.

Now, I have done some homework! and found several diagrams/options to achieve this, a few from differing sources but I think the same as this:

[img]


However I did find this one as well which uses 2 'no load' pots.


[]


2 questions from these diagrams,

which one of them would give me the best result?

Is the 'no load' pot just another name for the 'blend' pot, or is it your 'pan' pot, or is it a different pot again? I think that's 4 questions!!

[newey]

roboss-

Is the 'no load' pot just another name for the 'blend' pot

No.

or is it your 'pan' pot,

Nope again.

or is it a different pot again

Yup.

"No Load" refers to the pot having minimal resistance when at "10". Regular pots still have some resistance even when fully "on". The no load pot is as if you had bypassed the pot entirely (well, sort of . . ) and wired directly to your output. It is not a dual-element pot.

Blend and Pan pots are both dual element pots, they swing both ways, so to speak. ChrisK's article (to which you have already referred) explains the difference between the two, but both have that bi-directional "thang" going on that other pots, no load or otherwise, do not have.

Neither of the diagrams you posted is using a real blend (or pan, for that matter) pot. Both are simply "blending" the neck in using a separate (no load) vol. pot. This is not true blending- you're just bringing one pickup into the mix, not blending the other one out at the same time.

This is not a criticism of the scheme in question, it's just a question of what you want to do.

EDIT 1.1: If you haven't already seen this, the Free "neck on" switch (courtesy of - you guessed it- ChrisK) is a simple idea. And if you scroll down to the variations, you'll see one called "neck blend to output" which looks somewhat familiar . . .

EDIT 2.0: BTW, some nice leatherwork there.

[ashcatlt]

Actually, I think the no-load pot has somewhere close to infinite resistance when turned all the way up. They are very often created by actually scratching or cutting away a small portion of the resistive strip at the top (all the way up) end. This does have the effect of essentially bypassing the pot when turned to 10.

In the "blend" position I think you want to cut the "all the way down" side, though, as it's meant to break the connection between the neck position and the bridge when turned to 0. Otherwise, in positions 1, 2, 4, 5, you'd always have some contribution from the unselected pickup. Note that, from what I can tell, this will just as effectively blend the neck into bridge-selected positions as it will blend the bridge into neck-selected positions. Whichever one the switch selects, you can roll in the other one to some extent.

On the tone pot, you'd want to cut it at the 10 end. This takes the whole pot out of the equation.

Bare with me on a little math. With a normal tone and volume control, when both are turned to 10, the effective impedance seen by the pickups is that of the Volume in parallel with the Tone*. Assuming both pots are the same value, the impedance will be half that of either one alone. Take the tone out of the picture and you increase (roughly double) this effective impedance. This will either increase the cutoff frequency or increase the resonance at cutoff of the lo-pass filter created by the pickups, cable, and amp input. That is, it will let more of the highest frequencies pass from the guitar on down the line to be amplified.

Some people actually find this to be too much treble. If a 500K pot is like turning it up to 12, then no pot (infinite resistance) is like turning it up to 27. Okay, maybe not, it is a logarithmic type progression...



*Actually, this whole thing is in parallel with the input-Z of whatever is connected to the jack (pedal, amp, etc) but this is generally big enough to where it has a minimal impact on the overall Z.

[ChrisK]

Yes, a no-load pot is a single element audio taper RH pot with the resistive element disconnected near "10". Some do this by scraping the element. Fender actually have these available. I don't know the commercial part number for an over the counter unit, but if you look on the parts list for the American Standard Strats, it is called out there (the authorized repair center replacement part number). I apologize for not knowing the external numbers, but I tend to source many of my parts directly thru an authorized repair center (in business, as in life, it's who you know....).

As I had mentioned, a RH pot will need to be wired backwards (0 Ohms at "0") to be an effective blend(ing)-in pot. Otherwise, the taper is all wrong and the pickup already has 100K of series blend resistance at "9" if you wire it for 0 Ohms at "10". We call this an on-off switch.

That being said, a no-load pot or a home-modified pot can be used, but make the element disconnect at the "10" end and most certainly not at the "0" end.

My experience with series blending (where one pickup is blended-in thru a varying series resistor to the pickup fully-on) is that 200K is the maximum resistance above which no appreciable effect is noticed (by me). JohnH seems to favor about 100K (but then, he has a certain fondness for Marshall stacks...).

Using the no load pots does have a silver lining for the LoH. While the volume and tone will operate "backwards" at least the blender will operate correctly for the Left of Hand.

I've again posted the link to guitarpartsresource. I have never ordered from them nor do I have any commercial interest or experience with them. They just happen to have the good sense to have good reference pics and descriptions on their site, so I use them in place of 1,000 words.

www.guitarpartsresource.com/electrical_fenderpots.htm

[roboss]

Hi

Thanks for your input once again.

Chrisk,
when you say the RH no load pot should be wired backwards, are you saying that for these 2 circuits I posted to work properly, the wire from the switch to the no load pot would have to be swopped over to the opposite tab? (on the pot)

In the diagram using 2 no load pots, would the master tone pot wiring remain as is?

Is there any advantage gained from using the 2 no load pots?

[ChrisK]

when you say the RH no load pot should be wired backwards, are you saying that for these 2 circuits I posted to work properly, the wire from the switch to the no load pot would have to be swapped over to the opposite tab? (on the pot)

No.

What I was saying, from the perspective of teaching on the use of RH pots for blending in a parallel pickup, is that the pot must be rotated to "0" for full blend-in (0 Ohms) and to "10" for full blend-out (250K Ohms). Otherwise the taper response will act more like an on-off switch than a blender (as your experience with mirrored wiring has shown).

In other words, the RH pot must be turned counter-clockwise (anti-clockwise to the rest of the world) for full blend-in. This is backwards compared to the volume control, and similar to the tone control for full high frequency cut, but we tend to view the tone control as an anti-tone control and are more comfortable with "normal" being "10" (it's a perspective thing). It's just counter-intuitive to the RH operator.

The way that the wiring diagrams that you posted show it is correct (these already turn the RH wrong way).

Wire as shown.

In the diagram using 2 no load pots, would the master tone pot wiring remain as is?

You betcha'.

Is there any advantage gained from using the 2 no load pots?

As ashcatlt stated, things will be a bit brighter. But that's why we invented analog (as in continuously adjustable) tone controls anyway.