gunther
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 25
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Post by gunther on Aug 27, 2007 2:56:05 GMT -5
What sorta job would you recommend to a young guitar nut such as meself?
The obvious answer being a guitar tech. But how many of those gigs are around?
Anyone got an interesting job? Doesnt have to be music related....
Cheers
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Post by ranchtooth on Aug 27, 2007 11:10:36 GMT -5
Electronics is such a diverse field from technicians to engineers to mad scientists!
I'm currently in college for electrical engineering, and I am loving every minute of it! It's worth looking into. And for the record, I am a very poor math student but I'm still pulling off an 80 average, so don't let math intimidate you from engineering or any electrical jobs. The opportunities are endless (well, nearly) and the pay is above average (usually).
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Post by gfxbss on Aug 27, 2007 13:09:59 GMT -5
hmm, i remember for a long time i was going to be an electrical engineer. but of course, i did let the math steer me away.  now, im a Visual Communication Design major. Ive worn myself out on it already. double next year, im planning on changing schools to one that offers sound engineering. it sounds like it would be a blast. hopefully being half deaf wont kill that dream.  Tyler |
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Post by quarry on Aug 27, 2007 13:42:23 GMT -5
the lightman's blind in one eye
and can't see out of the other...
the piano-tuner's got a hearing aid
and he showed up with his mother.
and the piano has been drinking...
not me.
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Post by ChrisK on Aug 28, 2007 19:47:22 GMT -5
One that pays well, that you enjoy, and exists around where you live (or want to). Not one that just pays, well. The first rule of successful living is "Get the cash, as much as you can." Maybe. But, how many of those gigs are around you? And, what does it pay (reread the first rule of successful living)? Work on the math, it's a vital language. I love electrical engineering. I recommend this job: www.prism-magazine.org/sept02/top.cfmIt's what I get to do for "work".  Here's a job posting in the DC area a few days ago: www.computerjobs.com/job_display.aspx?jobid=1906696Anyway, it's all physics, anyway.  (But don't forget the math.) |
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Post by ranchtooth on Aug 28, 2007 19:52:31 GMT -5
I found math took a major turn for the better when I started engineering... No longer was I graphing the function of x or proving a triangle exists, but now I'm graphing the sine wave of voltage. Things seemed to fall into place when I found out they have a tangible purpose.
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Post by ChrisK on Aug 28, 2007 20:03:54 GMT -5
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Post by sumgai on Aug 29, 2007 11:32:07 GMT -5
rt,
There's a reason why the pay is only "usually" above average......... it's because the other 20% of the guys who actually excelled at math are taking those top-tier dollars, leaving you with the dregs.
To put it another way, do you really wanna spend your life settling for for only 80% of what's on the table? Wouldn't you rather at least strive for the rest of it? See Chris's Rule #1 in this regard. It is exactly the reason I was able to retire at 49 years of age. I may not be wallowing in freely spendable cash at any given moment, but I am dead certain that there will be something left for my descendents when I finally pluck the last note.
And you can take that to the bank (but please, not my bank! ;D).
sumgai
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Post by DarKnight on Aug 29, 2007 14:32:57 GMT -5
I'm studying physics (probably specialize in electronics, though teaching will be my graduating "title") and I also say that maths is vital part of understanding and developing needed skills... I've had gaps in my knowledge and so I'm now taking one year with mathematics and just a little bit physics, so I hopefully understand better on the next year... Atleast this is my opinion... you can't know and understand enough mathematics... though on the other hand I've noticed that some areas of maths require some time... and after year or two you'll suddenly understand it like you never had probs with it... Getting older...  Anyhow lots of talk... Hopefully something that makes sense. Dark |
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Post by hammeroff on Aug 29, 2007 23:34:16 GMT -5
If you can't survive on the money from gigs, and you very much need money, I'd recommend delivering pizzas. You get a lot of time to listen to music, you get free food, and the job takes nothing out of you. Plus the cash is enough to pay rent, gas and buy strings/batteries and other equipment.
You still get a ton of time to practice, rehearse, write, and listen too.
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arkansaspicker2
Rookie Solder Flinger
the one with the most guitars wins!
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
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Post by arkansaspicker2 on Aug 29, 2007 23:37:28 GMT -5
this isnt really my disscussion but i agree with hammeroff's logic.
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Post by sumgai on Aug 30, 2007 20:33:21 GMT -5
hammeroff,
Can you bring me some fries with that, please?
;D
sumgai
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Post by gfxbss on Aug 30, 2007 21:02:45 GMT -5
haha, i did that for two years. wasnt a bad gig. now i get to roam a warehouse. steady schedule, and decent pay for a college kid...
Tyler
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Post by ChrisK on Sept 4, 2007 11:55:43 GMT -5
Today's Best Entry-Level Salaries www.careerbuilder.com/Custom/MSN/CareerAdvice/ViewArticle.aspx?articleid=1105&pf=t&cbRecursionCnt=1&cbsid=c1ab4d0ae00e4962afa5f9e718c77038-242225590-TN-4Top 10 Starting Salaries by College Major Chemical Engineering - $59,361Chemical engineering grads have the option of working in either the government or private sector in the areas of research and development, design or product development. Computer Engineering - $56,201Computer engineers may choose from a variety of career paths from creating new products and services as design engineers to improving existing products as development engineers. Electrical Engineering - $55,292Because nearly every industry works with electricity or electrical devices, electrical engineers can work in nearly every type of business, doing everything from designing and building medical equipment to working for the military or department of defense. Mechanical Engineering - $54,128Mechanical engineers may work on electric generators, internal combustion engines and other power-generating machines for businesses like equipment manufacturers, aerospace companies, material processing plants, transportation companies or petroleum companies. Computer Science - $53,396Computer science majors may go on to work in artificial intelligence, computer design and engineering, architecture, information technology or software applications, doing everything from developing computers that simulate human learning to designing computer software. Civil Engineering - $48,483Civil engineering majors go on to work all over the country, and some may spend their entire careers traveling and working on different projects. They may work for traditional engineering firms as well as telecommunication businesses, consulting firms, or even toy and athletic equipment manufacturers. Economics - $48,483Economics majors can do everything from private consulting for businesses to working for one of many government agencies. Management of Information Systems - $47,648Information systems managers work for organizations to ensure the availability, continuity and security of data and information technology services within an organization; yet, they may also work as business analysts. Finance - $47,239Career options for finance majors range from investment banking, helping investors trade securities or manage financial assets, to money management to financial planning for anyone from big businesses to smaller firms. Accounting - $46,718Accounting majors often go into auditing and tax services, rising to become controllers, treasurers, financial vice presidents, chief financial officers or even corporation presidents. Education is. |
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Post by jkemmery on Sept 4, 2007 21:09:48 GMT -5
Well, here's what you need to ask yourself ... what makes you happy. No amount of money makes up for a miserable job - period. Do what you love to do, what you are passionate about. You could find a band and do their guitar teching for free, just to be around the music and guitars ... and being able to tell the chicks in the bar you're with the band is a nice perk. You'll probably wind up getting a little more than the average joe. I'm a computer programmer, but as I've discovered my love, interest and passion for that waning, I started building guitars on the side, and my wife and I are opening a coffee shop. (Another great passion of mine. Coffee ... and the misses, of course) Which brings me to another good although completely off-topic point; don't marry someone unless you know for sure you are really in love with them. It took me a couple times to get that right.  |
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Post by ChrisK on Sept 5, 2007 19:29:04 GMT -5
My (first two) rules of marriage: 1. Being in love is a stupid reason to get married. 2. Don't marry anyone that you're not willing to go into business with, because that's exactly what you're doing.  The rest aren't suitable for mixed company - civilized and uncivilized.....  |
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Post by jkemmery on Sept 6, 2007 14:31:22 GMT -5
An excellent point. My current wife and I are in fact going in to business together.
Couldn't disagree more ... just curious, how many times have you been married?
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Post by ChrisK on Sept 6, 2007 17:32:15 GMT -5
One, still am.
Going on 31 years.
To be fair, we waited until we were 25 and we both were established. I chose someone that would make a good wife/mother (a logical decision, a friend is much more important than a physical partner), and we fully realized that we were indeed going into business with each other.
A state-sanctioned marriage IS a business corporation. That's why we get to file joint financial statements/returns as a single entity.
To get married just because we're ooooh sooooo in loooove, is stupid. Infatuation comes and (always) goes.
Unfortunately, when left to their natural ways, what men really look for in a woman is, uh, different (as in something new always - ohh, shiny!).
In a real sense, it was an arranged marriage that we arranged ourselves. Arranged marriages have a much higher success rate.
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Post by jkemmery on Sept 6, 2007 20:35:26 GMT -5
I'm glad you are content with your situation. I wish you all the best.
Well, man, you know, it's a bit insulting for you to repeatedly refer to falling in love and getting married as "stupid". Moreover, "love" is not "infatuation".
It's unfortunate that you will never feel it. Quite a bit more unfortunate for you to denigrate it as "stupid".
Since this forum is about musical instruments, and thus, as an extention, making music with said instruments, I'd have to counter by saying that, music comes from the heart. As does love. Without a heart, I would find it hard to make music. If you only live your live by "cold, hard, logic", then you are missing out on 99% of it, and I feel sorry for you. I'm not calling you stupid, just misguided, but you called me, and the rest of us on the board (and elsewhere for that matter) who actually have a heart, stupid, because you fail to understand it, and I honestly am sad for you. Best of luck with your logically arranged "partnership". As for me, I'd prefer to be in love, stupid or not, because it feels better than anything else I've ever known.
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Post by sumgai on Sept 6, 2007 23:08:22 GMT -5
On the one hand, I'm getting nasty-grams from Dear Abby for running an Advice to the Lovelorn column, and on the other hand, I'm getting flak from Forbes for dishing out financial advice. To hell with 'em both....... carry on! ;D All I can is, if we all did it the same way, then there'd be no variety a'tall. That would be the shame of the matter, IMNSHO.  sumgai |
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Post by sumgai on Sept 7, 2007 1:18:15 GMT -5
crazymanandy, Was it something I said? My statements below look a bit out of place, without your post to give them context.  ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~ Behind an exterior? ....... To hell with his exterior, what I wanna know is, what's behind that bag he appropriated from me! sumgai p.s. gunthur, I'm sure that at the very least, you've learned by now not to go into marriage counseling! |
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Post by ChrisK on Sept 7, 2007 10:31:55 GMT -5
Here's another list that I found on MSN today. Some of these don't require a long college program. A good technician is often more valuable than some engineers that I've met (pragmatic is).
According to Manpower, Inc.'s 2007 Talent Shortage Survey, the following jobs are most in need of qualified workers right now. Due to high demand, pursuing a job in one of these fields could mean increased pay and more benefits for those willing to take the plunge.
1. Sales representatives
Qualifications: A four-year college degree with courses in marketing, leadership, communication, business and advertising, or a high school degree and a proven record of successfully selling other products. Excellent interpersonal and written communication skills are just as important as education and training.
Average salary:* $40,868
2. Teachers
Qualifications: Educational qualifications for postsecondary teacher jobs range from expertise in a particular field to a Ph.D., depending on the subject being taught and the type of educational institution.
Average salary: $45,281
3. Mechanics
Qualifications: Complete a formal training program in high school, or in a postsecondary vocational school or community college. Some service technicians, however, still learn the trade solely by assisting and learning from experienced workers.
Average salary: $43,760
4. Engineering technicians
Qualifications: An associate degree in engineering technology from a technical institute, vocational school or community college, creativity and good communications skills.
Average salary: $47,759
Some folks move into this type of electronic position after a few years working as an electronic assembler. In one of the technology start-ups that I worked at in the 70's, we had every incoming graduated technician work in the wire shop for month, the PCB shop for a month (yeah, we had our own internal PCB shop), and quality control for a month. This really helped teach them the reality of the industry, and also helped build strong bridges to the shop workers, which helped both ways.
5. Management/Executives
Qualifications: Vary widely, depending on the size of the organization, but usually include several years of experience within an organization, a bachelor's degree and, oftentimes, advanced degree.
Average salary: $90,913
6. Truck Drivers -- Freight
Qualifications: Valid driver's license, clean driving record and demonstrated ability to handle machinery.
Average salary: $43,053
7. Drivers -- Delivery
Qualifications: Valid driver's license, clean driving record.
Average salary: $29,870
8. Accountants
Qualifications: Professional certification or licensure, a master's degree and proficiency in accounting and auditing computer software.
Average salary: $52,940
9. Construction Laborers
Qualifications: On-the-job training or completion of a formal apprenticeship programs.
Average salary: $40,658
10. Machine Operators
Qualifications: Completion of an apprentice program, on-the-job training or participation in a vocational school, technical school or community college program.
Average salary: $30,176
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Post by ux4484 on Sept 7, 2007 11:11:38 GMT -5
Well, man, you know, it's a bit insulting for you to repeatedly refer to falling in love and getting married as "stupid". Moreover, "love" is not "infatuation". It's unfortunate that you will never feel it. Quite a bit more unfortunate for you to denigrate it as "stupid". ummm.....I'm kinda with Chris on this one. Infatuation can lead to love, but it is not love and does fade. Love is a wonderful thing, but early Love has a whimsy with it and can cloud your judgment about all that "logical" stuff Chris speaks of (logic is ). My Mrs and I waited for 6 years before we tied the knot, like Chris; once we were both established. Of the 14 or so couples that were dating in our H.S. that got hitched; we and one other couple are the only ones still together, and both of us waited until we finished college to get hitched. If you love someone and they love you back, they'll be willing to wait for a ring and a notarized piece of paper, or to wait to see if it's truly "THE" person for a lifelong commitment. To bastardize a famous quote: Better to have loved and lost, than to have loved, got married and then stripped to the bone in a messy divorce. Because in this country that's what's happening to more than half of all marriages. Back O.T. I went to a technical school (DeVry in "The City"). I had originally intended to go to U of I for engineering, but as I was paying my own way and my parents were retiring (and moving), I needed something I could do in two years time before they left. Having now worked as a tech for over 24 years, I know enough engineers to know that I'm a much better tech than I would have been an engineer. I've worked on everything from relay logic and cam timers to (currently) Digital voice loggers, Public safety radio, and Mobile data networks, with a good dose of electro-mechanical production equipment tossed into the gap. I have always loved what I do, but not always loved the environment I've done it in. Engineers have either been the biggest help or the biggest hindrance to my job. If they designed it, they will defend their design to the end, even though it is dismal and/or barely functional. The best engineers work with techs as equals who see how the equipment actually works as opposed to those who condescend to the lowly "machine oiler" that is griping their design. Over the years, it's been a 50/50 split on average. Being a tech does pay well, working for a municipality, I make more than many engineers that have been working the same number of years as myself. I'd rather fix than manage, so I'm very happy in my position. Engineers are typically on some type of management track (or agenda), I'd never want to get that far from what I do best. The biggest difference between and engineer and a tech: The engineer will explain even the minutest detail of any equipments operation (We poke fun of my boss at one of his first "speeches" as our boss that started with: "Well to understand this, you have to understand electron flow", he's never lived it down, nor will we let him). Whereas a tech usually knows enough to fix the equipment. If he can't fix it, he'll work, study, and research it until he's worked it out (it's tech on the job training). This is why you don't see me posting schematics (or critiquing others) here, once I have something working, I move on to the next project. While I've done my own equipment repairs for years, guitar and amp work is not something I'd want to do every day. Like all consumer equipment, there is just so much junk out there. And for every LP custom that needs a new jack, there's a Hondo that needs an overhaul, and everyone thinks you should do it for a song (Though I imagine the LP owner is willing to pay more than the Hondo customer). How many times have I heard someone bringing a cheap amp to GC or SA for service saying: "I only paid $100 bucks for this amp, and you're going to charge me half that just to LOOK at it" . Most likely, that customer will walk out with another $100 amp, and that's what the retailers count on. That leads to one big down side of being a tech or an engineer, often you get dragged into the sales aspect of the equipment. Techs and engineers are rarely type "A" personalities (like most salesdrones). Nothing is more depressing to a tech than to tell a customer they should buy a new $200,000 box (because management has told them to do so) when all they need is a $20 part (that's typically jacked up to $2500.00 to boot). I was not able to look my service customers in the eye and lie so boldly, it's the reason I left working field service for 3M Medical. Being a tech is also good job security, when companies are culling middle management jobs (where most engineers lurk) to save money, you still have a job (someone always has to fix the stuff). I've worked for 5 companies since I left school, I moved from job to job on my own terms to take the next offer which was always better paying. BTW, the best paying tech jobs are in government, either directly or government controlled/sponsered/inspected industries (pharmaceutical, defense, and food production). A bit more paperwork, but you get to be committed to doing it right, no shortcuts or Rube Goldbergs allowed. *whew* update: wiggy, I was writing this as Chris snuck in and beat me to it. |
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Post by ChrisK on Sept 7, 2007 11:38:16 GMT -5
Hmmm, my point is being extrapolated well beyond what it was intended (and explained) to be. I apologize for any perceived personal slight, none was intended towards anyone. I absolutely agree, infatuation IS NOT love. The reason that I posted ""To get married just because we're ooooh sooooo in loooove, is stupid. Infatuation comes and (always) goes."" was exactly to indicate that those who have just "fallen in love" and are marching rapidly toward marriage need (much) more understanding and rational to come into play before they make an emotion-based decision. (This is why I stated it as "ooooh sooooo in loooove" to indicate infatuation, not learned love.) A state-sanctioned marriage is far more than just "the next step" in a relationship. It has significant financial, genetic (diseases/propensities/etc), and societal implications and ramifications. This is also why arranged marriages are the norm in many parts of the world. Marriage is far more than just about the two candidates. In many places (actually all) it's the foundation of the resulting society. Again, I never intended to insult, but only to inform. Such advice is based on years of observations. And, it's my learned opinion. Before anyone enters into marriage (or business, or the military, or college or etc.), they should have their "Eyes Wide Open" to all aspects thereof. Rather than continue to deconstruct and respond to the rest, I would point out that my original intent was to state two things; 1. Eyes (and intellect) wide open as well, and 2. It's also a business relationship. Now, if you have found someone that excites you, complements you (compliments are good too), cares for you, makes a best friend for you, understands you, and respects you, then you are truly "lucky" (preparation has met opportunity) since, in order to have seen these positive attributes of each other, you both have your "eyes wide open" in all aspects of "love". Now, if I really am governed (not driven, that would be emotional) by "cold, hard, logic", I would have respond in a logical manner without emotion. Dang, that was a smiley emoticon I chose. Dang, I said dang. Live long and prosper in all things, including love. |
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Post by jkemmery on Sept 7, 2007 13:51:01 GMT -5
I had acutally posted another reply, but deleted it.
I don't feel I misinterpreted anything, but whaterver. I don't want this tread (or this forum) to digress into a flame war. ChrisK stated on on Sept 5, 2007, 6:29pm and I quote:
Which was a reply to my earlier statement.
I'll just let the fellow GuitarNuts decide for themselves if there was any misinterpretation of that post.
And to make a point, sure, arranged marriages last longer. That's becuase in most cultures that still embrace arranged marriages, divorce is either absolutley forbidden (Saudi Arabia) or at least looked down upon to the point that divorced individuals are utterly ostracized by society (India). Given the freedon to divorce, arranged marriages quicky become a thing of the past in any society, (Europe, the U.S.A.) and there's a good reason.
If someone wants to get married to someone with whom they aren't in love because it's a good, logical, business decision, in my opinion, that's stupid. But that's just my opinion, and the advice I would give anyone who cared to ask. I've been married twice, once without, because I thought it was a good, logical decision but quickly became miserable as hell, and once with, and it's been the best thing that's ever happened in my life.
Those will be my parting words on the topic.
Getting back to the topic of the thread, I don't believe there is necessarily any good or bad occupation for a guitar fanatic. The key is to just do what you love to do. There's nothing wrong with just playing, fixing, modding, etc ... guitars as a hobby. I kind of agree with Hammeroff ... deliver pies, or wait tables or tend bar or all 3 and you'll have much more time to enjoy your guitar hobby.
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Anyhow lots of talk... Hopefully something that makes sense. 
