Wiring question - new guitar

[wilsonic]

Hi all, new around this forum. Looks like plenty of wiring pros here so I thought I'd give it a try.

Here's my question: I just had a custom guitar built to my specs with Jimmy Page style wiring:

www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=jp_style

I also had two mini toggles added to this, a killswitch and a solo switch (bypass of the bridge pickup volume and tone control when engaged). My problem is this....the solo switch apparently just bypasses the volume, but not its push/pull feature or the tone control and its push/pull. With the particularly complicated wiring I have, is it not possible to completely bypass these controls and their push/pull features - sending the bridge pickup straight to the output jack? Or would I need additional switching to accomplish this?

Thanks, any help or suggestions welcome!

[ChrisK]

It would appear that a 3PDT switch is needed.

1. One pole will disconnect the white/red tap from the bridge volume push pull switch,

2. One pole will disconnect the bridge tone push pull switch connection going to the neck tone push pull switch (there is only one), and

3. One pole will disconnect the output jack tip connection from the three-way switch and connect it to the wire on the bridge tone push pull switch in "2" above.


A 3PDT switch is not normally found in guitar parts channels. I do have a source for this (digikey.com). Ask if you need help in selecting one.


The bridge tone push pull switch will still reverse the phase of the bridge pickup, but this shouldn't matter. If you don't want this to happen (controlled feedback reasons, perhaps), you will need a slightly different scheme. Let me know as digikey also has 4PDT toggles.

[newey]

wilsonic-

Hello and Welcome!

It should be possible. Do you have a diagram of your actual wiring with the kill switch and solo switch added?

Alternatively, assuming this is an LP style, you could remove the cavity cover and shoot some pix.

EDIT: Looks like ChrisK already has it worked out . .

[wilsonic]

Thanks alot guys! I'll keep you updated and maybe get a picture too. If I attempt to fix this it will probably be after the holidays.

Appreciate the help!

By the way, this is the type of mini switches I have. Would one of these on/on/on switches work. Probably not, huh? I have 2 of the black DPDT.

www.guitarnucleus.com/gnstore/elec_switch.html#mini-switches

[newey]

If three poles are needed, as ChrisK suggests, then a DPDT won't do. Besides, you'd have that pesky center position in the way when you wanted to go a'soloing.

[wilsonic]

Thanks newey. I've been looking for a 3PDT to match what I already have.

[ChrisK]

This is a 3PDT. They have others.
search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=360-1863-ND

This is a 4PDT. They have others.
search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=360-1872-ND

The black flattened bat may be hard to find.

[wilsonic]

Thanks ChrisK, I think you're right. It might be hard to find. I would really hate to put a different style switch in this guitar. I'll keep looking and think it over for a while.

[wilsonic]

Hey ChrisK, to answer your earlier question, I guess I would rather have the switch bypass everything completely (both volume and tone with their push/pull features.

Would this definitely require a 4PDT switch?? Either way I decide to go, would a 4PDT switch do the job? I'll just get one of those if that is the case.

By the way, I found some flattened bat type switches at digikey. Just not black ones. I inquired whether or not they're available in black. Waiting for a response from them.

Also, does the rating of the switch matter as far as .4VA or 6A?

[wilsonic]

Wow, great customer service. Digikey got back to me already. Sounds like they could possibly special order some black switches for me.

[newey]

Can't tell whether these are black or not, they look black in the picture. But the handle isn't flattened anyway:

www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=709

If Digikey can speacial order some, that would be perfect for 3Ps.

[wilsonic]

This is what I found newey...

www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=360-1870-ND

They said they could see about getting me a black one.

[ChrisK]

newey,

The 0221B that you linked to is not a black switch. The "B" indicates nothing other than it's the next toggle switch in their listing. There is a 0221A (3PDT) and 0221 (SP3T center-off).

Hey ChrisK, to answer your earlier question, I guess I would rather have the switch bypass everything completely (both volume and tone with their push/pull features.

Would this definitely require a 4PDT switch?? Either way I decide to go, would a 4PDT switch do the job? I'll just get one of those if that is the case.

Yes. The poles are as follows:

1. One to disconnect the bridge pickup red/white center tap.

2. One to disconnect the bridge pickup green wire and connect it to ground.

3. One to disconnect the bridge pickup black wire and connect it to #4 below.

4. One to disconnect the output jack hot wire from the 3-way switch and connect it to #3 above.

By the way, I found some flattened bat type switches at digikey. Just not black ones. I inquired whether or not they're available in black. Waiting for a response from them.

Try www.mouser.com they may have them.

If you can only find chrome plated switches, try using a short length of black heat-shrink tubing over the flattened bat. It will not come off easily. You could then use the black nut and washer that you already have (it the threads are the same, there is the US standard of 1/4"-40 and a metric version)

Also, does the rating of the switch matter as far as .4VA or 6A?

It is my preference to use switches rated 0.4 VA maximum for guitar signals since these switches are rated for dry contact use. This means that no minimum (or wetting) current is required. In order to meet this rating, the internal contacts are gold plated. The 0.4 VA rating (usually at 28 VDC max) is to ensure that the gold plating is not burned off. Since most of these switches have the gold plating over silver, once the rating is exceeded, they become power switches as below.

The switch that you linked is a 6Amp power switch. It has silver contacts. Since this is a power switch, for long-term reliable use it should switch a minimum current of at least 50 or 100 mA. This current level is not possible with the extremely weak signals that come from a passive guitar pickup, which develop a maximum current of perhaps 0.25 to 0.5 mA, 100 times less at least.

If there wasn't a difference, they wouldn't make the gold plated ones! I know this from working as an OEM electrical/electronics design engineer for 30+ years.

Virtually all mini-toggle switches sold by guitar parts suppliers are power switches and not low signal level switches. They usually work, but they're not guaranteed to.

Silver plated lever and rotary switches work well since the contacts have a wiping action as they slide across each other, which removes the oxide (until the plating is worn off).


Silver oxidizes, gold doesn't

[wilsonic]

Hey ChrisK,

I finally got my switches to go ahead with this project.

I noticed that the original DPDT for the soloswitch (bridge directly to output) has the neck pickup hot going to the other set of poles (disconnecting the neck pickup from neck volume).

Is this necessary, or should I connect the neck pickup directly to its volume control and proceed with your original instructions? Just a little confused at this point.

Thanks.

[ChrisK]

Well, since I don't remember any of this (Christmas - too many new toys) I had to revisit things....

Would this definitely require a 4PDT switch?? Either way I decide to go, would a 4PDT switch do the job? I'll just get one of those if that is the case.


Yes. The poles are as follows:

1. One to disconnect the bridge pickup red/white center tap.

2. One to disconnect the bridge pickup green wire and connect it to ground.

3. One to disconnect the bridge pickup black wire and connect it to #4 below.

4. One to disconnect the output jack hot wire from the 3-way switch and connect it to #3 above.

Since pole #4 above disconnects the output jack hot wire from the 3-way switch and connect it to the bridge pickup black wire (#3 above), the neck stuff is left where it is.

This is so nothing but the bridge pickup is in circuit.

Wire it as I suggest.

[wilsonic]

Thanks Chris,

I appreciate your time. You've been a huge help.

Gary