Using Strat Pickup on a bass?

[newey]

As some of you know, I am working on a bass rebuild project- still in the planning stages at present. I'm looking to add a pickup to this P bass clone.

On one of the bass forums, I saw a discussion of replacing the pickup in a Squier Bronco Bass with a Strat "Cool Rails" style thin HB. The consensus seemed to be that this improved the tone by brightening it a bit and making it less middy.

Rather than buy a bass pickup, I have a selection of Strat-type pickups. I could enlist one to the cause. Clearly, one of the rail styles would avoid worries over pole spacing.

Are these bass guys crazy, or is this something worth exploring?

[andy]

It's got to be worth a shot!

First off, I've played a Squier Bronco just out of interest in a shop, but it seemed to be fine as a bass. That may be a 'guitar pickup' in there, but it doesn't hinder proceedings.

It is the pitch of the note which is most important in bass, and there is quite a lot of high content in even the lowest notes, so if it were the case that less lows were reproduced by the pickup, that may not be the end of the world. In reality, low end is often taken out of bass on record to make it sound clear anyhow, so it would be no bad thing, particularly as you plan to use it alongside a P-bass pick up anyway. In fact, if you are going ahead with a neck humbucker, it may be just the foil you need!

I'd like to imagine that it makes for a sound which works well with overdrive and distortion sounds, but I don't know if that would be the case- I am only assuming that the low end will be clearer and mids more pronounced.

Bottom line is, I suppose, that it works fine on a Bronco and the old Musicmaster models have their fans too, so it can't be a ridiculous suggestion to use a Strat pickup for a bass. I considered it myself a while ago for one of my many aborted projects.

[newey]

That may be a 'guitar pickup' in there, but it doesn't hinder proceedings.

No, the stock pickup is a Bronco Bass pickup, similar to the Mustang bass pickup as I understand it. They were talking about modding it to accept a Strat style dual rails.

This would be in place of, not in addition to, a neck HB- saves me buying a pickup, potentially.

[ChrisK]

Are these bass guys crazy

Yes, and they have an unnatural fear of spiders (Boris sez).


I'd stick with a rails style just to get even magnetic coverage. You do get to choose series or parallel for the dual rails pickups.

You could first try a 6 pole Strat pickup, it might be ok.

[ashcatlt]

I've had this idea rattling around in the old can for a while now. I had thought to use a GFS pickup for this, with an S/P switch. Mine will be strung A thru C, and used for chording and those "Cure-style six-string bass" type melodies. One day eventually I'll find me a short scale bass and try it, but in the meantime I'll be watching this space.

Andy, I'm a little confused by this:

It is the pitch of the note which is most important in bass, and there is quite a lot of high content in even the lowest notes, so if it were the case that less lows were reproduced by the pickup, that may not be the end of the world.

I interpret the word "pitch" to mean "fundamental". The "high content in even the lowest notes" would be overtones, harmonics, pick noise, fret buzzes, etc. This contributes to the timbre of the instrument.

It's quite true, though, that most of what we hear as bass guitar actually comes from the first or second harmonic. The lowest fundamental on a 4 string is just a bit above 40Hz. This is just an octave above the theoretical threshold of human hearing. It's down there in the area which is difficult for the human ear to recognize as pitch, and fights for space with other things in the mix like the kick drum and low toms. It provides the oomph or rumble, but a little bit goes a long way, and it can turn into mud real quick.

It's a pretty well known trick that you can increase the percieved volume of a bass guitar by boosting in the area between about 150-400Hz.

[newey]

but in the meantime I'll be watching this space.

OK, so maybe I'm the guinea pig on this. The recommendation I was reading said specifically to use a "cool rails" type; the hotter version was said not to give good results.

The "old" Tele Bass (Old in quotes because I think there's a reissue out there somewheres) had a SC pickup that couldn't have been that much different, I suspect, than a regular Strat or tele pickup.

EDIT: On further reflection, if it gave too much high end, a capacitor in-line could knock it back a bit. Maybe use a Tone Control switch to select between 2 caps?

[andy]

the stock pickup is a Bronco Bass pickup, similar to the Mustang bass pickup as I understand it. They were talking about modding it to accept a Strat style dual rails.

*Geek Alert*

The Mustang bass has, effectivly, a mini P-bass pickup- a split design with one half under two strings, one half under the other. Although a student model, it was often built to almost as high a standard as the full size basses.
www.fender.com/products//search.php?partno=0253900540

The Musicmaster was a bit more of a budget offering and as such just used a Strat pickup, 6 poles and all, to turn the strings vibration into electricity. www.jimlawrence.net/BASSES/MusicMaster.html The Bronco is, as close as you can get, a re-issue/modern version of the Musicmaster, and the 'Bronco Bass pickup' is the same as the Musicmaster pickup, i.e., a Strat pickup with a closed cover!
www.squierguitars.com/products/search.php?partno=0310902558

That's why all the talk of using Strat pickups- it is nothing more than an upgrade to what is already there!

Ash, yes, I did mean that. You just said it alot better!

[newey]

i.e., a Strat pickup with a closed cover!

AHA! I did not know that. And you're right about the Mustang bass pup being a split-coil, I was thinking Musicmaster but typed Mustang instead.

EDIT: I'm assuming, also, that rather than a std Strat mounting to the pickguard, I'd use the foam-and-screw-to-the-body method as most bass pups are done.

[andy]

Sorry Newey, I must have been typing as you posted-

Yes, the original Precision Bass (more geeking up... the 70's version with the neck humbucker, when they were using up old bodies and necks was dubbed the Tele Bass) had/has a single coil pickup, the only real difference would have been the four poles and the coil being a little wider, which was (probably later) found to give a fuller sound (such as a P-90 compared to a strat pickup).

The only possible difference could be the amount of windings, but going back to the early Fenders, I believe that sort of thing varied pretty widely from one guitar to the next.

The re-issues sound great to my ears- I stuck with normal P-basses purely for the sake of hum-cancelling, but I really dig the look and sound of the old style Precisions.

[andy]

On further reflection, if it gave too much high end, a capacitor in-line could knock it back a bit. Maybe use a Tone Control switch to select between 2 caps?

I'm not too hot on how all that works, but it does remind me that part of the reason for moving to the split pickup was to even out the response a bit- the single poles tend to give peaks and troughs in the signal a little more than the two poles per string arrangement used on most Fenders. Basically, when bass amps were less resilient, the speakers used to to get blown by the peaks. I always assumed that that was a particular issue with treble response, though now I think of it it would be the whole range, and it would be the lows which really damage the speakers anyway. Well, it was worth a quick mention all the same. What with modern bass amp technology, its hardly going to be a problem nowadays.

EDIT: I'm assuming, also, that rather than a std Strat mounting to the pickguard, I'd use the foam-and-screw-to-the-body method as most bass pups are done.

I guess either would work- I've not had a Musicmaster or Bronco apart, but they look to have the pickup attatched Strat style. Of course, if you are putting it in the bridge position, it is probably easier to use the foam approach.

[newey]

Ofcourse, if you are putting it in the bridge position, it is probably easier to use the foam approach.

This would be more like a neck pup, with the P-bass pup in its std position.

Since I have to modify the guard anyway, I have a choice as to mounting the pup to the guard vs to the body.

[andy]

Well, in that case, I don't have any real experience that would help you decide- I did a quick search on the web, but apart from some great sites about Ford Bronco Pickup trucks, there wasn't much which came up!

If you decide to go the foam route though, cheap mouse mats are a good source of material which does the job well, and is nice and easy to cut. Just avoid ones with hard plastic tops.

[dotfret]

Well, if it's any help -

I have an old Musicmaster (77 or 78). The pickup has 6 poles, all flush with the top (fibre) plate. It is not like a Strat pickup, more like a Tele front pickup with a plastic cover, rather than metal. I think it is the same pickup that was used on Musicmaster and Mustang guitars.

I have used a Gibson guitar pickup from an SGII on the bass, with good results (like a plastic covered Firebird pickup).

In either case, best results were obtained by keeping the pickup height low - but there were no real problems from wolf notes because the pole pieces do not align with the strings.

Re. the split pickup on the Mustang bass - if you take the covers off, you will find three pole pieces in each segment. It is another guitar pickup - but from a rather rare model (the Fender 12 string hockey stick).

I don't see why the Hot Rails pickups would not work. OTOH you would have to buy a full Strat set. This may be an advantage, because they are graduated for impedance (memory says you get 8K, 10K, and 12K neck to bridge, neck and bridge are N up and middle is S up). Plenty of opportunities for experimentation in there!

[newey]

Dotfret-

Hello and Welcome!

Plenty of useful info in your post. I didn't realize guitar pickups had such a long history in Fender basses.

I see individual rails pups for sale on Ebay, so no need to buy the whole set. I still haven't settled on what to use, I have a bunch of odd Strat pickups around.

[gfxbss]

Newey, i have used the pups out of a peavey T-15 on a bass. if youre not familiar i would describe them as P-90 Rails. I had great results with them. if i still had the bass i would post a clip for you. but i traded it off for a hollow body.

also, if you have the strat pups, i would try those first. if youre not staisfied, then try the rails....

Tyler

[ChrisK]

Rail pickups such as the SD Hot Rails are dual rail humbucking pickups and as such, have no polarity or phase to be concerned about unless spilt.

....cheap mouse mats are a good source of material which does the job well,

And the thin ones are most excellent as tight jar lid removers.