Electric Shock

[morbe]

I'm new to all this! I have recently Replaced the Super 70's Pickups out of my vintage 1978 Ibanez PF300 and replaed them with Seymour Duncan Humbuckers. I followed the intructions to the gibson LEs Paul wiring diagram as my Ibanez is a Les Paul Copy. The way the Ibanez is wired is not exactly the same but Simlular.
From What I can remember:
The three tone toggle is connectected to the Ground and hot of the Cord Plug.
The Three tone toggle is also connected to Ground and hot on the Volume Pots.
Now All I did was remove the old pickups and placed both Grounds to the Volume pots and hot of there respective Volume pots. Every thing works great! But I have been reading alot about electric shock and how if every thing is connected wrong it can cause a lethal shock hazard. I'm not at risk am I? All I did was replace the Pickups. no major re wiring was done. the only rewiring I did was by pass the tri tone knob that Ibanez put in the PF300 To help combat a lawsuit situation, and connected the bridge pickup straight to the volume pot Hot to Hot and Ground to the back of the Pot, just like the bridge pickup. I also believe that all grounds to the back of all pots were grounded together and connected as well as a wire going into the body somewhere, I'm assuming this is grounding to the Bridge. Any Imput would be greatly Appreitiated, Thank you in advance!

[newey]

Morbe-

If it's working fine, you have no worries.

The potential for lethal electrical shock can only come from your amplifier, not from your guitar. I don't know what you were reading to tell you otherwise.

Safety from amp shock hazards is a concern regardless of any wiring in your guitar. That hazard can be (hopefully) ameliorated through the use of a safety capacitor, as is discussed on the original Guitar Nuts site. The hazard can be eliminated completely by using a wireless system.

[morbe]

Yes I do Have a generic Wireless System, And I understand that Leathal shock comes from the Amp, but isnt the Amp connected to your guitar and thats how you get Shocked? Especialy if the Wiring is messed up in the guitar?

[pete12345]

In normal use, the guitar drives the amplifier, not the other way round- any current is generated by the pickups in the guitar and is very small.

Electric shock can occur with a malfunctioning amplifier that allows high voltages to pass between stages and into the guitar. The shock comes from the amplifier and gets to you through the guitar cord, correct. However, this is independent of the wiring in the guitar- you could be hanging on to an unplugged cord and still get shocked.

Generally speaking, fiddling with the guitar itself only risks damaging the guitar. The guitar's pickups can't generate anything close to harmful currents (in some wiring schemes, we directly short circuit a pickup to turn it off, with no ill effects.) Amplifiers are a different story though- don't poke around in here unless you know what you're doing!

Any electric shock will come from an amplifier fault, not from the guitar.

[morbe]

So What your saying is? If every thing worked before. Guitar and Amp every thing should still be fine? I'm a hobyist and play in my home studio. Dont play live too much but I don't normally sing. My friends know that it's not wise to give me a Mic. LOL. but any how when I here of people getting killed on stage it's the Amp or the PA that causes the deadly arch from Guitar to mic? I just dont understand electricity all that well when getting into details.

[ChrisK]

The three tone toggle is connected to the Ground and hot of the Cord Plug.

The 3-way pickup selector toggle switch has its output contact(s) connected to the output jack tip terminal. Its mechanical frame is connected to the output jack ring terminal, which is the wiring ground. It does not switch the ground, only the pickup output signals.

The Three tone toggle is also connected to Ground and hot on the Volume Pots.

The 3-way pickup selector toggle switch has its input contacts connected to the output terminals from each volume pot.

Now All I did was remove the old pickups and placed both Grounds to the Volume pots and hot of their respective Volume pots. Every thing works great!

Good job!

The only rewiring I did was bypass the tri tone knob that Ibanez put in the PF300 to help combat a lawsuit situation...

What lawsuit situation? If it's related to the copying of designs by the Japanese many years ago, no one cares today. If it's related to a possible safety lawsuit, I don't understand what you are saying.

""....and connected the bridge pickup straight to the volume pot Hot to Hot and Ground to the back of the Pot, just like the bridge pickup.""

I also believe that all grounds to the back of all pots were grounded together and connected as well as a wire going into the body somewhere, I'm assuming this is grounding to the Bridge.

Yep, standard wiring practice.

But I have been reading a lot about electric shock and how if every thing is connected wrong it can cause a lethal shock hazard.

Yes, but you have to make sure that you connect EVERYTHING wrong. ;D ;D

No, a passive electric guitar develops 1 volt AC maximum. The guitar in and of itself won't shock anything (well, maybe a little if you stick the other end of the cord in your mouth, play real hard, and do the "9 volt battery tongue test").

Oh, come on, every kid tested 9 volt batteries this way.

I'm not at risk am I? All I did was replace the Pickups. no major re wiring was done.

As newey mentions, the potential shock hazard comes from an amp that has an internal failure that places high voltage on its input lead (rare), or has its chassis and hence the guitar cable shield elevated to mains potential.

The latter can occur when the wiring in the building outlets is defective. Many amps from the 50's, 60's, and perhaps later had a two terminal line (mains) cord. One wire in a U.S. outlet is at neutral potential, but the other is at full line potential. Neither should be connected to the amp chassis, but the neutral side might be thru a polarized cord (who knows who did what when).

What was often the practice was to have a switch on the amp that connected either line cord conductor to the amp chassis thru a capacitor to reduce hum. Some amps had a capacitor from both leads to the chassis.

If that capacitor(s) has failed or is excessively leaky, mains potential could be applied to the chassis, to the shield, and to your body.

One can prevent such issue by using RF (wireless). Only lightning can jump that big of a gap. ;D ;D

But, don't depend on RF to protect you in a lightning storm, use a #1 iron. Even God can't hit a #1 iron............

The best approach is to buy an outlet tester that will indicate if there are any problems. Test every outlet before you plug in to it. After all, you don't know where its been or who its been with.

but I don't normally sing

Yeah, I also get a lot of requests when I sing.

[morbe]

Thanks, I Know some stuff I wrote could have been confusing. The Lawsuit was that Les Paul Copy Lawsuit So I read that they added a Tri tone switch that split the Neck Pickup. and Changed the Head stock Shape. I know of no Safety Lawsuit. Also What I meant to say is that I connected the Bridge Pickup Black to Hot and Green and Wire Braided to the Top of the Volume Pot(ground) and I did the Same for the Neck Pick up as originaly the Neck Pickup was connected to the Tri Tone Switch, that split the Neck Pickup.

[ChrisK]

Tri Tone Switch

Oh, sorry, I wasn't aware that the Tri Tone Switch was an additional coil split switch.

I'd assumed that it was your name for the 3-way pickup selector switch.

You could still use it with the SD pickups if they are 4-wire.

[morbe]

Yeah I tried to follow the instructions from the SD wiring diagram but it didnt work and I couldnt match the colors from the Super 70's Cuz they were Different. And I cant Find the Wiring diagram with the tritone Switch anywhere from the Web, Darn Ibanez only goes back to the year 2000. and I have no Idea how to get a hold of them .

[newey]

I cant Find the Wiring diagram with the tritone Switch anywhere from the Web,

You think that's a problem, try finding parts for old Ibanez stuff

However, if you do want to rewire the "tritone" back in, it shouldn't be very hard to figure out the wiring colors. Since it's working fine now, we can work out from your current wiring what is what on the pickups. And the operation of the switch is discoverable through the use of a multimeter. We'll help you figure this out if'n you want to tear into your "LP" again. You should post some photos of your wiring and the lawsuit switch in question.

If you just want to play it, secure in the knowledge that your RF transmitter protects you from Amp Armageddon, that's okay, too.

ChrisK will be pleased to see that I only italicized one word in this entire post. I have to thank Chris for his support throughout the difficult times I had in 2008 while in italics rehab. The pills are helping, too.

[ChrisK]

THANK GOD THAT YOURE DOING BETTER ITS A GOOD THING THAT OTHERS DONT HAVE SIMILAR TEXTING PROBLEMS AS ID BE HAVING TO SPEND TIME HELPING THEM THRU REHAB ALSO IM GLAD TO BE DOING BETTER MYSELF TO IMPROVE MY STEAD IN LIFE WHEN YOU GET LEMONS JUST MAKE LEMONADE GIVES ME HEARTBURN CAN BE CONFUSED WITH A HEART ATTACK LIFE WITH GUSTO.

('.'.'.') ;D ;D

[morbe]

I'll try to post some pictures later today or even later this evening. I cant play with my toys right now. I have to put away the x-mass decorations.