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Post by morbe on Jan 2, 2009 15:52:25 GMT -5
???I have a vintage Ibanez PF300 Les paul Copy (Post Law suit). The Pickups where bad and were feedbacking A LOT!!! So I took that as an oppertunity to get some Seymour duncans (hot Rodders) well Happy that I have great tone and absolutly no Feedback now with all amps and guitar Kranked to the max! I still have been getting some flack from friends and other forums. I am being looked down apon because I altered a Vintage Guitar. Just seeing what others thought about it.
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Post by Teleblooz on Jan 2, 2009 16:41:00 GMT -5
If feedback was the only problem, don't throw those puppies out. often a simple wax potting is enough to get rid of that problem. I've done it on several guitars and (except for one time when I didn't watch the clock closely enough) have been very happy with the results. All it takes is a double boiler, candy thermometer, and canning wax from the grocery store. Piece o' cake. |
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Post by andy on Jan 2, 2009 19:07:17 GMT -5
It all depends whether you are happier with your guitar now than before. If you are, then good for you. If your detractors want to buy a vintage guitar and keep it original for their own pleasure, then let them!
As Teleblooz says, the original pickups will be part of the guitars value, so don't bin them, and fixing them may be quite easy, but don't feel obliged to have them in a guitar you bought to play to it's best potential, just because some folks want it that way.
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 2, 2009 19:21:52 GMT -5
I think the question of altering a vintage guitar is a subjective one. Obviously, it's your instrument and you can do whatever you want with it. Now, if it's this one...I'm not touching it:  Gibson Les Paul Goldtop (More photos...) , 1957, VG+, original PAF pickups (early humbuckers with no stickers), professionally refretted, rough OHC and modern HC......$112,000.00 at Gruhn Guitars.But how many of us here will ever have one of these... Depending on the resale, or potential resale value...if I did make modifications I would make them as non-obtrusive as possible. I'd also save all the original parts just in case I did want to sell it...in order to restore it to its original condition. That being said, guitars were meant to be played. If making a modification means the guitar will be played versus living in a case for 30 years...then make the modifications. I own a 1988 Peavey Foundation, which I love, that's going to get a make-over. The two guitars I'm building are from abandoned instruments that would have been firewood if I hadn't picked them up. If modding your Ibanez means it has a home and will be played, then you did the right thing. If the other people on the the other forums are so deeply concerned, tell them to open a friggin' museum, ask them to make a cash offer and you'll ship it out. Otherwise, they can put a sock in it... Soapbox returned to upright and locked position... Happy Trials Cynical One |
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Post by newey on Jan 2, 2009 20:10:50 GMT -5
'57 Goldtops aside, I think Cyn has hit the nail on the head. An analogy to the world of Gear-heads (like me): For many years, those with an interest in old cars broke down into 2 groups: The Hot-Rodders were all about making old cars fast and cool-looking, OEM parts be damned. The Classic Car guys were all for keeping everything totally original, no deviation from stock whatsoever. These groups had their own gatherings and meets, and seldom mixed.  But, over time this has changed.  The 2 groups have largely merged. Nowadays, the Rodder crowd shows up at Classic Car events to ogle old machinery. And the Classic crowd has included judging in categories for "vintage hot rods"- for example, a '32 Ford with all-original '50s vintage speed equipment installed. And the prices of some of these older rods at auction have become as steep as the restorations of the originals are. A lot of the Rodder crowd has gotten older, made some money, and now sees the value in restored classics. Example #1- Jay Leno. So, the moral of the story is that, in about 30 years or so, you can expect a strong market for "modified Vintage" guitars and no one will give you flak for having one. |
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Post by andy on Jan 3, 2009 5:24:56 GMT -5
That's an interesting concept, Newey. I guess that truly vintage guitars will become less and less available over time, and when they do, the modded (and technically better, half the time) ones will be the next in line. Of course, the fashion now is for 'vintage' gear- it wasn't too far back when new style and technology was all the rage. Who would be seen dead playing a stuffy old Les Paul when you could have had a pink perspex Mockingbird with active electronics, a double effects rack taller than yourself and separate pre-amp, poweramp and speakers? And all whilst wearing blusher and a cod-piece? It's only a matter of time, folks! And when classic guitars are heading back towards the bargain bin, no-one will be interested because they'll all be after the now in-vogue virtua-holograph-intergalactic ray-powered guitar (with matching lipstick)! Well, perhaps not, but you get the point. In any event, I still think it is a shame that people are buying guitars as an investment. It takes decent instruments out of use, and makes crap ones worth a fortune because they are so old and knackered!  That may happen in the classic car scene, but I get the impression that they are far more willing to get stuck in, work on the cars themselves and then get out and drive them, show them, and to actually use them for their purpose. Rant in full swing, of course if I were offered a '57 Gold Top, I would be really pleased and really careful with it!  |
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Post by lpf3 on Jan 3, 2009 10:41:05 GMT -5
morbe - Vintage guitars that can't be played have little value , IMHO . +1 for fixin' it  That's a beautiful Goldtop , but $112,000 ?  I think I'm missing something . -lpf3 |
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Post by lunaalta on Jan 3, 2009 11:31:59 GMT -5
Phew, vintage cod-pieces I draw the line at. Love the LP........  |
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 3, 2009 13:00:24 GMT -5
Who would be seen dead playing a stuffy old Les Paul... This guy...  or this guy...  or this guy...  okay...so he's dead... But what about: Dave Davies...Rick Derringer...Elliot Easton...David Gilmour...John Lee Hooker...Rick Nielsen...Tom Scholz...Johnny Winter... I guess it comes down to a question of preferences... This:  or this...  Okay...got that out of my system...I feel better now... Happy Trails Cynical One |
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Post by ChrisK on Jan 3, 2009 21:23:43 GMT -5
Apparently, a beautiful '57 Goldtop! |
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Post by ChrisK on Jan 3, 2009 21:32:06 GMT -5
What makes folk think that the next generations will be interested in the toys of OUR youth? After all, things are only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. (Pssst, it's all an insurance company premium inflation conspiracy.) |
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Post by andy on Jan 4, 2009 17:55:43 GMT -5
Cyn, now I see how the newspapers do it! Without the rest of the sentence it sounds like I meant that! For the record, I play a stuffy old Tele and stuffy old SG. Pink, perspex or otherwise, just wouldn't match my blusher... |
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 4, 2009 19:36:36 GMT -5
Cyn, now I see how the newspapers do it! Yes, yes they do. But it's all in good fun...nudge, nudge, wink, wink...know what I mean...know what I mean... Sorry, it was just too good a shot and I had to take it... I don't think anyone here would pass on a vintage gold top. A very old friend of mine still has his 1971 gold top in mint condition. No cracks, scratches or belt rash...he even makes you remove all watches, rings and belts before you touch it...granted, he does wash his hand a lot, too... The closest I ever came to a vintage axe was a 1973 jazz bass. I sold it for $350.00 because I didn't like the color... Anyone who wants to can line up to kick me... Happy Trails Cynical One |
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Post by andy on Jan 5, 2009 13:12:09 GMT -5
No need to be sorry!  The closest I ever came to owning a vintage guitar was an '83 or 4 Squier Strat ( www.guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=music&action=display&thread=3073&page=3 ) which is hardly the finest, but the Japanese ones are getting quite respectable prices now. I suppose I probably did turn a profit on it, come to think, but that wasn't the reason for selling it. I just prefered the Tele and wanted to prove to my wife she was more important than my guitars! Rest assured that Strat was well moddifed when in my possession, but I returned to almost original to sell it. I too wash my hands far too much, and I'm sure it is mostly to do with keeping my guitars clean and making the strings last longer. It just became too much of a habit! |
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lpdeluxe
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Post by lpdeluxe on Jan 9, 2009 11:15:14 GMT -5
I don't get the whole concept of "vintage." I buy guitars to play, and toward that end I look for bang for the buck. Paying $112K for guitar is something so far out of my sense of values that I can't even think of an appropriate comment (I paid $750 for my '70 Gibson LP Deluxe, which I modded with Seymour Duncan SM-1s, thank you very much).
In 1982 I bought a used '63 Gretsch Chet Atkins Country Gent for $425, with the original two-tone case. While I wasn't looking, it transformed from "used" to "vintage." I discovered this when I went to the local music store and tried to buy some pots to replace the frozen originals. "Man, don't do that -- you'll kill the value!" What? Making a guitar functional kills its resale value? So I sold it for $3100 and got an Epiphone Sheraton II, which I happily rewired with SD pickups and new pots and switch. For a total outlay of around $450 I had a playable, attractive semi-hollow that I could modify to my heart's content without the anal originality police coming around.
Eventually I did some horse trading and ended up with a nice blonde 335 to go with the Les Paul, but I shy away from anything with the "vintage" tag on it. I feel no need to pay more than an instrument's intrinsic value for someone else's fantasies. Pixie dust is always in demand, but it's never anything other than pixie dust.
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Post by mlrpa on Jan 10, 2009 2:38:31 GMT -5
AS I said in my vote, depends on the situation. I have a 65 non reverse Gibby Firebird I picked up at a pawn shop for a whopping $165.00 US. It was modified when I got it, so I "retro-modded *" it. Went back to the white pickguard and the 2 P90's. (Ok, they were from Mitey Mite and sounded wonderful.) But I kept one mod on it. Someone replaced the old bent metal tremelo with a stop tail piece. I tried the tremelo, but switched it immediatly back. The tone with the tremelo died. Which led to thinking.... If I get a vintage piece that is lacking in some area, I'm going to fix it. Or else, not own it. What purpose is it to me, if it doesn't suit me? * I like that term, "retro-modded". Feel free to use it. |
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Post by wolf on Jan 18, 2009 17:46:11 GMT -5
For one thing I'd never buy a guitar for its vintage value and I think a lot of us feel the same way. Heck, this is Guitar Nutz where the members care about tone and not looks.  And if you notice that photo of Frank Zappa, he added some extra switches and changed the bridge pickup in his Les Paul. Guess he felt that those chrome-covered, epoxy-filled, sealed-for-eternity "bricks" just didn't have enough tonal range. How sad do you think he felt about "destroying" the vintage value of that guitar? And for those that think I wouldn't drill through a top notch guitar, here is my Gibson SG Standard:  That's a 1980 Gibson, wow 29 years old - that's truly vintage. I bet if I sold that, it would solve the national debt. Oh but wait - I changed the pickups and added all those switches which completely destroys any of its vintage value. And by the way morbe, you said Tell those "friends" to come to this forum. |
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Post by gitpiddler on Jan 21, 2009 22:00:33 GMT -5
Once it's paid off, kick it around, scratch it, carve a pentagram on it, whatever it takes to get over that precious feeling |
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razbo
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Post by razbo on Apr 28, 2009 14:04:10 GMT -5
Is early 70's vintage? I have 2 guitars and they are at least classic I suppose, but only by chance. A Hagstrom II which I am disproportionately attached to, and a Gibson L6 that rivals my fancies toward my GF. (Shh!) The L6 is near mint and all original. The Hag is rather roadworn but also all original. One of the bridge retainers (guess it could be called that) has broken, but I can't bring myself to replace it and have not been able to find an original part to replace it. I run the E string thru the tremolo lock screw to hold it.  |
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Post by ux4484 on Apr 28, 2009 17:17:27 GMT -5
I get a little sad when I think about the old neighborhood music stores I used to haunt in my teen years, especially to think that I had the coin (working part time) to pick up a few treasures....like a Vox Teardrop guitar, or a K with a Kelvinator headstock, or a Gibson 335 that had a busted switch and a cracked nut (and was very dusty) All of the above could have been in my hands for around $140-$275 each. I knew they were cool, but being a bass player only at the time, I couldn't justify the purchase.
I doubt I would have modded any of them (except for grounding and or repairs).
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Post by newey on Apr 28, 2009 19:46:31 GMT -5
Razbo-
I've always wanted one of those.
Back in the day (as we oldsters say) my local music shop carried Fender, Gretsch and Hagstrom. If you couldn't afford a Fender, and wanted a solid body, you bought a Hagstrom.
In my junior high garage band, the lead guitarist had a Hagstrom I. This was a truly funky looking thing with a clamshell body. The back was wood, covered with red tolex, and the top was some sort of fiberglass/resin concoction, also red, with a music staff logo on the pickguard.
At the time, my band bretheren thought the Hagstrom I was dated and weird-looking, while the II was considered über-cool.
Your question of "what is vintage?" is a good one in the guitar world. Basically, it can mean whatever the speaker wants it to mean. Your reference to "classic" refers, I assume, to the automotive world where these terms have handy, defined meanings.
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razbo
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Post by razbo on Apr 29, 2009 11:33:24 GMT -5
Your question of "what is vintage?" is a good one in the guitar world. Basically, it can mean whatever the speaker wants it to mean. Your reference to "classic" refers, I assume, to the automotive world where these terms have handy, defined meanings. Another one to look up. And I just got done figuring out the Tremo-leo thing I had thought "Classic" was anything 20+ years old? At least that's what the radio stations tell me they are playing when they play my 70's stuff. Unfortunately, my newb-ness does not translate to spring chicken-ness. |
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Post by cynical1 on Apr 29, 2009 11:58:30 GMT -5
If you really think you have something, or want to find out, I'd try Gruhn Guitars. They may have something similar listed which would give you some indication of what it's worth on the market...intrinsic value aside... If nothing shows up on their site, for $50.00 they'll do an on-line appraisal. You just provide a detailed describing of the condition, age and a few pictures then wait and see what comes back. Or, take the cheap route...call them, tell them you're looking to sell and what's a ballpark range for the guitar... If they put you on hold while they go out for sandwiches...well, then you know... Happy Trails Cynical One PS: And you can ponder a second mortgage while you browse some of their stock... |
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Post by newey on Apr 29, 2009 16:28:10 GMT -5
This makes Nirvana's "Nevermind" a classic 2 years from now! That really makes me feel old!
In the automotive world, the Classic Car Club of America's definition of "vintage" means a car produced between 1918 and 1930. "Antique" cars are before that.
"Classic" means 1930 to 1948, although to be a classic a car also has to be of limited production, have innovative design, or be highly desirable- the CCCA maintains a list of those considered truly "classic" during that time period; ordinary Chevys, etc, need not apply.
My point was, in the guitar world by comparison, it's a virtual free-for-all definition-wise. I hear talk of '80s-era Ibanez gits being called "vintage". Go figure.
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Post by ChrisK on Apr 29, 2009 17:05:33 GMT -5
Yeah, well, when it's all said and done, my kids are right - I'm just ancient.
In PA one can get "classic car" plates on things much newer than 1948.
Hey, I must really be a classic; after all, I'm of limited production.
;D ;D
But I'm newer than 1948.
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Post by angelodp on Jun 6, 2009 22:03:21 GMT -5
My 2c .... Make it work for you. Play it.
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Post by Teleblooz on Jun 12, 2009 20:26:48 GMT -5
The closest I ever came to a vintage axe was a 1973 jazz bass. I sold it for $350.00 because I didn't like the color... Anyone who wants to can line up to kick me... I feel your pain. Mine was a '71 Jazz Bass - I sold it to buy a synthesizer. Probably the most colossally stupid move ever. |
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Post by sydsbluesky on Jun 23, 2009 19:52:28 GMT -5
I'd gig with a '57 goldtop if it sounded off like the champ I'd expect it to without hesitation. But two "vintage" guitar stories, here. When I graduated from high school my mom wanted to buy me a guitar... I found a nice 'vintage' gibby deluxe from the "garbage' years at gibson hanging in the local GC. Same price as the new one(discontiued or not, they still seem to ship out regularly.) My mom asked me which I wanted, and I said the vintage, but that's just because it had better action and I knew it would stay that way...... I played both side by side. A/B comparisons. Even used the same SEAT. Color was the same... everything. The Old "garbage" gibson sounded better. 17 whatever pieces of wood be damned. It felt better and sounded better. I put in my order to the matriarch and made plans to skip prom and almost get arrested... aannnnyyway... A month later I got a wine red 2005 gibson les paul deluxe. Either way, I got one hell of a guitar and nothing on my preferment record... guess I can't complain. Story two. The guy in my band, Dave, has one of the 80s japanese made squier products that I think Andy is talking about. His it the Tele, though. The '52 reissue. That thing has the sound. It's a beautiful guitar in every way, and he practices with it, gigs with it and even sits around drinking beer in his underwear playing it unplugged. His GF's dad got it at a flea market in Michigan someplace near their house for 125 bucks with hard case. When he finally gave it to Dave and we exhumed it from it's dusty grave, we discovered that it was absolutely UNTOUCHED. Not a scratch on the frets. No. Nothing. It's a great guitar. Frets are skillfully and thoughtfully nestled into the digitpiece, and the thing has wonderful feel. That's my vintage story... still kinda butt hurt about the 78 LP. |
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Post by sydsbluesky on Jun 23, 2009 19:57:53 GMT -5
OH!
I heard this on the radio today, actually.
Thy were talking about Gary Busey buying Buddy Holly's acoustic for something like 240K
They followed it up with a Gary Busy line about the removal of an endocrine system from some random show/movie of which I am unaware.
Hey, I thought it was funny.
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Post by sumgai on Jun 23, 2009 21:56:03 GMT -5
The closest I ever came to a vintage axe was a 1973 jazz bass. I sold it for $350.00 because I didn't like the color... Anyone who wants to can line up to kick me...
I feel your pain. Mine was a '71 Jazz Bass - I sold it to buy a synthesizer. Probably the most colossally stupid move ever.Nope. You aren't the one who actually owned and used a gen-u-wine '57 Strat, all original except for the re-fret job. After nearly a year, I sold it for what seems to be par for the course - $350. Of course, this was in 1973, so I can't be blamed too much for reading the wrong tea leaves.... sumgai |
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The 2 groups have largely merged. Nowadays, the Rodder crowd shows up at Classic Car events to ogle old machinery. And the Classic crowd has included judging in categories for "vintage hot rods"- for example, a '32 Ford with all-original '50s vintage speed equipment installed. And the prices of some of these older rods at auction have become as steep as the restorations of the originals are.
That may happen in the classic car scene, but I get the impression that they are far more willing to get stuck in, work on the cars themselves and then get out and drive them, show them, and to actually use them for their purpose.
I think I'm missing something .
