SG and aged magnets

[angelodp]

I just scored a great Epi Vintage SG, nice, with bound neck 57 and hot HumB pickups. Plays great. i then went into town to play a vintage SG and I must say that the Epi is close but different. The Gibson SG seemed to have a rounder more singy tone. How does the age of pickup affect tone. Is it worth swapping out these pickups ofr sumthin really special ... what would that be. Think Clapton tone SG

[newey]

How does the age of pickup affect tone.

Ask 5 guitarists that question, get 6 different opinions. A much-debated subject to put it mildly.

You can read a lot of theories of how aging a coil affects its tone. For my money it's mostly malarkey. I do believe that there was probably more manufacturing variance in materials used and in technique of manufacture, in older production. Modern ones may be more uniform from one to another as a result.

Is it worth swapping out these pickups ofr sumthin really special

If it's a good instrument that plays well, upgrading the pickups can make a big difference. The choice thereof is obviously very subjective. Whether putting in a set of Gibson vintage HBs would recreate the sound you had with the other SG is an open question.

All you can really do is listen to, and play if possible, different HBs in different SGs and see what you like.

[cynical1]

Feb 4, 2009 21:52:09 GMT -5 angelodp said:

I just scored a great Epi Vintage SG, nice, with bound neck 57 and hot HumB pickups. Plays great. i then went into town to play a vintage SG and I must say that the Epi is close but different. The Gibson SG seemed to have a rounder more singy tone. How does the age of pickup affect tone. Is it worth swapping out these pickups ofr sumthin really special ... what would that be. Think Clapton tone SG

I have to agree with newey...pickups and tone are a very subjective thing. You really have to go with what you feel sounds best for you.

As far as the age of the pickup determining the "tonal quality"...you need to put it into perspective. It's not the age of the pickup so much as the manufacturing process and raw materials in place at the time when said pickup was made.

Magnets have changed, along with bobbins and wire...as well as the physical act of winding the pickup.

There's a good interview with John Suhr that makes the point better then I do.

And to your question about the old Gibson SG pickups sounding the same in your guitar...they probably won't. There are so many things effect the tone on your guitar BEFORE you get to the electronics that a quest to replicate the tone from one guitar of a certain age to another guitar of a different age becomes a Quest for the Grail. It may make an improvement, but you have to ask if that possible improvement is worth the investment in a set of vintage pickups.

Well, enough of that for now...

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[andy]

It's not the age of the pickup so much as the manufacturing process and raw materials in place at the time when said pickup was made.

Exactly. Age is not so much an issue for pickups as the age of the wood of the guitar itself! The thing to look at is how the tone you have needs to change to be 'closer' (forget 'the same') to the other guitar. As you say that the sound is 'rounder' you can assume that more vintage voiced pickups will help- that is usually lower output, with alnico magnets. I don't know what the make up of the pickups you have is, but it is worth finding out. If they have high output, and ceramic magnets, bingo. Any low output, alnico pickup will improve matters significantly. If they are already alnico, look for some with a lower impedance (which basically means less windings round the coil, hence less output). I've not tried it myself, but alnico II is supposed to be warmer toned that alnico IV, which is the norm in most pickups, so may be another way to vintage-ize from alnicos. Covered pickups tend, in my opinion to sound warmer too, so bear that in mind.

Seymour Duncans website is a good place to compare factors, as they have a huge range of different types of pickups, with lots of sound clips. Looking there doesn't mean you have to choose that brand, but it can get you started on how many variations there are, and how they affect the sound of an instrument too.

www.seymourduncan.com/comparetones

[ChrisK]

The Gibson SG seemed to have a rounder more singy tone.

I'm not sure what a "singy" tone is. I'm more familiar with "dancy" tone (mine always seems to elude me). ;D ;D

I might guess that a "rounder" tone is more like the Alnico II vs Alnico V. this would indicate a "rounding off" of some of the high frequencies.

Gee, my Pickup Coil Response Tuning thread relates directly to, uh, pickup response tuning.

It's simple to do. Just make a box with two 1/4" jacks on it and with a selector switch for several caps (values as in my thread) and a pot in series with it, all in parallel with the thru signal (just like a regular tone control circuit).

Dial in the cap and resistance that you really like (do make sure that the pot is set to zero Ohms as you try different caps, then "dial-out" with the pot. You will need to measure the pot setting resistance as you will replace it with a fixed resistor and cap inside the guitar (possibly on a pickup by pickup basis).

Make sure that you use the same cable that you use all the time. It's a component (capacitance) part of your tone (or lack thereof).

AS a matter of fact; if you need a "rounder" tone, just use a crappier cable (you DID use the SAME cable for your comparison, didn't you?).

As I mention in my thread, I use this kind of "dial a cap". I use my LCR meter to read the desired setting value. I also don't use a pot but a resistor box with standard values selected by a many position rotary switch.