working with cloth wire

[angelodp]

What are the pros and cons of working with cloth wire? I have some stuff that has a black under coating and nice green woven exterior. I know that vintage amps have this stuff in them and it looks cool, but after working with teflon and PVC coated wire, i wonder if their is any reason beyond the aesthetic look of the cloth stuff to using it in a build.

I would also love to see any builds in guitars or amps that members have done.

best Ange

[newey]

Pro: Retro cool looks, which few will ever see.

Con: It's a PITA to work with.

You'll notice that I didn't mention "tone". Nor did I mention 'Juju dust".

i wonder if their is any reason beyond the aesthetic look of the cloth stuff to using it in a build.

No.

[lpdeluxe]

May 20, 2009 22:37:13 GMT -5 newey said:

You'll notice that I didn't mention "tone". Nor did I mention 'Juju dust". .

Hmmm...Angelodp, maybe you'd better look for someone with more expertise. This guy doesn't understand the real reason for using it. ;D

[D2o]

May 21, 2009 11:17:19 GMT -5 lpdeluxe said:

May 20, 2009 22:37:13 GMT -5 newey said:

You'll notice that I didn't mention "tone". Nor did I mention 'Juju dust". .

Hmmm...Angelodp, maybe you'd better look for someone with more expertise. This guy doesn't understand the real reason for using it. ;D

Yeah, really!

I know that phone wire hasn't always worked out for everyone - wink, wink, lp - but I still swear by Wolf's great idea (at least for use in wiring guitars, as opposed to amps. Well ... I guess I endorse it's use in applications involving phones, too ...)

I think that what happens with cloth wire is that it is vintage, which costs more, and so only rich people can afford it, and everyone knows that rich people have extra class ... so there ya go.

If you just want to wire your guitar easily, phone wire works great ... but if you want extra class, you need the cloth wire.

[rhager11]

Maybe this is off base but I was thinking a good application may be to use the cloth wire for splicing. You could pull back the cloth, cut some of the wire and splice to another wire. Since you cut the wire, when you pull the cloth back over it, the cloth would cover the splice which would eliminate the need for tape or shrink wrap.

[D2o]

Nut'in is off base around here, hager.

I would still use tape, BUT sometimes tape loses it's adhesiveness after a while. Your idea would provide a barrier so that the tape would be less likely to just fall out of place, plus it could indeed provide an extra layer of insulation between the wires and anything else that they shouldn't be coming into contact with.

I wouldn't buy it just for this purpose, but since Ange does have some already ...

Oh - Ange: I sure hope you didn't take offense at my "rich people have extra class" joke. It's a line from a movie - that's all. You've got extra-extra class, funny wires or not.

[sumgai]

Just when I thought it was safe to go back to playing surf guitar....





Destroyer Duck, you owe me, big time - I just raised my laundry bill by 25%!!

[D2o]

May 21, 2009 16:49:04 GMT -5 sumgai said:

Destroyer Duck, you owe me, big time - I just raised my laundry bill by 25%!!

Sorry about that big gai - the devil made me do it ... but I'm glad you noticed.

The Mrs. didn't get too mad at your loss of control, I trust?

[sumgai]

D2o,

No, she lost it too..... we both need a special paddle.





sumgai

[ChrisK]

I would still use tape, BUT sometimes tape loses it's adhesiveness after a while. Your idea would provide a barrier so that the tape would be less likely to just fall out of place, plus it could indeed provide an extra layer of insulation between the wires and anything else that they shouldn't be coming into contact with.

The magic word is heat shrink tubing.

Oooh, the other magic word is.....insulation.

Cloth wire may look cool (it actually looks old and isn't used in real products anymore because it's crappy, and over time its insulation turns to crap), and is fine in a pointless kind of way for internal guitar wiring, but one should ensure that any wire used for any given voltage is insulation rated for that voltage.

If this is related to plate voltages in a tube amp, it's somewhat likely that telephone jack wire is not rated for 400 to 600 VDC.


If Leo were making amps today, he certainly would not be using cloth/rubber insulated wire. He'd be using the plastic insulated plated steel stuff from China that's about $16 per 1,000 feet, and printed circuit boards wherever possible.

[D2o]

May 21, 2009 17:26:12 GMT -5 ChrisK said:

If this is related to plate voltages in a tube amp, it's somewhat likely that telephone jack wire is not rated for 400 to 600 VDC.

Thanks, Chris

I didn't even realize that this thread was in the amps section.

It's a good thing I inserted my little for guitars caveat, and an even better thing that you put an even bigger not for amps caveat.

[lpdeluxe]

Man, D2o, have you got a long memory!

Ya know, that Epiphone probably would've sounded even better if I'd used cloth-covered wire.

In the event, though, Sherry is gone, supplanted by a blonde Gibson 335. And I won't be rewiring it with phone wire, any time soon. ;D

[angelodp]

Whoa!! This was a little like a Marx brothers movie.... mad cap ..... Ok I should have been more precise. I ask about the cloth wire because I am about to do a 5E3 amp build ( Deluxe ) and the kit comes with cloth wire, but I really prefer PVC and teflon. I was just wondering if the cloth wire had any other properties that made it useful. It looks like a PITA to me. I will be going to Apex jr to restock on teflon I guess. But thanks for the replies and the sense of humor.

best Ange

[ChrisK]

Is the cloth wire cloth over PVC or teflon, or is it cloth over rubber?

The first is safe in a cute vintage way, the second is just obsolete technology.

[lpdeluxe]

Can't hurt, and if it looks good, so much the better, assuming that you'll be showing it off.

There's a tendency among tech-heads to get the latest trick goodies and to assume that they are not only desirable, but necessary.

There's been a discussion on another forum about why Gibson doesn't use the "highest quality" (I forget what the exact criteria were) glue to laminate their 335s. I had the temerity to point out that the glue they were using seemed to work fine, and my own 335 sounded great, and could the person raising the question guarantee that the "highest quality" glue would actually sound better -- or, more importantly, not sound worse?

I'm put in mind of my motorcycle racing days, when some guys insisted on making everything out of unobtanium, even though something like bent sheet aluminum would have worked just as well. One friend somehow acquired purple teflon-coated platinum wire (if memory serves) for the constant-loss ignition on his Norton Manx-framed CB450 racer.

Need I add that he was routinely blown into the weeds by guys who concentrated on building simple, easily maintained machines?

Cloth-covered wire was a useful, functional and mature technology in its time, and it became obsolescent because it's much cheaper to make wire coated with various plastics or teflon or whatnot.

Remember, contrary to what the current generation may think, vacuum tubes were not invented in the '60s for guitar players.