Problem with Aria TA 40

[lunaalta]

Hi all,
As occasionally happens an acuaintance has given me his Aria TA 40 to 'fix' (well, it's not always a TA 40, sometimes a strat or LP or.....well never mind all that.).

I wonder if anyone here has experience or advice regarding this...

I have an Aria Pro II TA 40 (Union Jack) with a pick up problem .
There are 2 HB style pus with a single screened signal lead each. We have 2 vol and 2 tone controls (1 each pu) plus a 3 pos 'single pole' ('if I remember correctly') switch. There appears to be an earth connection to the bridge and tailpiece (good) which complicates removal of the electrics through a pu mount hole (the only way visible) because of it's short length.
I wanna be able to reassemble the thing after, hopefully, fixing it!

Using the 3 position switch, Neck pu is fine, both pus fine and both sounding, but, bridge position gets a VERYy low output of bridge pu (see note* below).

Messing with the volume and tone controls, in the 'both pus' position, brings about changes that indicate power and control of both pus in this position.

Also, when switching back from bridge pu to, say, neck pu, it takes a moment for the signal to gather strength and deliver full signal.

Now, I would guess that the 3 pos selector switch is at fault, but, this thing about going back to the neck position and the signal climbing up rather than switching in, which works fine alone, makes me think of a faulty cap?¿?¿

(note *) Ahhhh, one other observation, when I take the thing apart, each time more and more...LOL, when tapping the pus with a screwdriver, they both sound live and equally loud, the both pus!

The reason I am asking here, apart from the obvious 'you guys are interested and experienced', is related to the difficulty of removing the electrics of a semi acoustic, with no idea of what you want to do. Twice I have part removed the wires had a result, put it back together and ended up at square 1.

I would be grateful for any ideas as to resolving this ghost pu problem.

Thanks...
Ted

[D2o]

Ted,

I can't find anything out about this guitar ... other than it is sort of like an ES-335 and the ghost pup may be of Aria's own design and manufacture.

I read something about how the pups could be mixed, unlike a Les Paul ... I didn't follow it, but it did cause me to not point you to the Seymour Duncan wiring schematics site just yet.

Also, read lpdeluxe's reply #17 on f-hole wiring - great stuff.

Hopefully someone will come along with something else.

[lunaalta]

Thanks for your responce, D2o, that link is excellent (funny too!).

I can't find anything out about this guitar ...

Yeah, there is little info available, nice axe though....
I rang the Aria distributor in Valencia, Spain, close to me, and got absolutely no help whatever, 'phew with so much product how could we possibly carry circuit diagrams for everything'. I wonder how/if their service dept functions¿ LOL

I used strings tied to the controls to make it easy to put them back in place and dragged them out through the pickup cavities,

Looks like I'm gonna have to go at it again, but a little deeper.
I'm just not happy going in without info of any kind.

Looks like this favour has a steep learning curve

[D2o]

Yeah, that is a good tutorial that lpdeluxe gave us.

Ted - can you please take some pickup readings in each switch position?

Thanks,
D2o

[lunaalta]

Yeah, I did that today actually....
Can't remember the numbers, but neck and both read the same and in the bridge position I got a zero reading, so I guess the switch is kaput?

Thanx for the interest

[ashcatlt]

If the bridge pickup reads 0 Ohms, and the "both" postion is a parallel combination (which is most likely), then that "both" position must also read 0. 0 in parallel with anything equals 0.

I'm guessing you read out of range or infinite, which indicates that the bridge pickup is either failed open or not attached on one end or another.

[lunaalta]

Hi ashcatlt ,
I didn't mention that these readings are across the output terminals of the guitar, not direct from the pus.

Dishing the individual vol controls in the both position gives a reading for both.

I guess I'll have to get at the switch and check that seperately.

[D2o]

I previously mentioned that I read that the setup is not exactly the same as a typical Gibson.

I found a discussion initiated by an owner of a similar Aria Pro II hollowbody, so that you can read his description of what goes on with the wiring - in case it helps.

[ashcatlt]

Jul 9, 2009 3:45:01 GMT -5 lunaalta said:

Hi ashcatlt ,
I didn't mention that these readings are across the output terminals of the guitar, not direct from the pus.

Well, I kinda figgered. Otherwise the switch would be irrelevant.

Dishing the individual vol controls in the both position gives a reading for both.

Not sure what this means. If it means that turning the volumes changes the readings in the both position it helps to confirm my statement. You can't possibly have 0 ohms across the bridge pickup and get any kind of output in the both position.

Well, it's probably possible in some strange circumstance, but... You said you don't remember the exact readings. Can you take them again and confirm whether it's reading 0 (zero) ohms, or giving an out of range, infinite, OL, or whatever your meter does?

I guess I'll have to get at the switch and check that seperately.

I'm hoping for you that it's just a broken connection somewhere between the bridge pup and the rest of the circuit.

[D2o]

I didn't quite follow the dishing thing either - I understand the following a little better:

When it is in the up position you get rythm, down position = treble, and middle position you can tweak a little out of each one.

In the middle position, with both volume knobs on about 6, I can cut one pickup up or down and not the other and vice versa.

If I cut one pup completly off the other one stays at 6.

Apparently, the Aria is not wired like a Les Paul - possibly explaining the strange combination Ash mentioned.

In addition to what Ash has requested, can you clarify if you mean that there are certain circumstances where you actually get readings from either/or/ the bridge as well as both pickups?

(I think you already told us that you do - but can you give details on what happens, and what the switch, tone and volume settings are when it happens?)

If so, it is possible that there is actually nothing wrong with the wiring, and it may just be Aria's "different" wiring.

[ChrisK]

A diligent, formal process is needed.

What ash is asking for is vital to understanding things. Let's break one thing at a time.


Test your meter.

Set the meter to the maximum resistance range. Don't let the probes touch anything including each other. What do you read (it should be something like "OR" or "1,999"). This means OverRange or open.

Set the meter to the minimum resistance range. Make the probes touch each other. What do you read (it should be "0.000"). This means Short or 0 Ohms.


First and foremost; Turn the bridge volume all the way up to full on. Turn the bridge tone all the way up to full out (no tone cut).

Turn the neck volume all the way up to full on. Turn the neck tone all the way up to full out (no tone cut).


Set the selector to the bridge pickup only. Measure the resistance at the output jack. It should be around 5,000 to 15,000 Ohms. Post the Ohms reading.

Set the selector to the neck pickup only. Measure the resistance at the output jack. Post the Ohms reading.

Set the selector to both pickups. Measure the resistance at the output jack. Post the Ohms reading.

For all of the three readings, adjust the meter resistance range to get a reading that is between "0" and whatever indicated OverRange. Include the range used with all measurements.

[lunaalta]

Hmm, OK, over the weekend I'll try to get the readings/info asked for.

Dishing = setting to zero (I played a bit with circuits in the 60s + early 70s).

D2o, that last link helped a lot.

In the middle position, with both volume knobs on about 6, I can cut one pickup up or down and not the other and vice versa.

This is what makes me think the pup is OK, since I get the same, just no output when in the bridge position.

With both volume and tone full clockwise (on) From the output lead I get no reading from the bridge, from the neck I get 3.4, from both I get 3.8, meter set to 20k.

Thanks again for the help and apologies for my lapsidaisical ways (I'm working with a singer right now trying to get a band in gear, which is taking a lot of time).

ChrisK, over the weekend I'll do as you suggest, checking the meter has got to be a good move

[sumgai]

Ted,

I'm a bit surprised that Chris didn't link this hisownself....

When you're doing all this rootin' around, you can refer to the following link to keep things straight in your mind, and to check against the chart(s) to be sure you've accomplished all the steps. Sometime ago Chris kindly wrote for us:

Discerning LP-Type Resistances

which lays out how to make all the necessary measurements without opening up the guitar at all. Giving us the results of that procedure will probably take us right to the failure point.

Waiting on you..........





sumgai

[ChrisK]

From the output lead I get no reading from the bridge, from the neck I get 3.4, from both I get 3.8, meter set to 20k

I'll take this with a grain of salt for now. No reading from the bridge is bad form, Sparky!

Test your meter.

Set the meter to the maximum resistance range. Don't let the probes touch anything including each other. What do you read (it should be something like "OR" or "1,999"). This means OverRange or open.

Now, no reading (aka the display is blank or the needle didn't move) may mean OverRange as you may have/will discern(d) while testing the meter, but we gots to know this fer sure.

Did you try the highest resistance range as well? After all, you should still be able to read the value of the volume pot.

It does appear that the bridge pickup path has an open.

[lunaalta]

ChrisK
My bad, no reading meant open circuit (i.e. no resistance). I'm pretty sure the meter is good.

All readings have been taken from a (good) lead plugged into the output jack of the guitar!

I'm pretty decided that I'll have to get the electrics out of the body and check the switch. Trouble is, there are fiestas in my village at the moment (fireworks, parades, lots of noise and distraction), so it may have to wait till monday, when I can concentrate.....

[ChrisK]

Ah, yes, the "it's too festive to work excuse". ;D ;D

[cynical1]

Sermon for the day:



Amen.

Now, back to the festival...

Happy Trails

Cynical One



(EDITed to make the image work (it was remote linked from a host that disallowed such.))

[lunaalta]

OK, guys, I think I fixed it.

The fiesta ended, eventually (we are talking 3 days with just 6 hours sleep). Oh, and I have a serious toothache at the moment, also 3 days long......

I pulled the selector switch out through the f hole, after dismounting both volume and tone controls to give me a bit of slack, and resoldered all the joints.
apparently, VOILA ;D
2 days later all is still working.

Still wondering why when I switch to bridge pu the signal slides in rather than switching in, but that's for another day.

In the meantime the guy (he is a motorcycle mechanic with a bunch of really cool Harleys, etc, in his shop) gave me his Encore solid to fix, it hums......
I may get back to you.

In the meantime, thanks for all of your interest, normally I would have checked for dry joints in the first place. LOL.

Keep on keeping on....

[D2o]

Ted,

You rock! Good stuff.

Hopefully these guys may be able to eliminate the ghost pickup issue.

D2o

[ChrisK]

normally I would have checked for dry joints in the first place.

?During a festival?

LOL.

[lunaalta]

He, he, he, ChrisK,
LOL, sounds like you know about these Spanish village fiestas.
Friday and saturday nights, after the formal 'moors and christians' stuff, the street turns into a live music/disco party zone, we're talking of starting around 1:00 am!
Most bars stay open while there are people on their feet, but apart from the normal bars there are casals or penyas, where the various groups of villagers run their own bars, handing out free drinks, 'til the next formal stuff starts, at around 8:00 am the following morning.
I know you would hate it.....

I actually stayed home through most of it, but the street noise was enough to keep me awake. Particularly on sunday when they brought out the horses and brass bands (maybe 6 or 7 bands), starting their procession directly under my 2nd floor apartment balcony.

Main reason I stayed home? I'm not as young as I was ('51 vintage) and I know that next week the village's patron saint fiestas begin with a week of 'bull running' in the streets, plus the street bars, paella competition, live music 3 or 4 nights (we're talking a serious PA system 'til 5:00 am), around 10 days of fiesta in all. Not sure how I'll get to fit any work in to this schedule.... Best thing is to just give in to it all and join in.

You have to bear in mind that all the villages around here (Valencia Comunidad) are doing the exact same thing, but of course staggering the dates. If you are fit and able, you can go to fiestas every day from july through august. ;D

I'm just glad I got the Aria fixed and thankful for the help and encouragement from here

The Encore solid was easy, loose volume and tone controls pulled a couple of wires and the tone cap off. Well, he is a biker with a rather heavy handed son bashing away on his axes

Well, back to sorting out my (5 day long) toothache!