HSS Strat slight tweak on standard help.

[ditch]

I am putting together a HSS strat and looking for a help on finding a way to get the wiring I am looking for.

The pickups are BareKnuckles rebel Yell (4 core) neck, Fender Texas Special Strat (RWRP) mid and Fender Texas Special Tele Neck (NOT rwrp).

So, If I had a Fender S1 Switch and fender superswitch, along with 2 tone nobs, 1 for mid/neck and the other for bridge, would this be possible?


Switch Up (fairly standard)
1. Neck - Neck/Mid Tone Pot.
2. Neck and Mid in Parallel- Neck/Mid Tone Pot.
3. Neck alone- Neck/Mid Tone Pot.
4. Mid to Series Bridge HB in parallel- Neck/Mid Tone and Bridge Tone.
5. Series Bridge -Bridge Tone

Switch Down (a bit more unusual)
1. Neck/Mid in Series- Neck/Mid Tone
2. Neck/Mid/Bridge (coil tapped) in series- both tones
3. Mid/Bridge (coil tap) phased, parallel.- Both tones
4. Mid/Bridge (coil tap) not phased, parallel.- Both Tones
5. Bridge (Coil Tapped)- Bridge Tone.

If you could help and maybe scetch, point me towards, a schematic that would be very helpful. I do have a spare Push Pull tone pot which I could use for the phase/ tap operation if nescessary.

Any help would be massively apprecitated!

Rich

[ChrisK]

Some clarification is needed.

Switch Up (fairly standard)
1. Neck - Neck/Mid Tone Pot.
2. Neck and Mid in Parallel- Neck/Mid Tone Pot.

3. Neck alone- Neck/Mid Tone Pot.

Do you mean middle alone?

4. Mid to Series Bridge HB in parallel- Neck/Mid Tone and Bridge Tone.

Why do you want both tones here? It's a super switch (4P5T).

5. Series Bridge -Bridge Tone

Switch Down (a bit more unusual)
1. Neck/Mid in Series- Neck/Mid Tone

2. Neck/Mid/Bridge (coil tapped) in series- both tones

Why do you want both tones here (I assume that these are in parallel)?

3. Mid/Bridge (coil tap) phased, parallel.- Both tones

Any two or more pickups are phased. Is this in-phase (the individual pickup output signals add) or out-of phase (the individual pickup output signals subtract)? Why do you want both tones here

4. Mid/Bridge (coil tap) not phased, parallel.- Both Tones

Is this the Parallel out-of-Phase (PooP - it can sound like this). Why do you want both tones here?

5. Bridge (Coil Tapped)- Bridge Tone.

Are these tone controls sharing a common tone capacitor?

[newey]

Ditch-

Hello and welcome!

I don't have a schematic or diagram to do exactly what you propose. I'll have to hunt around a bit in the basement here to see what we've got that may come close.

This should be doable, though.

A couple of points. First, when I began reading your post, I was thinking you were going to be switching tone controls from one pickup to another, since you listed the operable tone controls at each switch position. But no switching occurs in your desired scheme; you just want a mid/neck tone control and a bridge tone control, each operates when the respective pickups are operating.

You don't need to think of the tone controls when discussing your switching. They will be separate "modules" in the final plan, but for now, we can mentally put them aside.

Now, for the inevitable questions:

Did you really mean that you wanted the neck alone at position 3 with the switch up? Or was that a typo, did you mean mid only? I can't imagine why you would want 2 neck only positions . . .

If you mean "mid" for position 3, then it isn't just "fairly standard", it is std Strat HSS switching.

Second, with the switch down, does the order of the choices matter?

Third, when you say "phased" you mean "out of phase", and when you say "not phased" you mean "in phase", correct?

To simplify your list a bit (and assuming the duplication of the neck positions was a typo), you desire:

Switch Up: Std Strat HSS positions

Switch down:

5) N*M
4) N*M*B(one coil)
3) M+B(one coil), OOP
2) M+B(one coil)
1) B (one coil)

Correct?

Help will be along, let me think on this some . . .

EDIT: Ok, I see ChrisK beat me to the post. We mostly have the same questions.

EDIT 2: ChrisK does raise a good point about the tone controls which didn't occur to me. With pickups in series, and both tone controls active, there will be interaction between the tone controls if they are wired in parallel.

It might make some sense, as you suggest, to use a push/pull pot to put the bridge pup OOP with the others. This would then, logically, be used as the bridge tone. You would also have the option for the bridge OOP with the neck as well, in position with all pups on.

[ditch]

Thanks guys, and thanks for the questions so quickly!

First, yes it was a typo, I did mean mid only for pos 3.

The order with the switch down really doesn't matter.


I think it might be an idea to make the phase (yes, I did mean Out of Phase) using the pull switch, it it simplifies overall. Instead, I could change the switch down pos 3 to M*B (one coil). So I have: -


Switch Up: Std Strat HSS positions

Switch down:

5) N*M
4) N*M*B(one coil)
3) M*B(one coil)
2) M+B(one coil)
1) B (one coil)

As for the tone pot issue, this I have to place myself into your hands about. Any suggetions?
The basic wish is to be able to put a Fender TBX tone in for the Neck and Mid Pickups allowing clean/crunch tone diversity, thena standard tone for the rear.

I would happily put an individual tone- 1 for neck and 1 for mid, leaving the the bridge tone free if this makes things easier. I rarely use a tone on the bridge.

Finally, would this be easier to achieve if I used 4 ON/OFF/ON DPDT switches, switching each 'coil' (handling the HB as 2 single) coilsbetween ON, Off and out off phase, then going through a similar ON/ON switch (on push pull tone knobs perhaps) handling paralell/ Series part of the equation. I am having a custom pickguard amde so anything is possible switch wise? Sorry to confuse things, just and occurence that, hmm, occured to me.

Ditch

[newey]

The basic wish is to be able to put a Fender TBX tone in for the Neck and Mid Pickups allowing clean/crunch tone diversity, thena standard tone for the rear.

I'm unsure of the extent to which a TBX control gives "clean/crunch diversity"; it supposedly give you a bass cut in one direction and a treble cut in the other. I've never used one, but others who have around here were distinctly underwhelmed.

Funny, I was going to suggest the use of a dual-gang pot to avoid the problem ChrisK suggested with the series combos. The TBX is a dual-gang pot, but one of a specialized type with a center detent.

You could use a TBX tone in this way, to give neck tone in one direction and mid tone in the other. But you wouldn't have the regular TBX operation.

[ditch]

J just ment it as I tned to use my mid and neck positions more in Clean, Crunch situations than distorted, not that the pot would do the clean/ crunch for me. But the diea of using a double ganger for the 2 tones is a brilliant idea!

[newey]

But the diea of using a double ganger for the 2 tones is a brilliant idea!

It's not original. Our long-time member JohnH discusses the use of a double-ganged tone pot in his thread on a Strat with 2 Volumes where he was using it to avoid the interaction of 2 volume pots with a master tone pot.

I plan on incorporating one on my next build for that reason as well- I want 2 volumes for blending purposes.

If you page down through the thread JohnH has there, he has a third design with phasing, coil split and series which does just about everything you want. This is with 2 volumes instead of 2 tones, but the ideas there might be a starting point for your scheme.

[ChrisK]

A TBX control gives you a treble cut in one direction (CCW) and a treble "enhancement" (thru reduced resistive loading on the pickup) in the other (CW). The treble enhancement is _subtle.

The TBX is a dual-gang pot, but one of a specialized type with a center detent.

You could use a TBX tone in this way, to give neck tone in one direction and mid tone in the other. But you wouldn't have the regular TBX operation.

Unfortunately, the TBX is only 1 1/2 of a true dual-gang pot. One audio taper element goes from 250K at '5" down to 0 at full CCW, but is out of circuit from ""5+" to full CW.

The other element is a 1 M Ohm pot if I recall. It's usually used with a cap (well, yeah) and a fixed resistor, but there is much discussion a'web regarding the best values.


Now, the pickup combinations that you are asking about are similar to the following designs;

Mike Richardson wiring with phase. This uses a DPDT switch for mode selection.

This is a variation of the Mike Richardson scheme. It used a 4PDT (like the S-1).
The Ultimate Utah Switching Schematic

Here's some of my variations on the S-1-like modes, but using only a DPDT and a standard Fender 5 position switch.
3 Single Coils and The "S-None Switch"

[ditch]

That is very probably absolutely what I'm looking for- better even. And I can avoid the S1 and the Super stich with offer far too many options for my poor little movice mind to cope with! Double Throws and normal 5 way switch is the way to go.

Cheers Newey!

[ChrisK]

bump

[ditch]

I do like this one

I suppose I'd simply 2 DPDT switch's to the bridge to add the coil tap and phase? I can easily do this with push/ pull.

I quite like the idea of 2 Volumes and a stacked tone (or a stacked volume and 2 Tones) to create mixes between Neck/Mid and Bridge pickups like the 2 volume strat plus diagram. Is that possible using the above wiring? Would I just add a volume pot between the Bridge pickup and the volume pot shown in the schematic?

[ChrisK]

I like a tone circuit directly across the bridge pickup and one directly across the neck pickup.

This way, they can be used to make the series combo brighter go figure, well, if you ask I'll tell you).

I do it here; Mike Richardson wiring with phase. This uses a DPDT switch for mode selection. It does B+N in the middle position, which I prefer over middle only.

It's in the The Padouk Caster

[ditch]

I keep getting so many options. Wow guys thanks a lot!

Just one question before I plow on. I really like Mike Richardson Wiring with Phase as it makes my guitar amazingly optional using standard push pull pots and not having to worry about an S1 which is both more expensive and, from what I hear, a little unreliable. Also, I never use Mid alone that swapping this for Bridge/ Neck makes sense.

One, hopefully last, question. I am assuming I could simply add a DPDT switch between my Bridge HB and the B/Phase circuit on the diagram to add coil selection to the layout. Then I would have, potentially, 50 Tone selections to choose from over all and could forgo the split volumes as I'll have plenty of options as it is!

Again, thanks for all your help. If that will work fine, then I think you've all answered my question admirably.


Cheers!

Ditch

[newey]

I am assuming I could simply add a DPDT switch between my Bridge HB and the B/Phase circuit on the diagram to add coil selection to the layout.

Sure. That's exactly what JohnH's diagram does, and you can drop that module into the MR w/ phase diagram easily.

Pay attention to which coil you split from the HB; one will be hum-canceling with the mid, the other with the neck.

[ditch]

Sorry, one last silly question. Is the coil tap in John Hewitt's diagram a DPDT on-on-on allowing either coil to be selected?- if not is this possible?

[JohnH]

Hi Ditch - that DPDT could indeed be an on-on-on, and you could use it for series/single coil/parallel, or one coil / both coils/other coil. As drawn, the switch does the latter, based on Di marzio colour codes. Electrically, this switch is an independednt module, so you can wire it up according to any suitable diagram, then take the output to the rest of whichever circuit you choose.

cheers

John

[ditch]

Aug 3, 2009 22:34:52 GMT -5 JohnH said:

Hi Ditch - that DPDT could indeed be an on-on-on, and you could use it for series/single coil/parallel, or one coil / both coils/other coil. As drawn, the switch does the latter, based on Di marzio colour codes. Electrically, this switch is an independednt module, so you can wire it up according to any suitable diagram, then take the output to the rest of whichever circuit you choose.

cheers

John

Thanks John! that's brilliant. Right, first I need to sort out my body and neck then I'll get on with the elctronics. I'll let you know how I go.

Thanks for all the help- again!

Rich