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Post by ijustwannastrat on Aug 18, 2009 21:28:49 GMT -5
I was wondering if anybody knew how to get the amazing dye finishes like warmoth does on their multi-colored bodies. Colors of theirs such as "Washed Blue", "Washed Black", and pretty much any PRS guitar. I think I saw a video of this guy dyeing a plain block of wood yellow and green, but being the interweb fool that I am, I remembered the URL rather than added it to favorites, and I happened to forget it. If anybody knows the video, want to share? If not, and you know how to do what I'm talking about, want to share?
Lol, BTW, sorry for using your forum as much as I have. I'd like to eventually become a full-fledged Guitar Nut, but I have much learning to do until that day.
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Post by newey on Aug 18, 2009 21:56:29 GMT -5
Yeah, we feel so . . . so . . .used.  As far as dye jobs, how about the new Gibson SG Zoot Suit?  I don't have any specific knowledge of how this is done, by Warmoth, PRS or anyone else. But one can buy any number of colors of wood dye, and presumably following the directions should give decent results. You'll need to make sure that whatever you use to finish over top of the dye is compatible with it. So test first. In furniture making, floor finishing, and so forth, the process is called "pickling" wood or a "pickled finish". Try Googling those and see what you get. I did a trans green finish on an Ibanez a while back. I just bought a clear wood stain, oil based, and got some green colorant which Home Depot dutifully mixed in for me. It came out pretty good, applied with a rag and the excess wiped off (use rubber gloves for this!). Then clear coated over the top of it. You can vary the amount of coloration you get by how many coats you apply and how quickly/vigorously you wipe it down after application. Since the stain needs to be applied on bare wood, it took a lot of finish coats to get it smooth. Next time, I'm going to try a coat of sanding sealer after the dye but before the finish coats. Although that's just a guess, not sure that'll actually work. |
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Post by ijustwannastrat on Aug 19, 2009 13:31:12 GMT -5
While the Zoot-Suit is a very handsome guitar, it's not what I'm looking at. I'm talking about when a certain grain density has one color, and the rest is another color. I thought the video I saw said something about applying a color, such as white, to raise the grain, sanding, and applying the second color. I just don't want to buy $50 worth of wood dye and ATTEMPT to find figured maple scraps to test out a POSSIBLE solution.
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Post by sumgai on Aug 19, 2009 18:56:10 GMT -5
wannabe,
Awhile ago, Cynical1 posted a nice link to a demonstration of what you're asking for. Sadly, my search-fu has gotten quite weak of late. Perhaps C1 hisownself will bless us with a link to that link, or perhaps just the raw link itself......
sumgai
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Post by cynical1 on Aug 21, 2009 23:38:42 GMT -5
Sadly, my search-fu is weak...and with the dead computer all my old bookmarks are still buried under the ash... If you can give me a good idea, or an example of what you're trying to do I may be able to get on the right track... Some good examples can be found at Roxy Guitar Finishes. There are many others that do excellent work, but these guys have the best pictures... One of the best tricks on a quilted wood is the final color over black. This is the only time I'll use a water based dye. Long story short, you take the black dye and mix it thin. You apply evenly let it soak for a very short time and then wipe. The water will raise the grain in the wood. After it dries you light sand the dye away exposing lighter areas where the grain rose. Then you apply your color. It'll give you the deep 3D look, very similar to this:  Happy Trails Cynical One |
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Post by ijustwannastrat on Aug 23, 2009 12:57:12 GMT -5
Yea cynical, that's sort of what I'm looking at. When you say soak the wood in dye, what exactly do you mean? How much dye? How long?
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Post by sumgai on Aug 23, 2009 15:40:30 GMT -5
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Post by ijustwannastrat on Aug 24, 2009 7:32:28 GMT -5
going off of all these awesome painting/staining techniques the communuty has shown me, I may have to do 3-4 more warmoth/USCG guitars (I want to see who has better service all around). The dip is cool, and I didn't think it would work from seeing the tutorial on that website. Also cynical1, is it possible to do that type of black undercoat dyeing technique with a white instead? I don't know where you would get a white wood dye, but I'm sure it's out there, if not, I have plenty of clorox.
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Post by cynical1 on Aug 24, 2009 16:58:28 GMT -5
Yea cynical, that's sort of what I'm looking at. When you say soak the wood in dye, what exactly do you mean? How much dye? How long? You're actually not soaking the wood...I guess I should clarify this one. Instead of the normal solvent\dye mixture, you use a water based wood dye. You mix it as you normally would per the instructions. I go a little lighter, ergo more water, but it doesn't make a tremendous amount of difference. You apply the wood dye as you normally would, you just wipe it sooner. Two coats can be applied, depending on your top color. The water based dye will raise the grain on your wood. You go back over, after it's dried accordingly, and light sand with a 400 grit paper. All you're looking to do is smooth out the high spots and remove a bit of color from those high spots as well. The black is just applied before your final color to add more of a 3D effect. The black dye will settle in the lower more porous sections. When you apply your final color (use a solvent based dye here or you'll raise the grain again...not what you want to do) over the black dye it makes the grain pattern jump out because there's more contrast in the finish. Once the clear goes over it's even more pronounced. Different woods react differently to this process. Quilted and birdseye maple react the best to this, but fiddle back satinwood takes it pretty well too. Happy Trails Cynical One |
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Post by ijustwannastrat on Aug 24, 2009 19:02:23 GMT -5
"Wipe" the stain? I've been rubbing it on with a rag, then letting it dry. I was told by my uncle for a solid color, raise the grain with the dye, let it dry, sand, then redye it. I guess the only thing that is confusing me about your instructions is the "wipe" part.
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Post by JaegerGuitarFinish on Oct 13, 2009 1:52:26 GMT -5
Cynical,
Thanks for the nice words about my company.
Roxy Guitar Finish.
I know exactly how warmoth does their dye work. I used to work there for many years. I used to dye a lot of the guitars you are talking about. I don't think they would like it very much if I were to tell everyone how to do their dye work. What I can and will say is it takes a long time to get what you are looking at. We use water based dyes and a lot the dye bodies are multiple dye colors exclusively mixed in house. Or its multiple colors one of the top of the other. The dye is expensive and with out knowing the exact colors they use. It is very hard to reproduce the effect.
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Post by newey on Oct 13, 2009 6:14:12 GMT -5
jimjaeger-
Hello and welcome!
While we certainly don't want anyone to tell any trade secrets, your website shows some beautiful guitars, and we get quite a few refinishing questions.
So stick around!
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Post by cynical1 on Oct 13, 2009 10:31:19 GMT -5
Thanks for the nice words about my company. Roxy Guitar Finish. Not a problem. From what I've seen and read about your company it's well deserved. And as newey says, please stick around. We really could use a finishing guru around here. My knowledge is old and CRS sets in on occasion. And I agree, wood dye is a bit expensive for trial and error. The results can be stunning if done properly...they're even acceptable is you shank it a bit... Thanks for stopping by and please don't be a stranger. Happy Trails Cynical One |
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Post by JaegerGuitarFinish on Oct 17, 2009 1:47:26 GMT -5
The biggest thing with dye work is just experience. It takes a while to figure out what the wood will do with the dye. One thing I like to do is get a scrap of wood that looks similar to the one you're working with and play with that piece first. I do this a lot. I also personally stay away from alcohol dyes. But that is just my own personal taste.
Also I don't know for sure but that Gibson SG looks kinda like some gun stocks do with the multi laminate. But that is just my opinion.
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