Is it worth upgrading a Squier affinity strat?

[VOLT]

Im talking about a total upgrade... tuners, bridge, pickups, wiring, pickguard, etc.... in the end, will it sound as good as/ better than a fender MIA strat?

and btw... what kind of wood are affinity strats made with?

[sumgai]

volt,

Nope.

Plywood. Which goes to why it won't sound as good, no matter what you do in Q. #1.

But it's a good, and cheap, learning experience.



sumgai

[sydsbluesky]

Plywood... ugh.
This goes back to the whole "materials vs. craftsmanship" thing...
Sadly, a squier affinity has neither one nor the other.

But DO keep in mind, that Plywood isn't a four letter word. (Danelectro, anyone?) There are all kinds of opinions out there on plywood guitars. Keep an open mind, and see for yourself. Tonewoods are just like pickups.

Listen with your ears, not your assumptions.


There are plenty of cheap guitars out there that can be upgraded and sound great. I look for the quality of the neck above all else. Everything else can be upgraded, to a point.

My co-worker has a friend with a Honda Civic that makes 420 horsepower. To the wheels, not the block.

But would that stop him from driving a Ferrari?

www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/FerrariCrash4.jpg

Maybe that one.

But in all seriousness, MIM fenders aren't very much, but you're still gonna have to upgrade them, in my book. MIA fenders are expensive... and you may still end up wanting to upgrade them!

If you like the affinity that much, then go nutz. You'll be glad you did... and you can always strip it and use it as well seasoned firewood (careful with the smoke from the glue!)

[newey]

the smoke from the glue!

That's the fun part . . . ;D

Seriously, SG is right, if your goal is to have it sound as good as a MIM Strat. you're probably setting yourself up for failure.

If you approach it with the idea that it's a cheap guitar that you want to make better, that you can achieve.

And there's no sense in buying the best of the best, or before you know it, you'll have spent enough that you could have bought the MIM Strat to begin with.

What you can do are the following things, in the order that I would spend the $$ to get the most bang for your buck:

1) Professional fret dressing, set-up, and fresh strings. Unless you are very good at these things, take it to a good tech. This is always the single best thing to do for a cheap guitar; if the playability is poor, you won't play it and all the other mods will go for naught. Spend the money to get it done right!

2) Better pickups. Not $200 a set ones, but $40-$50 a set.

3) Better tuners. Tuning stability is also important, see #1 above.

4) Upgraded bridge. Wilkinson makes a decent one for about $30-$35 that's better than the stock one.

5) Wiring/switching mods of your choice.

If you elected to do #3 and #4 above, save doing #1 until afterward, obviously.

[ChrisK]

Fender MIA Strat currently sell for over $1,000.

Squier anythings do not.



If plywood bodies were nirvana, custom shops would use them exclusively; they do not.

No matter what you put in a Squier, it's still a Squier and likely won't sell for even what you paid for it.


A VW Beetle with a Rolls Royce hood ornament is still a VW Beetle.

[newey]

No matter what you put in a Squier, it's still a Squier and likely won't sell for even what you paid for it.

Unless it's some sort of vintage collectible, no guitar is likely to sell for what you paid for it; it's a used guitar.

And modding any guitar is not likely to add more than the cost of the mod to the value.

I mod my guitars because I enjoy doing it, and because I enjoy playing them, not because I expect I'll ever make any money on the deal.

Spending a few thousand dollars to have one's house recarpeted won't add that few thousand back into the value of the house. But it will allow one to live in a house with new carpeting.

[ccso8462]

Fortunately, not all Squiers are plywood bodies, but none are really good tone wood. I just finished an upgrade on a Squier Strat, and I'm pretty happy with the outcome. It is definitely not worth anything to anyone but me, but I learned a lot and have a decent sounding guitar that plays fairly well. MF had locking tuners on sale, so it got those, 2 months later they had Tex-Mex pups on sale, so it got those, too. The neck is adequate, so I just sanded off the Squier logo and replaced it with our band's logo. It got a full shielding job with copper tape which quieted it down considerably. I also shielded the individual pups.
It's still a $100 guitar, but sounds much better than that. I think a lot depends on how much cash you want to blow, and what you are expecting. I just needed a Strat sound, since my MIM Tele couldn't supply exactly the tone I was after on a few numbers, and I was willing to spend a little money that I knew I would never recoup. I have more in upgrade parts than I spent on the axe in the first place.
However, if you have the cash, GO FOR IT! You'll learn a lot and it's always fun to experiment, just don't expect it to match a MIA Fender. ;D
And of course if I ever pick up a MIM Strat, all the upgrade parts will get yanked out of the squier and put in the MIM. The squier will then be dummied up and hung on the wall over the fireplace.

[sydsbluesky]

The other normal wood is agathis, I think, but the affinity is plywood to the very best of my understanding.

For the price of a fret dress... hrmm. That's more money that the guitar is worth already. That's why the neck is the most important thing to inspect on any guitar that one is buying, in my view.




Call me the Devil's Advocate.

Let's take a look at plywood bodies, for a moment...

The path that the "tone" takes is a fun one to break down for this purpose.

1. Player. Fingers come first. This is the single most important piece of the tone (taken in its totality in an entire song, not just strumming an E chord... and we play songs on these things, not just E chords.)
2. Strings. Very high up on the list, as everyone knows
3. From there, it hits the nut, the saddles, and to a small degree the fingerboards. The nut takes it back down through the neck also, and the saddle, depending on the type of bridge, either takes it down into the wood via some posts, OR in this case, down into a big chunk of mystery metal.
4. From there, the mystery metal hands the "tone" off to the wood via 6 screws and 3 or 4 springs.
5. The "tone" hits the body. On one side, from the neck, via four screws, and from the other, from the bridge.

That's the unplugged sound. As far as plugged, I'm hesitant to predict that the plywood would have any more of a difference than agathis, or some other cheap, solid wood.

If it came down to tonewood and paint... I'm not sure if anyone could really prove which has more of a difference. Especially plugged in.

The most important pieces of the tone are probably the player followed closely by strings and amp... then pickups. These are things anyone can A/B test. I'm wondering how many people have done A/B testing with plywood vs. ash/poplar/mahagony/basswood/agathis.

Hate to take it off topic, but I don't like seeing plywood bashed like that, even if it is just plywood... and even if it is probably true!


p.s. That having been said, I also say that ccso hits the nail square on the head with that. Couldn't agree more.

[cynical1]

I tend to agree with you in that plywood gets an undo bad rap...much like the more exotic tonewoods get a disproportionate good rap.

Project #1 is a plywood body routed out with pieces of alder along the back, neck pocket and where the bridge mounts. It has satinwood veneer on the back and pimento burl wood veneer on the front. After the stain was applied I brushed some minwax wood hardener over the entire body. It will next get paint and poly clear.

My point is, once the guitar is finished I will receive more comments on the tonal qualities of satinwood and pimento wood then I will about how it sounds like plywood.

I know this as I've put maple veneers (fiddleback and birdseye) on a poplar body in the past and heard nothing but how bright it was because it was made of maple...no one even questioned the weight of the finished guitar...

The previous point of your fingers and your style effecting the tone more then tonewood is a very valid one. Tight fits, precision assembly and quality components can make all the difference.

Strip your old Dean's and see how many turn out to be plywood.

Soapbox returned to upright and locked position.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[JohnH]

I think that if the Squire plays well, ie neck is straight, and intonation can be set adequately, then its a great project but dont spend too much.

Id take a plywood construction over a cheap light solid wood. Its consistent and has some density to it. My plywood Hondo Strat was a nice heavy solid axe.

John

[VOLT]

ok... ty for all the replies....
now.... if i were to upgrade components one by one, which shud i do first?.....
i dont really need better tuners since i dont use the trem(ill probably upgrade the tuners last).. ive put in all 5 springs and have screwed in the claw.. it stays in tune pretty well....

ITS BETWEEN THESE 2 COMPONENTS THAT I NEED HELP ON CHOOSING....PICKUPS OR BRIDGE?
i have these gfs overwound pups in mind (the $60 set... if anyone has any experience w/ them plz mention ur opinions....)

now to the bridge.... a better bridge can help increase sustain... but comparatively how much more? strats are not known for their sustain....(thats what les pauls are for!)... so if there will not be much of an increase i would probably upgrade the pups first....

With regard to tone- how much better would an upgraded bridge make the guitar sound

[newey]

With regard to tone- how much better

"Better tone" is a subjective value statement. You could go out and buy a more expensive bridge (or pickups, for that matter), and decide that you like the original ones . . . better.

At #3 above, I gave you my take- pickups first.

[sydsbluesky]

I'd go pickups first as well.

It'll be hard to get pups that are any worse than stock squires, so fire away!

[VOLT]

k thx....i know these were stupid questions... but i just wanted to make sure
when in doubt, run to guitar nuts 2 XD

[sydsbluesky]

We're always happy to help!

Just be sure to let us know how it goes. I know plenty of guys on this forum have used GFS pickups and been perfectly happy with the results (and price) of them.

Jesse

[JohnH]

I got a GFS vintage alnico set. I was very pleased with them, and with the quick service from GFS. They were fairly low output, which I suppose it what I asked for, so next time I think I'd go a bit hotter. They sounded very good and great value, and a reasonable upgrade for your Squire.

[peskypesky]

I have several Squiers, including an Affinity Tele, and they're all very good guitars. Once they are set up properly, they can play very nicely and sound sweet. If you do some upgrades, especially the pickups and nut, you can make them even better.

But unless you're a pro, you don't really have to do any mods to the stock Squiers IMO.

[Teleblooz]

Sept 15, 2009 17:38:46 GMT -5 VOLT said:

i have these gfs overwound pups in mind (the $60 set... if anyone has any experience w/ them plz mention ur opinions....)

As it happens, I put exactly those GFS pickups into an Affinity Strat I had, and I really like them - they give me exactly the sound I expect from a Strat. I used to gig it as my backup guitar.

I liked them so well in fact, that I bought another set for a project Strat I recently built (only used the neck & middle, but the set was cheap and i wanted an HSS configuration). Again, I'm very happy with the sound. And yeah, it's plywood. As c1 said, I defy anyone to prove they can tell the difference sight unseen.

Can't help you with the bridge question. I either screw it down tight (the Affinity), or use a hardtail bridge (the project). Could never bond with a whammy bar, even though I've had a few.

[sydsbluesky]

Sept 27, 2009 0:13:21 GMT -5 Teleblooz said:

. . . And yeah, it's plywood. As c1 said, I defy anyone to prove they can tell the difference sight unseen. . .

Seconded.

[newey]

I defy anyone to prove they can tell the difference sight unseen. . .

Or, perhaps, ears unheard

I always get a chuckle out of the guy with the new guitar that he's bragging on, made of Whatsiswood and having the tonal properties of blah, blah, blah. . .

As I'm tuning him out, I invariably look "down his cord", so to speak, to see just how his magical tone is being compressed, flanged, wah'd and variously squished and squashed, before going into a stack amp, through a mike, into a PA board. . .

Yeah, it's all about the tonewood!

But hey, I'm biased, I like Resophonic bodied guitars.

[sydsbluesky]

Tonewood is a big, fat lie!

Want proof?




Marshall doesn't use it! haha

[sumgai]

Oct 6, 2009 21:49:48 GMT -5 sydsbluesky said:

Tonewood is a big, fat lie!

Uh, oh! Now you've done it!! We'll all be lucky to find the NutzHouse still standing, if Runewalker gets wind of that one!

[KIIMH]

Oct 7, 2009 2:00:19 GMT -5 sumgai said:

Oct 6, 2009 21:49:48 GMT -5 sydsbluesky said:

Tonewood is a big, fat lie!

Uh, oh! Now you've done it!! We'll all be lucky to find the NutzHouse still standing, if Runewalker gets wind of that one!

nough yo'uve done iT!

waht did he doen?

kyel

I mena maroonwooker or waht sumgia sead

[D2o]

Oh, kyle! ... maroonwokker! (note: kyle is in my head had changed his username to "maroonwokker" for a minute, this is absolutely not intended to be insulting to Runewalker)... whatever - kyle really is in your head ... and mine.

For what it's worth, I had a Squier Affinity as a sacrificial lamb for wiring, and replaced the stock tuners with some inexpensive but good PING tuners. I found that it was a very useful improvement in terms of keeping the guitar in tune - guitars that go out of tune quickly do not inspire me to pick them up very often.

The pickups were, in my opinion, poor - weak and thin, with no character. I once had a Chinese "Academy" strat-like instrument that was actually awe-inspiring in the sense that I couldn't believe they could make something SO cheap and still have it actually function ... the pickups in that Academy were better than the Squier Affinity's.

The fit and finish on the Squier Affinity was, however, far superior to the Chinese guitar, which had frets that could double as box-cutters.

The point is that the Squier Affinity - if you can get past the fact that it is not an exotic or expensive guitar - would seem to me to be a good candidate for some slight investment into mild to moderate improvements, which could create a guitar that would be a good, useful and fun guitar to play. [/$0.02]

D2o

[cynical1]

There are several very important points brought out in this thread. First, that most of the tonewood banter is elitist, and virtually no one runs a guitar into an amp without some type of processing anymore.

Which begs the comment "It's an electrified amplified processed signal pushed through a speaker...bloodwood or pine, it's the processing and the path the SIGNAL takes that produces the tone on an electric instrument"

There, I said it....flame away...

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[D2o]

Cyn,

I think your provocative post would make Runewalker proud ... we won't worry about what maroonwokker thinks.

My previous post referred to a comparison of two pretty kyle guitars, but it is worth noting that the comparison was made using just the guitar, a patch cord and an amp.

I prefer to have some reasonable foundation to begin with - unprocessed ; which can then be processed ... if desired - as opposed to out of necessity.

Pots can be swapped, and I suppose "sustain" can be a factor (we talk about different tonewoods, and direct-mount versus springs or plastic rings), but the single biggest factor, to me, is the pickups.

If there is nothing there, there is nothing there ... and no amount of processing can change that.

D2o

[sydsbluesky]

JCM 800s turn pine into mahagony.

That's, uh, science?

Duh.



But really, though... Wood has a big spot in tone when you think of sustain. There is no sustain processor with which I've ever been pleased (main guitar = gibson LP.)

BUT the biggest addition wood can make to a guitar is, without a doubt, aesthetics... hey, I spelled it properly!

Spell check is such a crutch.

Whatever.

Of course no single person here cares what their guitar LOOKS like, right? Wait, what? THEY DO?!? I get as much wood from a cocobolo acoustic as the next guy.

So... I'm going to propose a simplification in the state of affairs in the wood debate.

Electric guitar tone - debatable! A guitar sculpted from a single piece of exotic wood and then run through Pro Tools is about as necessary as a tramp stamp on a nun. BUT if naked clean tone is your thing (guitar->amp->fan girlsaudience) it sure as hell can't hurt, right?

Eye candy - *drools*

Acoustics - Big fan of quilted maple. Wood here makes all the difference.

Does this sound like an acceptable break down of the state of affairs?



Question for Kyle! What's your favorite band?

[newey]

SBS asked:

Does this sound like an acceptable break down of the state of affairs?

Yes it does. No one is claiming that wood has no effect, only that its contribution is likely minimal in the standard way that most of us actually use solid-bodied electric guitars.

Acoustics are certainly a different story.

D2o noted:

the single biggest factor, to me, is the pickups.

I agree, and a double-blind test should prove it. Take two identical Squier Strats. The fact that all the electronics can be swapped out by changing the pickguard makes a Strat the ideal guitar for this kind of testing.

Acquire an exotic tonewood body and replace the body on one of the Strats. Get a loaded pickguard with something other than stock Squier SCs in it- rails, perhaps.

Then blindfold a panel of guitarists and play the various combinations for the panel, using the same amp and cable. The combos would be:

Stock Squier
Exotic Squier with stock pickups.
Stock Squier with alternate pickups
Exotic Squier with alternate pickups.

I'd lay money that the panel will reliably distinguish (75% of the time or better) the change between the pickups. And that they wouldn't be able to reliably distinguish the tonewood from the plywood.

Anyone want some of that action?

And as to sustain:

But really, though... Wood has a big spot in tone when you think of sustain.

Actually, I'd put it about third, behind string-thru (vs. not) and the bridge's materials & construction. This is, of course, only in reference to mechanical sustain, we're leaving the pickups, etc. out of the equation here.

This is susceptible to testing in virtually the same manner as above. One guitar is a stock Squier Strat, the other has Squire Strat hardware on an exotic body. A hard tail rear-loaded bridge would get swapped in and out so as to eliminate the string-through effect, and the different bridges will probably make a difference as well.

One could also test other potential variables as well- trem springs vs not, or nut material.

And here, in addition to a blindfolded panel, one could graph the resulting sustain and compare the plottings.

I don't know if anyone has actually done this or not. But I suspect that companies in the business of selling you an expensive guitar body would have posted any favorable research on their websites.

Q.E.D.

EDIT:AND:

Question for Kyle! What's your favorite band?

A: Gorillaz

;D ;D ;D

[ijustwannastrat]

Please, somebody make an oak guitar, or a ply-wood guitar. I personally believe that if it is made with good craftsmanship, that it will preform at the same level as a tonewood guitar. I've heard of these acoustic guitars made from old skids, and I've only heard good sound come out of them.

If anybody disagrees with me, listen to a Queen album, and attempt to argue that Brian May has bad tone.

[sydsbluesky]

Couldn't agree more, dood.

Except on Kyle.
I'm willing to bet The Scorpions are in his top three.