Stripped Out Screw Holes - Help

[rabidgerry]

Is it me or does stripped out screw holes be a pain in the butt?

Well I have a number of worn screw holes on a couple of my axes from constantly doing stuff and I was wondering what are the best fixes?

For example, at the moment I'm having difficulty with string trees on my squire, they are loose because I can no long screw them down tight anymore and I'm was planning on getting newer types to replace them with but there is no point getting new ones when I can't bloody tighten those that are there alread.

Its not possible to use larger screws as some people suggest to me.

I also have a few holes on my pick gaurd that are worn and the screws just slide in there now. These also need a cure.

Please please help guys!!! As I occassionally will find a new worn screw hole (i.e like a did a month ago on my flying v) from time to time and be defenceless against it.

I now never screw into wood really tight to prevent this from happening too often again.

All suggestions welcome.......so longs they work!! ;D

Thanks

[D2o]

rg,

Every time you prepare to put a screw back in, get in the habit of first doing a reverse half twist of the screwdriver before you start to actually screw the screw in. It helps to ensure that the screw drops into the existing thread so you can avoid the cross threading that enlarges the holes.

Your idea of not overtightening is good. I usually let just the weight of the screwdriver do the work, and tighten only until the screwdriver begins to slips out of the screw i.e. it slips the slot when there is no pressure on the tool. My wife is undecided about this method, but it works well with Phillip's head anyway.

As for fixing: a toothpick, some white carpenter's glue and 24 hours to let the glue dry will fix it every time.

Cheers,
D2o

[sumgai]

gerry,

Tight or loose, screw holes will eventually loosen up, if you keep turning the screw in and out, as you do your mods (or whatever).

My preferred fix is to use a toothpick and some wood glue. Over here we have "Elmer's", a well-known household brand name, but there are many others. Some call it, generically, a "milk" glue (it's white and flows almost as smoothly), but any old wood glue will be fine.

Take one toothpick and ladle some glue into the hole. You don't need to fill the hole with glue, just get some small amount in there. Then stick in and break off flush as many toothpicks as will fit into the hole. Some of the glue may come back out, that's OK of course - clean it up now.

Tiny holes like for the string tree may need only one 'pick, others may need more, it's all according to what you see as you do the work.

Let it all dry for awhile and then reassemble your axe. I usually have time to let it dry overnight, like is says on the tin, but I've done it for customers with just a few hours of drying time, and never had any problems afterwards.

The "proper" fix is of course to drill the hole straight, insert a proper-sized dowel, and mark it for trimming. Pull it out, cut it off, coat it with glue, and put it back in. Clean up the excess glue and let it sit overnight. The down side is, you'll have to drill a new hole, you can't depend on the screw to do it for you, 'cause it will go off-center every time.

HTH




sumgai

[D2o]

Another pearl of wisdom from Chrisk:

Aug 3, 2007 17:47:28 GMT -5 ChrisK said:

What I do on all screws that go into any soft material (wood, plastic, etc.) is to turn the screw slowly backwards at first to ensure that the threads on the screw "find" the threads in the soft material.

You know when you've "found" the thread when the screw drops a thread spacing into the material.

Then (and only then) do I turn it into the material.

This has worked for me for decades in preventing the cutting of new threads, which is what eventually destroys threads and enlarges the holes.

A big part of this practice is to use a hex-based, tight fitting interchangeable screwdriver bit and not an entire screwdriver while "finding". This most helpful on Phillips and crosspoint screw heads.


I've found that in harder woods such as maple and alder that this practice is easy to do. In softer woods such as mahogany and basswood it's harder to find the existing thread, but very important to do so.


There are threaded inserts available that use machine screws. I've seen them for refitting a guitar for easy neck removal and breakdown for travel. I don't know who sells them into the musical industry, but here's a link to an industrial supplier.

www.mcmaster.com

Search for threaded inserts



I have no idea about sources other than them.


Or, when the holes eventually get stripped, drill them deeper and just use longer screws!

(These work better for me since I can find the thread with the screw and just my fingers, where the shorter screws require a screwdriver bit as well.)

[/size]

[rabidgerry]

Wow guys thats that question done and dusted!!

I have a million little holes all around one my strats that need this fix, and 1 on my flying V.

I'm even confident enough to do the whole dowel fix to should I ever need to. In fact a guitar repair guy used two house hold screws intead of the the proper trem claw screws to screw in the trem claw at the back of my guitar because the holes had lost their threads, so I'm keen to try the toothpicks on these and see if I can put the original screws back in.

Also on the same guitar the 6 pivot mounting screws on the trem are shot too so I wanna sort them as well. Pick gaurd holes and backplate are less important but they need sorted also and then last but not least the dam string strees!! Pretty much all of em on that strat!!

[chuck]

you should try the machine screw inserts in the neck .... they are much better than the stock wood screws .

i installed them in my Strat neck because i figured i would have the neck off and on about a gazillion times

[hbom]

If you have pickguard screw holes that are wallowd out,
Take the guard off of the guitar and lay it flat on a board that has been covered in tin foil.
Mix enough 2 part epoxy glue to fill each hole that is too large. If you want to you can tint the glue to match the PG, but unless the hole is really wow'd a lot, clear should be fine.
Strike it off flat on the top of the guard.And Wipe any excess glue from the top and set a side to dry.
After it is completly dry, peel it away from the foil and scrape any excess off of the back. Sand to get it flat.
Now center drill w/#4 drill bit and follow with a small 45 degree dremel cutter deep enough to counter seat the screw head.
Works for me anyway.

[lynxpilot]

+1 on threaded inserts. I'd use them on a new build much less a repair. Wood screws are hit and miss and for all intents and purposes meant for one time's use. Machine screws are for repeated assembly and disassembly, fit an exact format, are easier to control torque, and can have a better appearance.

[morbe]

You know tooth pick is the great idea but just to add my two cents, I prefer wood glue to all the other epoxies mentioned in this thread. Also for home repairs and projects (though TOO big for most guitar parts). Some times I drill a the size of a golf tee and stick in a wood golf tee with some wood glue allow drying time cut and sand flush, and you have true surface to re drill or rescrew.

[cynical1]

Wood golf tees are usually cedar. Not the hardest wood out there. The glue is probably harder once it cures.

I've taken oak wood scrap and whittled long strips then stuffed and glued them into stripped holes.

HTC1

[Yew]

The Toothpick/Matchstick and Glue method seems the best to me

[cynical1]

Jan 8, 2011 8:46:07 GMT -5 Yew said:

The Toothpick/Matchstick and Glue method seems the best to me

And the whittled oak strip are the same thing. I use oak for a very simple reason. If the screw stripped out of maple, ash or rosewood, how long do you suppose the soft wood of the toothpick or matchstick is going to hold that screw?

HTC1

[JFrankParnell]

hmm, cleaning out the kitchen drawer, just now, I find a stash of thick shishkabobers made of bamboo. Wood this be good? with glue and all.

[cynical1]

Again, you can use toothpicks, wood matches, bamboos skewers, pipe cleaners, dental floss, pieces of old matchbooks, stripped wire insulation...etc...and all of these will hold the screw better then the stripped out hole.

And again, the glue is going to be harder then any of these and that's what'll be holding your screw in place. For pickguards or truss rod covers it's fine. For anything that will experience torsional forces or frequent screwing and unscrewing it's not a good idea. It takes as long to glue in a strip of hardwood as it does a toothpick. And if you lose an eye down the road...well...I warned you...

HTC1

[rabidgerry]

Cheers c1!!

I found when I eventually did the sumgai advice I sorted my problem.

However I can say the problem I used to experience back in the day trying to fill holes was:

the material would break up i.e matchsticks or what have you.

Buy using the glue this time and pluggin the hole as tight as possible was a winner.

One thing to note...............................screwing in straight again can be a tricky, the screw can veer sideways and cause a wonkey new screw hole.

[sumgai]

Jan 11, 2011 12:08:27 GMT -5 rabidgerry said:

One thing to note...............................screwing in straight again can be a tricky, the screw can veer sideways and cause a wonkey new screw hole.

This is true, and we tend to never mention it, for some strange reason.

Now it's true that I've used the toothpick-fix more than a few times, on both my and other people's guitars, and I've always used Elmer's Wood Glue (or similar), but there were two things operating here..... a) I had to time to let the glue dry; and b) the guitar was not going to be a "mods test bed", whereby the screws were always being taken out and put back in.

In any event, when all the chips are down, there is only one true and proper fix for a stripped hole, and that is to start over. you drill out the offending hole, you plug it with a matching-diameter dowel (with glue), and you drill that dowel with a pilot hole, before you set the new screw. The pilot hole should be about 2/3rd's screw diameter, but that's not an absolute, it's just a rule of thumb. This will keep the screw from going off at a slant, as you drive it in for the first time. The beauty here is, you don't need to wait for the dowel's glue to try - you can finish the whole job and give it back to the customer, and the glue will dry well before the next time he/she/you has to take the screw out (yet again).

Caution: Don't expect the glue to fill in any gaps, as if it were as good as real wood - it won't. If the dowel isn't already a reasonably tight fit, the glue won't hold, and you'll be in even worse shape than before you started. Don't even think of trying to tell us why you'll have the time to do the job right the second time, if you didn't take the time to do it right the first time. c1 and I mean it.

HTH




sumgai

[Yew]

I might be tempted to drill the hole for the dowel 0.5MM oversized (imperial conversion please?) to allow for tolerances in dowel production

[cynical1]

SG, as always, is right. if you don't have the time to do it right, when are you gonna have the time to do it again.

Hardwood dowels are dirt cheap at any hardware or home improvement store.

As far as drilling straight, find the right bit for your screw:



And I like this attachment for a Dremel tool:



With the three collets that come with that standard Dremel tool you can accommodate just about any drill size on a guitar, and you can preset the depth so you can't drill too deep.

HTC1

[sumgai]

Jan 11, 2011 14:50:41 GMT -5 Yew said:

I might be tempted to drill the hole for the dowel 0.5MM oversized (imperial conversion please?) to allow for tolerances in dowel production

This deserves a serious answer.

That half-millimeter translates to about 0.050", or a 50 thousandths of an inch. I dunno about anyone else, but to me, that's like the Grand Canyon of gaps. It'd take a pretty healthy glue-based product to fill that kinda surrounding gap, I'm sure.

Long story short is easy - you drill your hole, and you don't care if it's just right, or undersized.... so long as it's not oversized!! Why don't you care? Come on, tenderfoot.... 'cause you can reduce the size of the replacement dowel with some light sanding, or even a bit of whittling, that's why. Sheesh. My preference is, you have to use a recoilless hammer to drive in the dowel. In such a case, you probably don't need the glue, but then again, I'm old, so I wear both suspenders and a belt. ;D


HTH





sumgai

[gfxbss]

I always drill the hole small. A touch of wood glue and a hammer to drive it into place.....

If you have access to a drill press, then use it. This will help to make sure that you are drilling perpendicular to the guitar....

My $0.02

Tyler