Brian May-series/parallel switching for SSS

[JohnH]

This a design for three single-coil pickups, with an on/off control for each one and an overall series/parallel switch. It is based here on extending the options on a Brian May ‘Red Special‘ guitar, which normally only has series wiring. As on the BM, a phase switch is provided for each pickup. These are optional.

The system can be applied to any guitar with SSS pickups.

The core of the design is the series parallel wiring, which works in series mode by putting all the pickups in a series chain, then bypassing the unused ones. Parallel works, as might be expected, by grounding one end of each pickup and connecting the others to hot, or not.

Here is the wiring diagram –



Original image URL: www.jocidapark.com.au/circuits/GN2/BMseriespara05012010.gif

On a BM guitar, the dpdt’s are slide switches (down = ‘on’), but they can also be mini-toggles in which case ‘up’ will be ‘on’

This was the discussion thread:
guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=wiring&action=display&thread=4641&page=1

For further insight, and schematics describing the basis of it, the design is based on this:
Tone Monster2 – Series and Parallel for SSS

And on Wolfs site, he has this:
SuperStrat switching mod

Also, see this from newey, which offers a different range of series/parallel sounds on a BM guitar, using one of the phase switches instead of adding a new switch:
Parallel tones from Brian May guitar

Finally, Killheart7, who built this BM design, has posted some excellent sound samples that show the difference in series/parallel switching:

series/parallel sound samples

Cheers
John

[aroberts8089]

Great stuff,

in the initial design thread you mentioned this:

May 22, 2010 16:20:25 GMT -5 JohnH said:

3. You could build my full BM design, combining the phase and on/off, but each switch is now a 4pdt on/on/on, which are the same size as the two position 4pdts (ie twice as large), and are rather expensive. Each pickup switch would have three positions, off, on out of phase, on. I'm not sure if all those wide switches will fit well in a Strat however.
cheers
John

wondering if there is a complete wiring diagram floating around here for combining the phase/on/off into the single large 4pdt switch that includes the series/para switch as well. extensive searching turned up nothing. I found Unks instruction on how to combine the on/off/pahse, but I'm not entirely clear on how to combine that with the series/para switch. I'm building a new instrument so space isn't as much of a concern and I prefer the cleaner look of fewer switches.

Any help would be appreciated,
Thanks,
Andrew

[JohnH]

Hi Andrew - Sorry i missed this post, but have seen your todays one. I believe you can take the diagram above, and combine the on/off and the phase switches into 4pdt on.on.on switches - just gotta be clever with which poles to use on those toggles, eg 1 and 3 for on/off. 2 and 4 for phase

Can discuss more later

John

[eli]

Id love to try this on my new nash tele build im working on but i have a couple questions hopefully John or someone else can help me

1- Would this work with the middle pickup being reverse wound? I haven't purchased them yet so that would be an easy fix. From my basic understanding it would be best if all 3 pickups were wound the same direction?

2- The Series Parallel switch what actual switch does that use? i couldn't find anything like it on allparts or stewmac.

3- The grounds for the pickups- This is for pickups with 2 grounds correct? 1 ground follows the diagram as a negative the other just goes to ground?

4- Would 250k pots work fine for this?  I need to use mini pots I intend to cram this into a tele control plate.

[eli]

Thank you to john for  posting this diagram its really one of the best out there amazing stuff.

[Deleted]

Oct 20, 2019 3:29:45 GMT -5 eli said:

Id love to try this on my new nash tele build im working on but i have a couple questions hopefully John or someone else can help me

1- Would this work with the middle pickup being reverse wound? I haven't purchased them yet so that would be an easy fix. From my basic understanding it would be best if all 3 pickups were wound the same direction?
>Guess i got that WRONG by the looks of Johns Comments after< Ooops sorry

2- The Series Parallel switch what actual switch does that use? i couldn't find anything like it on allparts or stewmac.

3- The grounds for the pickups- This is for pickups with 2 grounds correct? 1 ground follows the diagram as a negative the other just goes to ground?

4- Would 250k pots work fine for this?  I need to use mini pots I intend to cram this into a tele control plate.

1) the Bottom three Switches Flip the Coil of the Pickup, if you have 2-3 and 1-2 are Reversed (Out of Phase) you get a different tone.

2) 4P2T just a basic toggle switch.  Depending what you want this to go in to (case wise, holes etc) can be changed a bit.

3) Pickup has two ends + and - . If we call + HOT and - goes to Ground (or in some cases in this circuit hooked up to the next pickup to give a Humbucker fell)  

4) 250K would be ok, keen to see how this fits in the case.

[JohnH]

You can use a reverse wound middle pickup, and its a good idea, with e same hum-cancelling benefits as on a Strat, if you combine it with others in phase.


This is the usual type of switch for the series/parallel, as AB notes, its just a toggle switch.

www.jaycar.com.au/4pdt-mini-toggle-switch/p/ST0506

Another neater option would be to use a Fender S1 switch, which is a button built into a volume pot. Its a different wiring, but the same functionality and it might be neater and more compact. Would need a new diagram.


The pickups should just have two wires to the coils, like a simple single coil. The coil wires don't get directly grounded in this scheme. Instead, this is done trough the switching as required,


Id suggest to sketch out the basic size of the parts and see if they will actually fit in a tele cavity. If you are short of space, you could lose one phase switch without affecting the range of tones. And the S1 switch might save space instead of the separate 4pdt toggle.

Good luck, its a fun scheme!

[newey]

Cavity space on a Tele will be an issue. As John mentioned, an S1 switch could save some real estate. You could also, as mentioned, lose one phase switch without losing any tonal options, since all possible OOP combinations of 3 pickups requires only 2 phase switches. You could then use P/P pots on your V & T controls for the 2 phase switches to save further space. Switching these is a bit more "clunky", but if you truly want this scheme in a Tele you may have to make some sacrifices.

Oh, and Eli:

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

[eli]

Thanks for all the input!

I prefer the 7 switches over a push pull method. To me it just feels more user friendly, plus I don't have to make a new diagram. 

I found some 16mm pots which would let me fit all this in a tele control plate "still going to be a bit crammed"  also need to put the 4pdt switch sideways. I am going to route the plate today ill try to post a picture of the plate "Laser cut from ply wood". From my measurements it should fit with about 1mm between the body of each switch and enough room for the pot lugs.

In theory this wiring schematic should allow a normal "parallel in phase" sound that you would get from any basic strat or tele wiring "250k pots and a .022uf resistor" plus all the added sounds. But I am curious if all those wires and and added connection could do anything to the signal? Any thoughts on this or is it more of something we will just have to find out. If it doesn't do anything to the classic sound I find it odd that this wouldn't be the standard? Recently I played a strat with a series parallel switch, it seemed to me like it did all the original sounds "plus humbucker like tones while in series" but it was hard to tell for sure with the modern hot single coil pickups it had.

Lennon used a Ric with series paralell for each pickup

Brian may used phase switches.

Fender players less so , I believe Gilmore used a couple of series options on one of his strats i may be wrong.

James Burton has series/parallel on his tele but also used lace sensor pickups so I wouldn't consider it a fender sound.

[JohnH]

I think most players prefer simple classic wirings that they are used to. Plus, this wasn't invented in the 1960's!

There shouldn't be any particular losses with it.

[newey]

From my measurements it should fit with about 1mm between the body of each switch and enough room for the pot lugs.

Mighty close quarters. Don't forget that wires have to be soldered to the switches. And wires need a bit of room to "arc" around things, they can't really make 90° turns very well . . .

But I am curious if all those wires and and added connection could do anything to the signal? Any thoughts on this or is it more of something we will just have to find out. If it doesn't do anything to the classic sound I find it odd that this wouldn't be the standard?

All of the wires are not always in circuit at the same time- things are switched in and out. And wires, presuming they are well and truly soldered to their connections, should have only a tiny resistance. Tiny resistance means no practical real-world effect. Don't worry at all about this.

Why isn't it "standard"? Hard to say, but guitarists are notoriously conservative about their instruments. Many folks have come along with the "next great thing", but by and large, these have tanked in the marketplace, and we continue to buy Teles, LPs, Strats, etc that have changed very little in 60+ years. That is to say, with the exception of a few folks who hang around this joint and who like to tinker under the hood (errr. . . bonnet . . . ).

Also, while many of us have envisioned, and some have built, the "all-everything" axe, one that boasts of a gazillion options/variations, after doing that exercise, one finds that it is better to focus on a more limited number of option that are actually used day-to-day.

[eli]

"Mighty close quarters. Don't forget that wires have to be soldered to the switches. And wires need a bit of room to "arc" around things, they can't really make 90° turns very well . . ."

        I worry about this myself but the cavity is fairly deep so the plan is to utilize that space for wires as much as possible. Also might go for some smaller gauge or threaded wire for some extra bend.

"Also, while many of us have envisioned, and some have built, the "all-everything" axe, one that boasts of a gazillion options/variations, after doing that exercise, one finds that it is better to focus on a more limited number of option that are actually used day-to-day." 

       Cant agree with you more on this. With this recent build I really focused on the basics but whenever I had the chance to add some extra mojo without compromising the original concept it seems like a win/win.  I wanted all 3 pickups in any configuration which means a 7 way system but all of those I found use a push pull so they aren't really that user friendly, I really like the switch idea. Originally I was going to use 3 volume pots and no blade switch   Pros:Blending/Any combo     Cons: Forgetting what pickups are on/Tiny Crammed Knobs. But I decided the Brian May wiring was a better idea plus the series/parallel in this schematic seems like a may as well bonus. Lastly odd as it is switches and mini pots are much cheaper than stacked pots and 4 pole blade switches. 

[blademaster2]

Oct 22, 2019 15:49:12 GMT -5 JohnH said:

I think most players prefer simple classic wirings that they are used to. Plus, this wasn't invented in the 1960's!

There shouldn't be any particular losses with it.

LOL. Actually, reading Brian May's book tells me that this *was* invented in the 1960's by Brian and his father. Around 1963, IIRC.

I always felt that Brian's tone was a little nasal, and not so crisp for a guitar with single coil pups. This is despite his use of a treble booster in the set up. Perhaps the added inductance of the three pups in series on some settings exacerbated this loss of highs. Having never tried the Burns pups myself I cannot say much more about it.

One other factor that would dissuade me from this configuration is that the reliability of the switches plays a more influential role (the reliability prediction would be worse for this since there are more single-point-failures, any one of which results in silence from the guitar). Then again, I had a Hagstrom F12-S that used sliders that were terrible, and that might be causing me to have more negativity on this than justified - after all, it worked for Brian!

[eli]

"One other factor that would dissuade me from this configuration is that the reliability of the switches plays a more influential role (the reliability prediction would be worse for this since there are more single-point-failures, any one of which results in silence from the guitar). Then again, I had a Hagstrom F12-S that used sliders that were terrible, and that might be causing me to have more negativity on this than justified - after all, it worked for Brian!"

I have also had bad experiences with slider switches on a Hofner viola bass. I think slider switches take more force to switch than toggle switches and they are harder to switch quickly, I am sure that has something to do with there unreliability. On the other hand sliders are less likely to get hit or snag on things during transport.   Personally I prefer toggles but maybe some high quality sliders would be good also.

[JohnH]

On switches, clearly the dpdt's can be toggles or sliders. Some practical differences include that toggles mount easily into just a 6.5mm hole, whereas with sliders, it's a rectangular cut-out plus drill for the screws. Also, toggles connect to the lugs on the opposite side to the way the knob is flicked, while sliders go with the knob position.

I've found both to be reliable on my guitars over 10 years, but I'm not flicking them constantly!

One of my favorite switches on guitars is a sub-miniature toggle. It mounts in a 5.5mm hole and is a bit more compact all round. A have one on my Strat. Could be good for secondary jobs like phase.

On invention, of course BM had his guitar in the 60's, which was all series wiring. If you can find a practical one with a series/parallel switch earlier than 2006 on GN2, then I'll be impressed. This scheme is based on an ealier design (Tonemonstsr2). When I was figuring that out and searching to see if it had been done before, the best I could find was a guy who was very pleased to have got this down from 8 poles to 6 poles!

If I was building this again for a Strat or 3pu Tele, I'd definitely pony up for an S1 volume/ switch (which avoids the need for a 4p toggle). I'd use 3x dpdt mini-toggles for the off/on's, and I like the feel of those with flat levers instead of round bass-ball bat shape. Then I'd use sub-minis for the phase, and probably just on N and B.

But, it's also well worth looking at newey's scheme, also linked in post 1. This gets most of the series/parallel functionality with all 2pole switches.

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/4650

[sci4us]

Tasty!

[ourclarioncall]

Brilliant 

I am assuming that this can do all possible series and parallel combinations ?

i tried last night but adapt this diagram for two single coils instead not three but had great difficulty 

it seems this wiring is pretty complex as to be able to get all possible combination . 

how hard would it be to do this for two pickups?
i eventually want to add in 1. Half out of phase switches 2. Volume switches 3. Tone switches , but I would be quite happy to address that later. I’d be very pleased to get this wiring for 2 pickups as a foundation to build on

cheers 

[frets]

Clarion,
Look at your PM’s

[ourclarioncall]

Hi, yeah I got them earlier and replied 😉

[JohnH]

Jan 2, 2020 12:29:13 GMT -5 ourclarioncall said:

Brilliant 

I am assuming that this can do all possible series and parallel combinations ?

i tried last night but adapt this diagram for two single coils instead not three but had great difficulty 

it seems this wiring is pretty complex as to be able to get all possible combination . 

how hard would it be to do this for two pickups?
i eventually want to add in 1. Half out of phase switches 2. Volume switches 3. Tone switches , but I would be quite happy to address that later. I’d be very pleased to get this wiring for 2 pickups as a foundation to build on

cheers 

Apologies for not paying much attention recently (we have a bit of a situation with bushfires down here, about
6 Million hectares of them, and about 300000 of them got within 10km of where we live!), normally Id be right into a thread like this.

The SSS design is was a tricky one, to make it work with three pickups. But with two pickups we have quite a number of series/parallel designs already on tap.

But to make this one adapted to SS. we can consider it like this:

Replace the middle pickup with a wire link, take out its phase switch
Remove the middle on/off switch, and consider that the thick red wire remains, and that the middle lug wires are fixed up to the upper lugs, which is the off position
Remove the middle two banks of the S/P switch, keeping the thick green wire running past

Id be happy to have a go at drawing that soon


For the half out of phase options, ive seen this in terms of both parallel and series versions. For parallel combos, you put a cap in series with one pickup, and with series combos you put a cap in parallel across one pickup , to unbalance them. Works interestingly in phase too. You could have all those added options using, for each pickup, a single-pole on-off-on, plus two caps.

Ill sketch it.

[ourclarioncall]

No worries John

Those fires sound crazy. They must have a few tried and tested methods of stopping the fires then ? 

yeah, I would really appreciate a sketch, I’d love to see how you would do it. I’ve been racking my brain trying to come up with something like this but with the addition of half out of phase. 

anyway, no rush, just when you’ve got tim

take care

[pablogilberto]

Oct 23, 2019 15:32:40 GMT -5 JohnH said:

On switches, clearly the dpdt's can be toggles or sliders. Some practical differences include that toggles mount easily into just a 6.5mm hole, whereas with sliders, it's a rectangular cut-out plus drill for the screws. Also, toggles connect to the lugs on the opposite side to the way the knob is flicked, while sliders go with the knob position.

I've found both to be reliable on my guitars over 10 years, but I'm not flicking them constantly!

One of my favorite switches on guitars is a sub-miniature toggle. It mounts in a 5.5mm hole and is a bit more compact all round. A have one on my Strat. Could be good for secondary jobs like phase.

On invention, of course BM had his guitar in the 60's, which was all series wiring. If you can find a practical one with a series/parallel switch earlier than 2006 on GN2, then I'll be impressed. This scheme is based on an ealier design (Tonemonstsr2). When I was figuring that out and searching to see if it had been done before, the best I could find was a guy who was very pleased to have got this down from 8 poles to 6 poles!

If I was building this again for a Strat or 3pu Tele, I'd definitely pony up for an S1 volume/ switch (which avoids the need for a 4p toggle). I'd use 3x dpdt mini-toggles for the off/on's, and I like the feel of those with flat levers instead of round bass-ball bat shape. Then I'd use sub-minis for the phase, and probably just on N and B.

But, it's also well worth looking at newey's scheme, also linked in post 1. This gets most of the series/parallel functionality with all 2pole switches.

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/4650

Hey John!

I'm interested in building this using the S1 switch.

Will be a big help if you can share the diagram for that.

Thank you!

[JohnH]

Jan 8, 2020 0:21:03 GMT -5 pablogilberto said:

Hey John!

I'm interested in building this using the S1 switch.

Will be a big help if you can share the diagram for that.

Thank you!

Hi Pablo - I don't actually have that diagram done right now. It will definitely work, and it can go on my to-do list to work out soon.

[sci4us]

I think I have the answer already, but I'd like to ask you anyway:



Using this picture from Rothstein Guitars, would this be the correct way to wire the treble and bass cut pots in conjunction with the Brian May Series/Parallel mod you did?



To my mind, the PTB tone circuit would work the same way regardless, but thought it prudent to ask, in case there were some exception based on the way it was wired?



www.guitar-mod.com/images/strat_PTB.jpg

[JohnH]

Yes I think the PTB will work fine. After all the switching in this Brian May mod, what comes out goes into a standard tone and volume set up, so you can sub in the PTB with no problem. I'd suggest to use a 250k no-load pot for the treble cut, then a 250k volume pot. The bass cut at 1M is best as a reverse log if you can get it, which is what it's drawn as. But if you use z normal log pot, swap to the other outer lug and it will work the other way.

[sci4us]

Thanks for the response!  I "Lol-ed" myself as I got 500K pot for volume and 500K no-load for tone.  I was thinking that way about the treble tone as being a no-load pot, just picked a different value.  I had seen a discussion on this forum, or another, that indicated it might be best to use 500K because of the series/parallel switch, to accommodate the series mode.  I'm not as worried, as I can dial the pots back, but I am interested in making it the most suitable for the circuit.  

P.S.  I was questioning the way that PTB was wired because it has the wire from the 5-way switch common going to the treble pot first, then around through bass pot back to the volume pot; whereas, in your series/parallel diagram, you have the 4PDT switch wire going to the volume pot first.  I wasn't sure it mattered too much on the standard 5-way, but wondered because of the series/parallel switch, and if that mattered, which you did answer.

[sumgai]

sci,

Mar 12, 2020 12:08:02 GMT -5 sci4us said:

.....
P.S.  I was questioning the way that PTB was wired because it has the wire from the 5-way switch common going to the treble pot first, then around through bass pot back to the volume pot; whereas, in your series/parallel diagram, you have the 4PDT switch wire going to the volume pot first.  I wasn't sure it mattered too much on the standard 5-way, but wondered because of the series/parallel switch, and if that mattered, which you did answer.

I could've written out a nice treatise that would've answered your question, but instead I'll  just link to this thread, for your reading pleasure of course: 

Modern vs. 50's Wiring

HTH




sumgai

[sci4us]

Cool.  Thanks for the link!

[sci4us]

Mar 12, 2020 1:50:41 GMT -5 JohnH said:

Yes I think the PTB will work fine. After all the switching in this Brian May mod, what comes out goes into a standard tone and volume set up, so you can sub in the PTB with no problem. I'd suggest to use a 250k no-load pot for the treble cut, then a 250k volume pot. The bass cut at 1M is best as a reverse log if you can get it, which is what it's drawn as. But if you use z normal log pot, swap to the other outer lug and it will work the other way.

Would you say that using 500K for the Volume would make it too "ice-picky?"  I'd like to see your thoughts on the matter, given the amount of experimentation I believe you have done—also that you wrote the diagram that I am using for reference.  

Thanks!

[JohnH]

It will be a tad edgier, but not much. If yoy dont like it you can turn the treble control down slightly, which is electrucal almost identical in tonal effect as using a lower value pot. Also, you can try putting a resistor across the outer volume pot lugs.

Another consequence of a 500k volume instead of 250k is that the bass cut maybe less effective. If you find that, you can use a smaller bass cut cap. It's all personal preference though.