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Post by BlackAngusYoung on Jun 19, 2010 23:43:50 GMT -5
And yes, you could bandsaw off the whole unneeded section, but I think you're not gonna like that as much. When I asked if I could just do this with two cuts on the bandsaw... I meant so the end result would be as you described. I just meant using the saw instead of router. Like... I could cut up towards the headstock the right distance for the scale length and then cut from the back towards the fingerboard. That would get rid of the chunk of neck and create the fingerboard overhang. Then I'd just hand-sand the parts I cut.
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Post by sumgai on Jun 20, 2010 3:55:06 GMT -5
BAY, I'm not sure about that last part, about handsawing..... but if you meant "finish the job by rounding the corners with a coping saw (or some such fine-detail tool), etc.", then yes, your method will work, but with one proviso: I hope you haven't forgotten that the neck is slanted, from heel to nut. Most often this angle continues right through the heel portion, so you can't rely on that as a guide to get the cut in the proper place. In order to get a cut that is perfectly perpendicular to the neck's centerline, you'll need to support the neck with a jig of some kind. However, on most bandsaw tables that I've seen, there's not a lot of extra room for a jig that's as big as the neck. Why don't you kick that idea around for a day (or two) and see if you can come up with a good sturdy jig. I'm sure that other members here will also contribute with their ideas on this. HTH sumgai
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Post by cynical1 on Jun 20, 2010 8:13:38 GMT -5
Well, the last time I spent a half dozen paragraphs on how to build a jig the neck in question wound up on a belt sander...
There are a couple of ways you can shave the heel. First off, what kind of access do you have to tools? What I mean is, on this type of operation, you really should have a router table for the router...and bandsaw designs, as SG noted, can leave little room for your jig.
While this sounds like the quickest route (no pun intended) it can also be the trickiest, as building your jig to securely hold the neck while you operate will vary depending on your choice of tools. Guitar necks make bad Frisbees...and they generally don't take the landing well...
The neck heel is the best place to secure the neck in the jig...and that's where you're going to be doing your work.
Again, what type of tools do you have available for the "shaving", as well as building the jig/fixture?
HTC1
PS: SG pondered as to why both necks fit the same guitar. On a Strat, or most Strat copies, the neck pocket standard is 5/8" deep, length 3" and width 2-3/16".
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Post by lpf3 on Jun 20, 2010 10:45:53 GMT -5
I may have missed something but so far I don't think we've covered the fact that the neck is tapered & the neck pocket is tapered to match. Either way, extend the neck pocket or shave off the heel of the neck and they won't match anymore. On both sides of the neck there will be a gap- although maybe only a slight one. I guess it all depends how well you want the neck to fit, & how much you care about the appearance of your guitar. Personally I think y'oughta find another way, or another use for that neck, or decide you like the current neck just fine........but that's just me. -lpf3
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Post by BlackAngusYoung on Jun 20, 2010 10:48:41 GMT -5
BAY, I'm not sure about that last part, about handsawing..... No, I said hand- sanding not sawing.Like, cut out the corner that's in the way, sand the cuts and call it a day. The parts I cut will be pressed up tight against the guitar body and pickguard, anyways, so they won't be seen. The tools I have--and the limited experience I've had with them--are my dad's for making primitive wooden folk art. Not very polished or intricate stuff, either. That's where I'm coming from and though I'd like to eventually get into some classy luthiery, I guess I've got a comfort circle to work on. I'd like to emulate Leo Fender... but I mix in some of the oldworld wholesomeness of Gepetto and the social graces of Leatherface.
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Post by lpf3 on Jun 20, 2010 11:01:29 GMT -5
I'll tell ya one way you can buy yourself about 1/2 inch of additional screw travel is to replace your stock string saddles with barrel type saddles. Don't laugh- it'll solve yer problem on the cheap. It's easy work, to boot. -lpf3 EDIT: Never mind. I just saw your pictures- you want to go the other way. My suggestion won't work.
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Post by sumgai on Jun 20, 2010 15:04:52 GMT -5
BAY, lpf's comments about tapering have only been addressed peripherally..... But in point of fact, the amount removed (1.5cm) will cause a gap between the sides of vanishingly small proportions. I doubt it would take even so much as a matchbook cover to fill that gap tightly, and probably less than that. I recommend that you don't let this aspect set you back - keep on truckin'. But something else lpf said.... I can see where this kind of thing might occur more than once or twice. (!) If I were in the parts business, I'd hunt up a metalsmith, and have him cast for me a series of bridge plates that have the mounting holes offset by various amounts. Say about 1/16", 1/8" and 3/16", each amount fore and aft, for a total of six different offset amounts. That should do for most folks who find themselves in this bind. Presto! no more woodwork - just lift off the old bridge plate, insert the new one, and the saddles now sit at the proper scale length. Voila! - All is well on Mojo-land! ;D Now, as to c1's assertions regarding jigs..... he actually hit it right on the head - use something to mount the neck in its regular holes. What I envisioned was a foot-long chunk of 4x4. Cut a slot in it deep enough to hold the neck (on its side), about 3" deep. The thin part should be as thick as the guitar body at the neck mounting point. (Somewhere around an inch.) Use the same screws as you would for the guitar. Don't remove any other wood from that 4x4, you need it for bulk, and for giving your hands a good purchase on the jig, to keep it steady. If you're uncomfortable with the 1/2" or so of wood remaining under the slot (you don't think it would be strong enough), bolster that by attaching another 2x4 to the bottom. Be sure to recess the screws so that they don't scratch the bandsaw's table. Make sure that the neck is mounted in that jig such that the centerline is perfectly perpendicular to the bandsaw blade. You'll need only a small amount sticking sideways out of the slot, just enough to see your lines, and a bit more, so that you don't end up trying to saw through the jig itself. (Although that wouldn't be a disaster, it'd just slow down the sawblade a bit.) And lastly, I apologize for not reading the fine print more closely. Hand sawing indeed... harrumph! HTH sumgai
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Post by BlackAngusYoung on Jun 21, 2010 9:49:40 GMT -5
Would you consider it important to make the end of the neck rounded to perfectly fit the neck pocket?
I have read somewhere (Tele forum I think) conflicting opinions about whether it affects tone and sustain. I think they were swapping necks between Telecasters and Stratocasters.
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Post by cynical1 on Jun 21, 2010 13:01:45 GMT -5
You can hand file and sand the radius back in, but with the slight play your going to have in the pocket once you shorten the neck you'll probably want as much flat surface area contacting the end of the neck pocket.
While the amount of play will be minimal, make sure you're square with your bridge/tailpiece before you re-locate the mounting holes. For reference, you can use old pieces of veneer to reposition the neck square in the neck pocket to determine you new mounting hole locations.
One more thing, and it may be a non-issue, but I mention it because I can't tell from the pictures... If your plan is to notch the heel and leave the fretboard long make sure you check the dimensions on the neck pocket depth to the underside of the fretboard. Not cutting far enough will cause the neck to catch prior to making to the bottom of the pocket. This step usually requires hand filing/sanding to accomplish. And remember to check this dimension with the pickguard installed and not to the body sans pickguard.
HTC1
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Post by BlackAngusYoung on Jun 30, 2010 16:22:27 GMT -5
Thanks again for all the advice. If I couldn't follow it now, maybe I will next time or at least someone else will when they come to this ever-evolving reference! Here is a photo of what I ended up doing. I'm happy with how it turned out. The scale length is perfect and it feels great to play. I've installed the Fender Strat '57/'62 pickups and my custom wiring, as I'd been asking advice about on another thread. These parts didn't cost me very much, but I've learned a lot and ended up with a guitar that's just the way I wanted. Pretty cool!
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Post by chuck on Jun 30, 2010 16:38:09 GMT -5
looks awesome !
the end result is just what i had in mind ... glad you have your guitar playing and sounding the way you want it now !
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Post by BlackAngusYoung on Jul 1, 2010 11:17:44 GMT -5
Yeah, the fretboard overhang just didn't occur to me until suggested here. I'm really glad it was suggested, because it would be wasteful to get rid of a fret or two and I'd probably find out later that I didn't have to and be really annoyed. If you look really close, you can see it's not completely perfect where the two saw cuts meet, but you have to look pretty closely and I'm sure it still looks way better than it ever would with my original idea.
Though I said earlier that I had never seen an extended fretboard on a guitar, I later realized that some of the Ibanez guitars and basses I have in my own store actually have it... so I must have seen it many times and just didn't realize it was the answer to my problem.
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Post by cynical1 on Jul 2, 2010 11:29:37 GMT -5
BAY -
Very good work. +1 for the finished product. Also, very glad it all worked out so well for you...and you still have your fingers...
As a side note, to anyone else looking at a similar project, PLEASE be aware that the bandsaw and belt sander pictured above are SERIOUS pieces of equipment and all care and caution is advised in their operation.
That aside...what does it sound like?
Happy Trials
Cynical One
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Post by BlackAngusYoung on Jul 2, 2010 16:56:07 GMT -5
BAY - Very good work. +1 for the finished product. Also, very glad it all worked out so well for you...and you still have your fingers... As a side note, to anyone else looking at a similar project, PLEASE be aware that the bandsaw and belt sander pictured above are SERIOUS pieces of equipment and all care and caution is advised in their operation. That aside...what does it sound like? Happy Trials Cynical One Yes, that warning was a good idea. My joking and newbieisms aside... I've used those tools before, just not on anything remotely related to guitars. I was taking a chance on screwing up my guitar neck, but I was pretty confident I wouldn't hurt myself. Anyone looking to my example for advice really probably shouldn't. But if they do... they should do as I did: figure out what you want from asking around and then do it to the best of your own capabilities with the tools and methods you're comfortable with. I think it sounds very good, but I haven't even tried it through my real amp yet, just through a headphone amp. There's usually someone sleeping by the time I feel like making noise. That could change as soon as today, as I'm moving into my own apartment as soon as the current tenants have their things moved out. I'm sure I'll be back with news about it, when I'm back with my next slew of questions.
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