Picking the Right Strings

[maxcalibur]

Hi,

Recently on my acoustic (a fairly cheap Fender), the high e string has gained a terrible intonation, being way flat on the 12th fret. All the other strings are fine so I was wondering if I should restring the guitar using the same gauge on all the strings except the one with flat intonation. If i was to change it, would a thicker or thinner string be appropriate? Or am I just looking for a simple solution to a complex problem?

Thanks,
Maxcalibur

[irwired]

I,t is my understanding that intonation, when it comes down to the fine tuning, is a function of the length of the string between the bridge and the nut. The thickness of the string should not make a difference. The condition of the string would also come into play.

Make sure the tuner you are using is working correctly. You may be measuring with a rubber yardstick

I would try a new set of strings; and follow the owners manual instructions on setup. Don't skip any steps. Pay close attention to the relief of the neck. this could be a contributing factor. At this point you have some known quantities to work from and your problem may be solved.

I hope this is useful.
Cheers
Irwired

[maxcalibur]

Thanks. I thought it was fundamentally the length of the string too but it is possible that the string has been stretched and thinned out somewhere along it too and maybe that has affected it. I'll try changing all the strings when I have the chance, probably on Wednesday. I'm hoping its nothing too much more serious than that as its only happened recently.
Will let you know what happens.

[cynical1]

Oct 18, 2010 14:16:09 GMT -5 maxcalibur said:

...I thought it was fundamentally the length of the string...

Well, that is 1/3 of the equation. The other two are height of the string and the contact point of said string on any given fret.

Generally, it's the b string that is the problem child on most acoustics. A compensated saddle can help, but if the problem goes away with a different set of strings then that's a non-issue.

The nut, frets and saddle can be places to look down the road, but you need to keep in mind that perfect intonation on any stringed instrument is a red herring.

Good luck

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[ijustwannastrat]

is it possible that you flipped the saddle backwards. My saddle pops out of the bridge when I restring, so I have to pay attention to put it in the right way

[maxcalibur]

This will be the first time I've changed the strings so not a popped out saddle. I have started playing in D though so would that have anything to do with it?

If I change strings should I change the gauge?

[lunaalta]

I think that the guage of string, maybe the make also, of string you use would help understand you problem a little better.

I was using Earthwood 10s for a long time but recently changed to Earnie Ball Slinky to save my fingers.... on my old Fender acoustic.

[ijustwannastrat]

Open D? Or a whole step below standard? For those low tunings, your intonation needs to be adjusted to compensate. It's obviously more difficult on a flattop acoustic than an electric...

[maxcalibur]

All strings moved a whole tone down. I was surprised that every other string's intonation is near on perfect. Would I be able to just adjust the truss rod to compensate?

[cynical1]

Well, dropping the tuning will have an effect on the neck. Let me give you a generic example:

A 25.5" scale neck with .10-.50 strings tuned to E-A-D-G-B-E will place approximately 132 pounds of tension on the neck.

The same guitar tuned to D-G-C-F-A-D with the same strings will place approximately 117 pounds of tension on the neck.

So, you have taken approximately 10% of the tension off your existing neck. Logically, this should have effected the intonation on all of your strings. The only issue I see with using the truss rod to accomplish you goals is that in the process of fixing the problem on one string you may very well create an issue with the other 5.

Going to a heavier string gauge may help alleviate your issue. For example, taking the same neck and restringing it with .11-.52 strings puts you right back into the 130 pounds of tension range with your dropped tuning.

Play with the String Tension Calculator a bit and you'll see what I'm getting at.

How long have you been using the dropped tuning on this guitar? I ask as the normal time for a neck to adjust to a truss rod adjustment or radical tuning change is 2-5 days.

For giggles, have you tried to re-tune the guitar to the standard E-A-D-G-B-E tuning to see if your intonation problem goes away?

A compensated saddle may be your last alternative. You might want to check with a qualified repair shop or luthier about obtaining one if you plan on continuing to use the dropped tunings on this guitar.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[maxcalibur]

Thanks. I've been playing in that tuning almost since I bought the guitar a year and a half ago. Will try tuning back to E and see what happens and tomorrow i'll buy new strings. Needs them anyway.

[cynical1]

Remember to give it a few days with the new strings/tuning before you do any serious testing.

Something else that just occurred to me is the changing seasons. Running a furnace dries out the house and can have an effect on your neck. I find that depending on what part of the country I've lived in it's not uncommon to have to make small adjustments to the truss rod/intonation twice a year.

If you change string gauges be aware that the nut may require some attention...especially the wound strings as they may bind in too small a slot.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[JohnH]

Its odd that you have this issue just with one string. Id agree with going back to a new set with standard tuning.

Heres another idea to try: If you can slightly raise the action of that one string, then it will stretch slightly more when fretted at 12, and so be sharper, ie, not flat. Given there is no adjustment provided, a bit of something hard under the string above the bridge, and in the bottom of the nut slot might do it.

John

[maxcalibur]

Changed strings and its all fine now. Intonation is as perfect as it will ever be! I think the string must have had a defect somewhere along it. It was about a year and half old. Thanks for the help.

[cynical1]

Glad all is right with the world...

HTC1

[gitpiddler]

I've decided that old strings have been stretched thin around the frets, thus shifting the center of mass, and intonation, toward the bridge. Really sux on a 12. Cheers Max!

[maxcalibur]

Doing a physics degree, that was very much the conclusion I had come to!