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Post by morbe on Nov 29, 2010 20:56:18 GMT -5
Hello My name is Mike and I'm a tone junkie! What the issue you ask. I recently picked up a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe (used) This is really my first "Tube Amp" Of course I've played tube amps and even owned a Bugera Vintage 5 (very small 5 watt tube amp) but this is my first. I was a little hesitant to get a used amp but I couldnt resist for the price!
So here is the deal be a tube noob as I am. I plugged in in played it took it home played it some more and then after a while it started making a whining noise not like feed back but like from a short in a chord. I would mess with the setting and swap guitar chords and the same thing! I talked with some buddies and well I'm not going to tell what they said because I would love to get some un-corrupted advise from you guys if I may.
So after talking with some buddies I was told to do a Tube tap test, I baby my gear so I was a bit turned off by the idea of tapping the tubes while the thing was on, But I did take the back plate off and reseat the tube? I powered it on and it played OK. I guess I put the tubes back in the same way the smaller tubes I had no issues with but the bigger ones weren't so cut and dry. Can you install these incorrectly?
So after the reseat I did not plug in an instrument, turned the Clean - Volume all the way to 12 (LOL but it goes to eleven) No whining
Gain channel - Gain and Master all the way no Whining
More Gain Channel - Gain and Master all the way, no whining but it started to feed back on its own? Is this thing just totally screwed?
Well after reading the Fender Manual for this Amp it is very specific of what tubes to use. (x3)Fender Groove Tubes 12AX7 and (x2)Fender Groove Tubes 6L6B. But this was not what was in the amp!!!
The Tube Config in the Amp was as follows:
(x2) Audio Glassic Blues Tubes 6L6WGB
(x1) Ruby 12AT7
(x1) Sovtek 7025/12AX7wa
(x1) Phillips 12AT7WC
Is this going to mess up the Amp not having the manufactures suggested Tubes?
What could the whining have been from?
What is causing the Feed back on the Maxed out Gain and Master on the More gain Channel?
Thanks fro reading guys, I value every bodies input in all matters here! Thanks
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Post by gfxbss on Nov 29, 2010 22:23:58 GMT -5
Welcome to the club buddy!
Just to clarify, are you using any pedals?
You can test for a micro phonic pre-amp tube (the small ones usually 12AX7's or 12AT7's) by gently tapping it w/ a screwdriver while the amp is on and out of standby. If you hear any ringing or unusual noises, the tube should be replace.
It is possible to seat a tube wrong, but in my experience, pretty tough. If they slide in pretty easily, then you have them in correctly. Notice on the 6L6's that there is what is called a key that fits into a slot on the tube socket.
If you suspect that the tubes are working their way out, then either the sockets need to be replace, the retainers (if the amp has them) need replaced, or the tube sockets need re-tensioned. On either replacing the sockets or re-tensioning the sockets I would advise that if you are not VERY confident in your skill, take it to a shop. Tube amps carry HIGH VOLTAGE and if you mess something up, there is a chance that you wont get another chance to make up for it....
You do not have to use the amps suggested tubes. Groove Tubes is nothing but a brand, they in fact only make one model(to my knowledge) of tubes at their factory. What groove tubes does is buy tubes from factories all around the world, test them, and make sure that you are getting good tubes that are matched. Groove Tubes is essentially a quality control service.
You should make sure that models of tubes do match however, IE: if it calls for a 6L6, use a 6L6(not a KT88 or 6550 which will fit the same sockets). That being said, 12AX7's, 12AT7's and 12AU7's to my knowledge are all interchangeable.
Do you know how old the power tubes are(the 6L6's)? It may very well be time to replace them.
HTH,
Tyler
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Post by morbe on Nov 29, 2010 22:46:48 GMT -5
Thanks! I dont use pedals. Im thinking Im just going to save up some extra cash and get a complete Set of Tubes and replace them when I need to, currently its playing good now after I reseated the tubes. I just really like the blues sound I get out of it I was worried that interchanging the Tubes was going to give a different and unwanted tone.
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Post by gfxbss on Nov 29, 2010 23:09:45 GMT -5
Interchanging tubes will give a different tone. Unwanted? That is up to you to decide. I have gotten tubes from www.thetubestore.com with good success in the past. That being said, they do not have the QC like Groove Tubes. Are you wanting to change just the pre-amp tubes, or just the power amp tubes, or both? |
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Post by thetragichero on Nov 29, 2010 23:50:24 GMT -5
don't use a screwdriver for the tap test... a lot easier to bust a tube than the eraser end of a pencil
i would say replace the tubes in any used amp by default
they don't need to be the manufacturers recommended tubes... in fact, some old tubes from 50 years ago send best to a lot of us!
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Post by gfxbss on Nov 30, 2010 0:22:20 GMT -5
I never thought of using a pencil, that seems like a solid idea.
I wouldn't change all of the tubes by default, I would see how I like the sound. If I like it, buy power tubes. Pre-Tubes will change the tone A LOT. It is always a good idea to have back up tubes available and ready anyways.....
Tyler
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Post by morbe on Nov 30, 2010 6:57:19 GMT -5
Thanks I think when I run into some more monies I will just replace them all. I'm not sure if the amp or current tubes are in any danger due to those tubes not being the manufactures recommended (I don't know if the amp was rebias) So I think I'm just going to get what the manufacture wants just until i feel a little more comfortable working with tube amps. But I planned to just replace them All 2 power tubes and 3 pre amp tubes. I see that I can get them from teh tube store but is there any other place I can get them?
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Post by Yew on Nov 30, 2010 7:21:47 GMT -5
I seem to remember some chats about an old marshall where the tubes where rusted in, like ones from the 70's?
everyone said it sounded good
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Post by morbe on Dec 7, 2010 15:11:42 GMT -5
I actaully called the owner of the store I got the amp from. He was upset also that he let an amp go out with bad tubes, even though it was used he promises to replace all the tubes in the amp. He has already ordered: sovtek 6L6WXT duet platinum matched power tubes and three Sovtek 12AX7WA pre amp tubes. I'll keep you guys updated on the tone and everything if you want.
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Post by morbe on Dec 10, 2010 21:41:24 GMT -5
dude The store who sold me the Amp is flippin Sweet! First off the Amp had bad tubes so he replaced. Then the amp had an issue cutting off at high volumes. So he paid to have it basically Rebiased, and the issue resolved and had the Tech check out from top to bottom and reinforced EVERY solder joint in the amp. Bottom Line the amp freaking Kicks Arse!! The amp is older and Used and the Owner was willing to purchase a new amp like model if the original amp was hosed.
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 10, 2010 22:37:44 GMT -5
Well, that was really a happy ending.
You need to put the word out for this guy. He deserves a shameless plug here.
Who is this guy?
HTC1
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Post by gfxbss on Dec 11, 2010 0:08:14 GMT -5
Yeah, no kidding.
They only time I get that treatment is when I have known the owner for years and I bring new people in constantly....
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Post by jcgss77 on Dec 11, 2010 12:29:20 GMT -5
So who is this guy, what is his store name? C1 is right, you just don't see that kind of treatment today.
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Post by morbe on Dec 20, 2010 11:32:11 GMT -5
Is name is mike mowats and he's the owner of momar music. He has a web site called momarmusic.com that amp rocks, I have been trying to play blues with a line 6, and other solid state amps and though I can play decent, those amps and an ibanez les paul copy were okay, but I just got a used fender stratocaster and hooked it up to the amp and songs I have been trying to learn for years finally hit me like duh. It was never my skill inquestion it was the lack of tone that didn't sound right. I'm not the best guitarist by any stretch of the imagination but yesterday I finally after 3 years learned to play red house by hendrix! My friends where like WTF where did that come from. We even had to play it a couple of times to make sure it wasn't a fluke! This reminds I have to ask some questions about the strat I got but I will post those in the right spot. Thanks for the support guys!
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Post by JFrankParnell on Dec 20, 2010 13:04:05 GMT -5
haha, srsly? Mowats? as in Mo' Watts? cuz thats awesome  |
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Post by sumgai on Dec 20, 2010 13:56:13 GMT -5
haha, srsly? Mowats? as in Mo' Watts? cuz thats awesome Valley Girl alert! Danger, Will Robinson! Valley Girl alert!! |
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 20, 2010 14:40:34 GMT -5
Hey, like, that was the album that Zappa credited Vai with playing the "Impossible Guitar parts"...awesome, dude...like, totally...
HTC1
(Sorry, couldn't help myself...)
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Post by ijustwannastrat on Dec 20, 2010 17:07:38 GMT -5
Hey, like, that was the album that Zappa credited Vai with playing the "Impossible Guitar parts"...awesome, dude...like, totally... HTC1 (Sorry, couldn't help myself...)HTC1? I see you sign that, but I'm still lost on it.... C1=Cynical1, I hope, but what's HT? |
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 20, 2010 19:33:59 GMT -5
HTC1? I see you sign that, but I'm still lost on it.... C1=Cynical1, I hope, but what's HT? HT= Happy Trails C1= As you suspected, Cynical One It's my abbreviated salutation... Generally reserved for when I'm either late for work, at work, or the post would be shorter then the salutation. Happy Trails Cynical One |
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Post by JFrankParnell on Dec 20, 2010 23:22:24 GMT -5
hey, go gag yerself with a spoon, sumgai >:}
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Post by morbe on Dec 21, 2010 13:51:09 GMT -5
Like totally!
Momar music is cool. He will give you top dollar on trade in, not too much sales but trade in. I had a fender frontline DSP 212 and guitar center was going to give me 150 dollars for but I was looking into getting a small PA and he gave me 275 towards the purchase of a small PA. Not to mention he gives out frequent buyer cards every 100 buck you spend you get a card and if you get 10 you get 100 dollars of next purchase. And if you rent gear and like it you can buy it and he takes off what you already payed in rent. My buddy got a marshall stack that way.
I just had too many bad expiriences at sam ash and guitar center. But I think I might just start going online for that small stuff. Its not worth the unfriendly attitude.
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