stratocaster set up for blues tone.

[morbe]

For those of you that know me and my story. I will always thirst for tone and knowledge and thank all of you for all of your collective insight. I recently purchased a fender hot rod deluxe and it was basically rebuilt. I've played blues for a while but on an ibanez les paul copy. I then recently purchased a used fender stratocasterm OMG the blues tone is there!! But, I want more!! The string that o got with the guitar are too light for me. If I was a betting man I would say they are atleast 10 gauge or even 9 gauge strings. I normally use 11 gauge strings. But I have been reading how SRV would use 12 gauge and larger and that was a part of his signature tone. My question is if I go to 12 or even 11's do I have to reset the string height and and intonation?

[cynical1]

Dec 20, 2010 12:06:38 GMT -5 morbe said:

...My question is if I go to 12 or even 11's do I have to reset the string height and and intonation?

More then likely, yes. After a week or so you may notice that you're looking at a possible truss rod tweak.

This is why SRV and others tuned down to D to eliminate the additional tension on the neck from the heavier strings.

Example:

.008's at EADGBE puts around 81-82 lbs on the neck

.010's at EADGBE puts around 130-135 lbs on the neck

.013's at EADGBE puts around 175-180 lbs on the neck

- However -

.013's at DGCFAD puts around 137-142 lbs on the neck

Then there's the whole issue of probably having to recut the nut slightly for the heavier string gauge.

You may also find yourself moving the pickup height to taste.

None of this is difficult, but it does need to be considered in making a significant change in string gauges.

You will notice a big change in your tone with the .013's tuned down to D...especially if there's .009's in there now...night and day springs to mind...

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[ijustwannastrat]

I also have to remember SRV's tone is really complicated.

He has underwound (or overwound?) puppies
He hits the strings REALLY hard
Massive strings
Tuned down (I thought it was a half step?) a whole step
32 different amps run at the same time to record?
Magic Fingers (biggest part)


I do agree, however, that putting 11's on will sound great. It's what I use on my partsocaster. Like Cynical1 said, you're gonna need some tweaking all around if you do that.

Another tip, middle pup. I personally love the middle puppy the most when it comes to Single coil blues tones.

[morbe]

Yeah use 11s on all my guitars but I normally don't have to do any tweaking to the t-rod. I wonder what fender puts on tje guitars from the factory? BTW I'm not sure if the previous owner had it set up for lighter strings.

[sumgai]

morbe,

In the interests of selling guitars, Fender installs the lightest guage set they make - .009's. This way a beginner can pick up a guitar off the rack, and bend strings like there's no tomorrow.... the result being, he/she things that the axe is easy to play, and therefore a good deal.

Sadly, they do this even on the higher-end guitars, at the expense of tone. I'd bet that Fender feels that experienced players will "see through" the poor tone, and change to heavier strings right after the purchase. But then again, I'd also bet that every last person in Fender's Marketing Department has a tin ear, and wouldn't know good tone if it smacked them upside the head.

Sorry if that helped.....




sumgai

[sumgai]

After a bit of research (read that as: a bit of Googling), I see that SRV used 13's for a short while, then returned to 11's for the remainder of his time with us. But the unusual aspect of those "barb wires" is what lore is made of.....

Also according to that same lore and legend, he tuned down only a half-step - I found no references saying that he went down a whole-step.

I also ran into many, many forums where astute (and no doubt, wise) members opined that you can go only so far with equipment, when it comes to capturing "that tone". The majority portion of "that tone" is nothing more than the player him/herself. As one poster said: "You need to go out and find his heart, because that's what the man poured out, every time he played." When you've succeeded in that quest, report back here, and receive all due accolades.

HTH


sumgai

[cynical1]

Hey, I agree completely...it's the fingers and the player. If it were just the strings even I'd sound good.

And you're right, it was a half step...but it's easier figuring the tension calcs with a whole step... Science marches on...

HTC1

[morbe]

Yeah I guess 10 and 11 are the standard sizes. I go with 11's then. I agree I've been told I can play with heart. But its my soul that enjoys it the most. As for the strings on now, I honestly feel I'm going to pop one pulling on it. I've used an ibanez les paul copy since it was my first guitar when I was 13 but I can realy see this strat taking its place. Especialy in the blues arena.

[cynical1]

For reference, tuning .013's down a half step puts approx 150 lbs on the neck, versus the 175-180 lbs when tuned to standard EADGBE.

...just so you know...

HTC1

[morbe]

I guess I will wait till I have to change them. I'll get 11s because that's what MJO plays. But no use in changing them now. I guess I won't try and fix right now since its not broken.

[ijustwannastrat]

I agree with that to a point.

If you feel that the strings really are too small, then it COULD be considered broken, or at least not functioning to its fullest potential.

Another thing I would look at if I were you, if you don't mind not having a floating bridge, you could try putting another one or two springs on the trem vibrato claw. I know I like a more firm vibrato to yank on (stifle your giggles!). Having a down-only vammy could help tuning also, if I understand what I've read.

[thetragichero]

i like all five springs in my non hardtails as well

[cynical1]

Dec 20, 2010 17:06:13 GMT -5 ijustwannastrat said:

...I know I like a more firm vibrato to yank on...

Watch that vibrato stuff, kid...you could go blind...

HTC1
(Again, it was a cheap shot and I couldn't resist...)

[Double Yoi]

Just a heads up:
Due to the difference in scale length between your LP and Strat, a larger gauge string on the strat is gonna feel stiff at first, maybe even uncomfortable.
I've been on strats and teles so long LPs feel mushy. (no offense)

I think most would agree that if you are planning on stepping up from a 9 to an 11 or 12, a pro set up would be well worth the money. New nut, intonation,action and truss adjustment. The thing will play better and not bind up when you give the wang the bidness.

My favorite SRV story is how he used to rip off his calluses during shows and super glue em back on! Don't know if its true....God I hope it is.

[ijustwannastrat]

I know whenever my bass fingers turn to mush, and I fill in for a buddy at a gig, I end up needing super glue to hold my fingers together.

And Double Yoi is right. New scale length. changes feel. Maybe try some 10-52's before you put on 11's?

[morbe]

Dec 20, 2010 20:17:15 GMT -5 Double Yoi said:

I think most would agree that if you are planning on stepping up from a 9 to an 11 or 12, a pro set up would be well worth the money. New nut, intonation,action and truss adjustment.

Do you really think going to 11's will need a new nut?

Well then maybe I will try 10's as suggested and step up gradually if needed. but the strings on it now WILL NOT do. I tried to go half step down and they were too loose. I was thinking of going with GHS strings because thats what SRV used. do you think I should just get off this SRV kick and find a better string. On my LP I Ernie ball super slinkys.

[cynical1]

You may not need a new nut to go with the heavier strings, but tweaking the cut of the nut isn't out of the question. Generally, going heavier is just a nut adjustment. If you do make it up to the .013's and decide to go back then it new nut time.

Or, just grab an LHS roller nut. I believe they'll take up to .013's, but don't quote me on that. I know they'll do .011's. They do require major surgery to install on a standard neck, though...but if you're going to put a new nut in, and you want the ability to change gauges frequently on a whammyesque guitar, they are a serious option to consider.

Rather then dropping a bunch of coin on GHS, I would suggest a trip to Webstrings.



This way you can play with a couple of different gauge sets for $2.99 a set. These are not crappy strings at a low price. These are actually some impressive strings for a very good price. I've got a set of their SS flatwound bass strings that sound as good as any set I every dropped $40.00 on.

HTC1

[irwired]

I have been using Web Strings for My Reverend (10s) very nice tone, also for nylon and steel acoustic. I'm happy with the quality and if you buy a dozen or so sets at a time you save on the shipping

I have been using Fender Bullets on the Strat because of the bullet ends. Is there some secret knowledge to making regular strings work on a Fender.

IRW

[morbe]

Okay so let's hope moving to 10' won't effect things too much or too drastic. I'm a do it your selfer and I have retentioned a neck and set string height. But only on junk and expirimental guitars. I realy don't want to do it to a high dollar guitar. But when I do get into some cash maybe I will take it in and it done up right with 11's I hears horror stories with 12's and above that it really tears your fingers to shreds. I think I may start getting them online, I just went down to guitar center and I'm not sure about other places but in san antonio, it seems that the interview process is as such:
Manager: can you be an butt to every one that comes in contact with you?
Applicant: absolutly!
Manager: great you can start right away.

[ashcatlt]

Part of the point of going to heavier strings is the added tension. A guitar string tends to sound its best when it's stretched almost to breaking. Tuning down after adding heavier strings kind of defeats that purpose.

Yes, heavier strings will put a bit more tension on the neck, and might require a truss rod adjustment. Yes, it'll hurt more. Bends will be more difficult. And, yes, the strings will likely break more often.

I have never really gone past 11's, but I've found that the wound strings themselves make fine nut files. Just run it back and forth in the groove until it seats itself. The unwound strings won't work this way, but they'll usually fit okay anyway. Tuning might be a little sticky for a while, but eventually they wear themselves in.

OTOH - my local store will do a setup for free any time you buy a set of strings, and I usually leave it to them.

[Yew]

Yeah, the 10's on my SG feel much tighter than the same set of strings (well same brand+model) that could actually be due to neck and fretboard size differances.

[morbe]

I strung up 10's last night, I have a slight bend in the neck that raised the strings up just a hair. But Not more than what it was originally. but I think 10' will be the permanent strings on that guitar. Then bend nice and dont feel like toys. SRV tone? well close but on the plus they did give the guitar a beefier sound which I liked. I've been playing the guitar for about 5 years now. Why did it take so long for me to own a fender?!

[ijustwannastrat]

It took Clapton and Beck a couple of years to get the right idea, too.


But in all seriousness, all instruments have a different sound, and all people perceive sound differently.

Personally for me, you can't beat a LP into an old Fender amp. Of course, Tele into a Vox is also delicious.

I think that guitars are like love, that everybody has that one guitar that was MADE for them, and you just have to find it. Some people find it after a year, some people take their entire life. I know I haven't found mine yet...

[morbe]

Man if there was a way to put sound clips on here via blackberry I would do it. The fender hot rod deluxe with strat sounds extremely well and prfessional.

[4real]

"Tone is 90% in the technique...and 'blues tone' comes in many flavours and guitars really...

For the SRV and hendrix et al tone...they all tended to tune down which helps with heavier grade strings.

But, you have to use strings that match your technique and physical way of playing....and work up to silly heavy strings.

I use 10's on everything (even acoustics) and always have...9's are far too skinny for me and the tone thin. They are good for the 'shredding" thing though...

One of the more important things is the action and generally these guys and jeff beck too use a fairly high action...as do I. You get a different attack and tone from the strings bending over the fret and clearing the next frets...it tends to 'stiffen things' up...but will also "slow you down" if you also want to do shredding stuff like Vai, forget it!

So, I'd not be too concerned about 'chasing tone' like SRV and searching for your own and works for you...

...

As for the HR Deluxe...had mine for almost 3 years now, never a problem and a great clean sound...the 'channels' are ok, but you get a far better overdriven sound with a stomp box.

It is the worlds most popular amp...but people who can afford anything use a whole range of amp often at once, especially SRV and guys like Eric Johnson...and the deluxe is an 'entry level' valve amp...good as it may be.

...

I originally played Les Pauls and recently built a new one...and have been playing a telecaster for the last 2 years or so...but back to the strat which is such a fabulous guitar design and sound for all kinds of styles. LP's and gibsons generally have a slightly shorter scale but it makes quite a bit of difference to the feel.

But you know...there are plenty of fantastic blues tones besides the SRV strat thing...Moore and Clapton Beano's era LP sound was pretty amazing, BB's hollowbody has a classic tone, there are some great tele players too in blues...it really isn't the guitar so much as the player...

...

However...the strat does that percussive thing pretty neatly...use the strings appropriate to you and don't get too carried away with the hype of these things or what other players have done and build up to things...10's and a higher action usually gets you into the ballpark with standard tuning (similar to a heavier gauge and drpped tuing of SRV or JH)...you have to choose what works for you and what you are wanting to do with it.

I'd be looking to be able to bend in tune a minor third on the higher strings, from perhaps the 5th fret up without cutting up your callouses and general comfort.

I have dan erlwines guitar repair book that goes through everything on SRV guitar as well as other players like JB (it was also in GP) and has all the action measurements, bridge set ups, string gauges and set ups.

...

Personally, I'd take what you like from a range or players and strive to find your own thing the way that all the greats did that made them identifiable. There are heaps of great things that SRV gave to guitar and blues...but there is so much more and the world is full of SRV clones.

It can even be good to see where others are taking this kind of thing...love him or hate him, John Mayer is an encyclopedia of blues styles but also comes up with new twists to the SRV and JH styling...worth a look in, especially his 'trio' stuff...

...

PS...the LSR roller nut is a very tricky device...great, but won't take heavier gauges really...plus the mods are permanent and a bit tricky...you need to route the nut slot forward...but it does have a benefit of screw and shim height adjustment.

You can do nuts yourself and can recommend Graph tech tusq XL's...but they do take a bit of filing...generally though nuts probably don't need replacing...if you are not too savvy with these things, truss rod adjustment and action setting...you may consider getting and idea of the kind of thing that suits you and getting a pro set up...this will give you an idea of how good a guitar can be!