Jimmy Page wiring info

[soa324]

Has anyone out there used the Jimmy pagewiring info from the new england luthiers site and experienced problems?

Richard

www.newenglandluthiers.org/contents/Articles/Tips_Techniques_Tools/JPLP_wiring/Intro.html

[JohnH]

welcome to GN2. If you post a link we can check it out. We have lots of JP type diagrams here so we know what to look for.
J

[soa324]

www.newenglandluthiers.org/contents/Articles/Tips_Techniques_Tools/JPLP_wiring/Intro.html

[newey]

soa234-

Hello and welcome to G-Nutz2!

I don't know why JohnH didn't see your link. The link contains very detailed verbal directions for the JP wiring- but no diagram or schematic. Thus, the only way to double-check each step is to read through the whole thing and compare each step to a known-good diagram.

If we had this guy's diagram, we could double-check it in 5 minutes. With verbal directions, it'd be an hour or more . . .

Also, these directions also include directions for shielding and star-grounding. We're big on shielding and star-grounding around here, so we won't tell you not to do so- but it probably isn't really necessary with humbucking pickups.

So, now to the questions (!):

• Have you already wired your guitar this way and had problems? (your question implies this)
  
  
• If so, what problems?
  
  
• Did you do the shielding/grounding procedures or just the JP wiring?
  
  
• The author indicates he took the scheme from the Seymour Duncan website. Have you compared what you have (if you've already done it) to the SD diagram?
  
  If you haven't actually started anything yet, we have a few different version of the JP wiring in our "Schematics" section, and we can walk you through the procedures if help is needed.
  

[ChristoMephisto]

here's the diagram from SD the link took me to...

www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=jp_style

[soa324]

Hi Newey and thanks for your reply.

I just added the link to my original post so don't be sending John H to the opticians just yet Ha ha ha
I have wired the guitar yes. I painstakingly followed the instructions as set out and as you say it is slow process going through it word by word but I liked the idea of the shielding and not having to solder to the pot casings.
I lined the cavities with copper foil and soldered any seperated pieces in to ensure continuity
It differs from the SD in that there is no pot case soldering.
There was a discrepancy in his discription of soldering bridge tone cap in the photo it looks to mounted on a different pole to his discription-but this could just be that it difficult to see the route of it. I wired as stated.
I have tried to get email contact with Bob but have been unsuccessful.
I may just remove it and follow the seymour diagram if I cant sort it.
Problems are..
Excessive hum/buzz
Select bridge and both pups seem to be on. buzz reduces at full volume. or when tone is reduced.
Both pups selected
Same as above odly!!!
Bridge selected.
Lots of buzz but no output unless I pull the neck tone.
I do realise that I may have misinterprited something and I am not trying to point the finger of blame. I just would like to solve this glitch if poss.

[wolf]

Well, here's my own graphic for the Jimmy Page wiring:

[newey]

If you shielded it and now have excessive noise, it suggests that either one of your ground connections is bad, or a hot connection is touching the shielding somewhere.

Troubleshooting will require a multimeter. Do you have one available to you?

The fact that the bridge pickup only works when the neck tone is pulled would indicate a problem with the wiring to that switch.

Please visually check that none of the P/P wiring is close to contacting the shielding. Then, check what you have against the SD diagram linked to above. Wolf's diagram is fine, but it may differ slightly from the SD one (I didn't check to see whether they were the same or not, since wolf's uses DiMarzio colors anyway.)

[JohnH]

Thanks for the note about the link. I do need help from an optician, but not that badly!

Those instructions - would drive me absolutely completely bonkers. What are the chances of getting over a hundred verbal instructions completely correct? What you need is one diagram that shows everything wired consistently.

I wouldn't worry about ground loops in a passive guitar, they have no effect. Normal guitar grounding works fine. I once got suspicious of this having gone to some trouble to remove such loops, with no change whatsoever. So I then set up a test with the biggest ground loop I could create, and similarly found no effect!

Shielding is a good idea, and the shielding foil needs to be grounded. If you do a conventional LP wire up, contact with the pots will do this, and screwing down the rear cover, faced on the inside with foil, will complete it. Its not essential though on an LP. On a simple LP wiring, all the wires are shielded as are the pot cases, theres very little outside to need further screening. But on these more complex versions, its a good idea.

The SD diagram is nice and clear, but they have wired the volume controls in a bad way, with the central wipers toward the pots. This is intended to avoid one pickup turning off both in parallel mode, but it is very bad for tone and noise. Also, in series mode, only one volume control will work, you cant mix pickups using both volumes. Whether thats good or bad is a matter of preference. Plus, in series mode, you have to push the toggle to the neck or else it doesn't work.

Soldering to pots. I also get concerned by this, and have only recently got an iron that does this quickly. But push/pull pots usually have a lug projecting from the back of the switch case which is very easy to solder to.

I'll have a hunt around for different diagrams - theres a couple that I did, but there are others too, and they all have slight differences.

John

[soa324]

Yes I have a multimeter here. I will have another good look now I also thought something maybe touching the shield but I couldnt see anything obvious. I wonder if the jack hot is touching the original graphite shielding paint... I also have the seymour diagram
Richard

[JohnH]

Good luck – you’ll probably want to troubleshoot what you have built first.

But if you decide on a do-over, you can get a few extra advantages out of the same parts. This diagram, which I drew, is based on a couple of innovations by Borsanova, plus everything I could think of to promote low noise and consistent tone in a JP style guitar.



What it has, beyond the basic JP functions are:

The additional feature of bridge parallel wiring (bright and very low noise), which turns to single coil if you also cut the neck pup to single.
When you pull the series knob, the toggle is over-ridden, so it does matter where you set it
Both volume controls work in series on their respective pickups. There’s more control because you can set mixes very smoothly, and less loading on the pickups in series mode, for a clearer tone.
All main runs or cable are shielded, and the diagram shows all wiring including grounding.
No part-disconnected coils ‘hanging from hot’ – which can pick up buzz if they are uncovered
All two-coil combinations are hum cancelling
Treble bleed cap and resistor on each volume control, to preserve tone at lower volume, and also help to set mixes.

This diagram has been built by 4real and Raz59, so we know it works. Note that switch functions are in different positions to the SD diagram however. the notes talk about swapping a magnet around, but no need to do this unless you are particular about which coil is cut. I could adjust diagram to avoid this.

cheers
John

[soa324]

I really appreciate all your input on this and I agree I need to sort the problem as it stands first. I have cleared out the family for the day and I am gonna take a good look now and see if I can get to the bottom of it. Fingers crossed its something simple ha ha

[soa324]

Well I checked over and over and could not resolve the problem.
I did get a reply from B Pitman who set out the wiring on th New England Luthiers site. All he had to say was he had lots of people experiencing problems and to try and sort it... Not very helpful... In the end I ripped it out and followed the Seymour wiring and it works a treat. I may at some point look again at the additional mods to this from John H.
Thanks to everyone
Richard

[newey]

Glad you got it working, soa!

In trying to simplify things down for those who aren't well-versed in wiring, the guy actually managed to complicate things more. If you are sure that you followed his directions exactly, and given that others also seem to have problems with those directions, and now the SD diagram gives you good results, it suggests that there is indeed a problem with his directions.

But I'm not about to spend the time to figure it out!

[JohnH]

Well done getting it going. Actually I have a couple of questions. What sort of guitar do you have? Is the toggle in the main cavity, or up on the upper bout as on an LP? Also, Id be interested to know how the noise and humcancelling worked out - if you select both pups as single coils, the SD diagram should be humcancelling. Finally, how do you find the tone and pickup interactions when you turn down the volumes?

cheers

John

[soa324]

Hi John,
Thanks for your input and questions throughout on this one. this is a great forum with a wealth of info available. A great find..!
I have a 99 Epi Les paul I have a sh2 in the neck and a sh4 jb in the bridge. I was tempted to install 22 caps but opted for 47 in the end. I kept the copper shield. The pickups are silent in all positions no humming at all. I will spend a bit more time with it over the weekend when I get finished up with work and update you with the tone and pickups interactions.

Cheers

Richard