HELP! Pickup wiring issue!

[Baron ManShred Von PickedOften]

Hello folks!

I am hoping that one of you can help me!

This past weekend, I wired up a Strat in the following configuration:

Neck - Dimarzio PAF Pro
Middle - Dimarzio Virtual Vintage
Bridge - Dimarzio Dual Sound

5 way selector switch
volume
master tone
pickup blender in lieu of second tone control

Each humbucker also goes directly to a 3-position (on/on/on) toggle, for serial/single-coil/parallel operation.

Here are my problems:

1) In position 2 (bridge/middle), I'm sure the pickups are out of phase (very thin sound). In position 4 (neck/middle), the pickups are in phase and sound the way I expect them to. I can't reverse the leads on the middle pickup, because then my neck/middle will be out of phase. Yet I'm pretty sure that my neck and bridge are in phase with each other. How do I change the phase between the middle and bridge without affecting the neck/middle or bridge/neck combinations?
(if it helps, I wired both humbuckers to switches using the following diagram (at GuitarNuts!), converting the colors to standard DiMarzio wiring:

Thoughts?

2) Is it normal for humbuckers to have SOME hum if sitting in front of a monitor? In position 3, the Dimarzio Virtual Vintage is totally silent, regardless of the monitor. When I add the bridge or neck (or run them alone), there is some hum. There seems to be more hum with the neck PAF Pro compared to the Dual Sound?

Thoughts?

Note that my pickguard is made of solid polished aluminum. I don't know if this has any bearing on #2, above.


Any help would be greatly appreciated!

My guitar is here if you're curious to see it (scroll down the page): www.shredbaron.com (it's the black one).

[wolf]

Hello Baron
You realize the diagram you linked to is based on Seymour Duncan wire colors don't you? Are DiMarzio wiring codes different ? Oh yes they are. Pay a visit to my website
www.1728.com/guitar.htm
There you can learn the DiMarzio wiring colors AND
scroll down to the Diagram that says "Humbucking Pickup Wired For Series/Parallel and Coil Cut Switching".
Surprisingly, I believe if you were consistent with the incorrect wire colors that probably would not cause problems with each pickup being in phase with the others. Still, it would help to get things wired correctly to begin with.

[Baron ManShred Von PickedOften]

Hi!

I do realize that...and I ensured that I changed the colors accordingly before I wired it, using the color chart at guitarelectronics.zoovy.com/category/wiringresources.11pickupcolorcodes/

It's possible I made a simple mistake, but I don't think so...I checked it about 6 times prior to doing it, then spent the better part of Sunday afternoon redoing it again - with the same result.

I see that the diagram on your site shows a jumper connecting the top end of the switch - that's different than the configuration in the picture I used. Could that be the problem? (Although I would find that hard to believe, since both the neck and the bridge are wired the same way, and the neck pickup is in-phase with the middle pickup.)

thanks!

George

[wolf]

Sorry to say that the jumper does not make a difference. Electrically, my diagram and the guitarnuts diagram do the exact same thing. I just feel that the jumper connection looks "neater" and (at least for me) is easier to solder. I don't like the idea of trying to solder the same wire to two different terminals.

Sorry, for thinking you might be unaware of the Dimarzio / Seymour Duncan difference in wire colors. If you are a "guitarnut", then you already would have been aware of such things.

[Baron ManShred Von PickedOften]

No problem...I'm sure you get asked a million questions by newbies, so it's a fair assumption.

Serves me right for doing something by diagram without actually understanding it! Heheheh....

That being said, I'm still racking my brain trying to figure this one out. If I reverse the leads on the switch, my bridge pickup will be in phase with the middle, but out of phase with the neck.

Argh!! This is frustrating. I guess I could just put a push-pull in and use it to switch the phase of the middle as I wish, depending on which humbucker I'm using, but I'd rather keep things consistent so that I can switch between 2 and 4 and have things in phase.

[wolf]

Baron
You seem to think the bridge and neck are in phase. What makes you think that? To me it seems you are using the traditional wiring for the Strat 5 way switch except positions 2 & 4 are reversed (Position 2 - Bridge & Middle and Position 4 - Neck and Middle.) So it seems that you couldn't get the tone option of Neck and Bridge together, correct?
And since you said Bridge & Middle sound out of phase and Neck and Middle sound in phase I'd say the solution is to reverse the leads on the bridge pickup.
I notice you said you also have a blend pot. Is that hooked up correctly? Is there anything else that is part of that circuit?

[Baron ManShred Von PickedOften]

Hi!

Thanks for your patience with this!

I'll try and describe my wiring scheme accurately (and succinctly).

The 5-way switch is wired like a traditional Strat 5-way switch. From the neck:

neck - neck/mid - middle - bridge/mid - bridge

The neck humbucker and the bridge humbucker are wired according to the on/on/on schematic we discussed earlier, with the hot lead going to the 5 way switch in the appropriate position, and the other going to a central grounding ring (as per QTB).

The middle pickup has it's red wire going to the 5-way switch, and it's green (and bare) wires going to ground.

There is a volume control and a master tone control.

The blend control is a no-load control, wired as follows:
www.acmeguitarworks.com/webpage.aspx?webpage_id=6

The reason I THINK the bridge and neck pickups are in phase with each other is that when I turn the blend pot to engage the non-switched pickup, the sound doesn't get really thin like an out-of-phase arrangement normally would.

Maybe I'm way out in left field on this one...If I was to reverse the bridge pickup wiring to the switch, which wires would I change? Just the red and green?

I hope this helps. I'm at work now and am describing all of this from memory, otherwise I'd actually try and map it out in a jpeg.

Thanks!

George

[JohnH]

Another question - do the on-on-on switches for both pickups sound as they should for all the series/single/parallel positions? No issues with coils within one humbucker being out of phase?

Are the two HBs wired identically? - i assume so (but see below)

For testing phasing between the Hbs and the middle pups, it may be best to test all the positions for the on-on-on switches. Your pups are all very different, and have different impedances. By the way, which version of a virtual vinatge is it (DiMarzio site lists 2.1, 2.2, blues and solo, ranging from 6.2k to 10.85k)

I find that when you combine two pups in parallel with very different impedances, the sound is much like the one with the lower impedance. Hence a series Hb in parallel with with a single coil of half the impedance, sounds much closer to the Sc than the Hb. This can sometimes mask the effects of in and out of phase. Your pups vary so widely in impedance that it would be good to check all the combinations for phase, in case it gives a clue.

Once youve got all this sorted out, you may want to make one change to one of the HBs (say the neck), to swap the leads between its coils so that the active single coil is the other one as compared to the bridge. This will give you hum cancelling in your blended neck/bridge setting with a single coil from each. It shouldnt affect the combos wit the middle, because the middle pup is hum cancelling in itself. I wouldnt do this until your basic phasing is sorted out however.

[wolf]

JohnH
I thought all 3 pickups were humbuckers.

[JohnH]

The Baron could clarify, but the virtual vintage looks like a single coil, and seems to be a stacked Hb (its hum cancelling i believe), while the others look like normal Hbs. So Im assuming the on-on-on switches apply to the neck and bridge. Is that right Baron?

[Baron ManShred Von PickedOften]

That's correct. There is one on/on/on switch for the neck pickup, and one for the bridge pickup - both traditional 4-wire humbuckers.

The Virtual Vintage (mine is a 2.2) is a stacked humbucker. DiMarzio cropped the black and white wires and attached them at the factory, so there are only two leads that can be connected - the red and green.

The on/on/on switches are wired correctly. Whether I'm using the neck or the bridge, I'm getting 3 distinct sounds, one of which gives me some hum (single-coil).

I haven't had time to dismantle the pickguard again to try some of the ideas here. I'll get to it shortly.

ON another note, are there any special provisions I should make for shielding? I"m using a pure aluminum pickguard, but the body cavities are done with copper foil from Monte Allums. This guitar is considerably noisier than the other Strat I did (traditional celluloid pickguard with copper shielding). Any ideas why?

Thanks

George

[wolf]

Baron
So how is the Virtual Vintage connected in the circuit. You mentioned you can get 3 sounds from it? I don't see how if it only has 2 wires coming out of it.

[Baron ManShred Von PickedOften]

Sorry for the confusion.

The middle pickup (VV) is wired like any other "normal" single coil pickup. I only get one sound from it.

I get three distinct sounds from the neck pickup courtesy the on/on/on switch. I also get three distinct sounds from the bridge pickup, from its own on/on/on switch.

When the neck pickup (regardless of on/on/on position) and middle are engaged, the sound is full and clear.

When the bridge pickup (regardless of on/on/on position) and middle are engaged, the sound is thin and brittle. The ONLY exception to this is if I blend in the neck pickup, in which case the sound thickens a bit, but is till somewhat thin and nasal.

Thanks!

[wolf]

Well, as I said in Reply #5, the bridge pickup leads may have to be reversed.

[Baron ManShred Von PickedOften]

That's what I'll try...

My final question then: Do I reverse both sets of leads? ie: red and green, and black and white?

Thanks!

George

[wolf]

Baron
You probably have the humbuckers wired in this manner, correct? (The left side - the DiMarzio side) (Just ignore the Seymour Duncan wiring on the right)



Reverse the leads going FROM the - and + and not any of the colored wires. The - and + leads would be the ones loacted on the 5 way switch.