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Post by asmith on Sept 8, 2011 15:19:57 GMT -5
I was browsing over ChrisK's FREE Neck On Switch today. I can't help but think Chris got it wrong this time. In the description, Chris explained that if the Neck Tone Control was at 10, then you'd hear the Neck pickup, but otherwise it wasn't. I'm looking it at, and I'm thinking the Neck Tone Control potentiometer is just splitting the pickup's signal between the tone cap to ground, and the output. One is just putting resistance in series with the pickup output - dampening the resonance peak of the circuit - whilst simultaneously "turning down" the tone control. You won't 'switch off' the pickup, it's just another (weirder) tone control. Also, if the Tone Control is at 0, then all the low frequencies that don't pass through the cap head through the wiring to the Middle Tone Control, are at the mercy of some variable resistance in series with the signal, then are connected to the output. Indeed, if both controls are at 0, then the Neck Pickup will be heard at "0" Tone with whatever else is selected. Essentially, what I'm asking is, is variable resistance in series with a pickup a working version of a volume control?And even if it is, isn't Chris's scheme flawed? Sacriledge over. |
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Post by newey on Sept 8, 2011 16:11:03 GMT -5
asmith-
I think you're over-thinking this. Think in terms of how a potentiometer works. As the knob is turned, resistance is increased between the wiper and the "left" lug (as we are looking at the diagram), and decreased between the wiper and the "right" lug. When we wire both left and right lugs, we have essentially wired the pot as a "blend" pot. In this case, the blending is between the neck pup directly to output, and the tone capacitor.
Below about "9" on the knob, there is enough resistance between the one lug and the wiper so as to negate the contribution of the neck pup, unless it's selected on the 5-way switch.
Chris is assuming the use of the std Strat tone controls, meaning a log taper. If a linear taper was used, the "neck on" action would happen before "9" or so.
Your point about the interaction of the tone controls is only applicable to position 4 (N + M) on the 5-way. You are correct that there will be interaction in that position, that is the case even with std. Strat wiring. Whether the interaction is any worse with the "neck on" is, I suspect, a matter of taste.
At least, that's how I interpreted what was going on here.
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Post by asmith on Sept 8, 2011 18:59:48 GMT -5
Below about "9" on the knob, there is enough resistance between the one lug and the wiper so as to negate the contribution of the neck pup, unless it's selected on the 5-way switch. So essentially, a resistance of let's say 50k, is enough to negate the contribution of the Neck Pickup? Not so. Imagine Chris's diagram in the "Bridge" position, where the "1" lugs of the switch is connected to the common ("P") lugs. If both Neck and Middle Tones are at 0, trace the signal from the Neck pickup like so: Neck Pickup -> Switch Lug "3" -> Neck Tone Wiper Lug -> Neck Tone "Cap" Lug -> Middle Tone Wiper Lug -> Middle Tone Input Lug -> Switch Lug "2" -> Switch Lug "1" -> Volume Control -> Output. This happens for positions 1, 2, 3 & 4. |
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Post by newey on Sept 8, 2011 22:40:49 GMT -5
In std. Strat wiring, the tone control is not connected at the bridge position, position #1. That appears to be an error in the diagram, as the only changed wiring from std is supposed to be the orange "neck on" wires in place of the crossed-out purple wire.
I don't think the blue jumper to position 1 from position 2 is supposed to be there.
Indeed, to avoid any tone control interaction, the mid tone can be wired to the bridge pup- that's one of the variations shown in ChrisK's diagrams, and is a pretty standard Start mod with or without other changes.
As far as the concept goes, the same idea has been used by JohnH to cut a HB to single coil in several of his designs, by wiring a tone pot in the same manner. And the neck-on scheme has been built, and works as advertised.
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Post by D2o on Sept 8, 2011 22:41:46 GMT -5
Hi asmith,
FWIW, before settling on my current wiring, I had wired my strat with the free neck on and it works as advertised.
Chris once told me "You don't have to buy it, just believe it" ... when Chris said it, I believed it, and it worked.
D2o
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Post by JohnH on Sept 9, 2011 0:58:20 GMT -5
Yes, these sorts of ideas do indeed work, particularly if you have a large value tone pot such as 500k. Theres plenty of resistance available to effectively take the neck audibly out of the mix, before turning the pot so much that the tone gets dulled.
The things I do with the tone pot are a bit different, generally cutting out or bypassing a coil at 10, rather than connecting it in. But I did once do a test with two pickups in parallel, each of about 4k, and adding a resistance in series with one of them. I found that the effect of the diminished pickup was virtually inaudible in comparison to the other, after the resistance was more than about 30 or 40k. So if that was generally true, in Chris' neck-on arrangement, just a very small turn of the tone pot down below 10 would take out the added neck effect.
cheers
John
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Post by asmith on Sept 9, 2011 4:03:41 GMT -5
I don't think the blue jumper to position 1 from position 2 is supposed to be there. OK. So the "dulled neck" tone will still come through in parallel in positions 2 and 3 - but that's standard operating procedure. As far as the concept goes, the same idea has been used by JohnH to cut a HB to single coil in several of his designs, by wiring a tone pot in the same manner. Yeah - I figured that was different, because with John's controls one was placing resistance between the coil and ground to 'avoid' shorting the pickup, instead of placing it between the coil and hot to knock it out. Like so: The things I do with the tone pot are a bit different, generally cutting out or bypassing a coil at 10, rather than connecting it in. But even so; And the neck-on scheme has been built, and works as advertised. FWIW, before settling on my current wiring, I had wired my strat with the free neck on and it works as advertised. Well, that pretty much throws the discussion out the window. But I did once do a test with two pickups in parallel, each of about 4k, and adding a resistance in series with one of them. I found that the effect of the diminished ickup was virtually inauddible in comparison to the other, after the resistance was more than about 30 or 40k. So if that was generally true, in Chris' neck-on arrangement, just a vert small turn of the tone pot down below 10 would take out the added neck effect. Thread closed, delinquent educated. Thanks gents. |
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Post by newey on Sept 9, 2011 6:12:50 GMT -5
That's a bit harsh. Your question(s) made me think again, in some depth, about this topic, so it goes both ways with education. asmith, you know your stuff "pretty durn good" (as some portions of these colonies would put it). So, no false self-deprecation needed. Although, in another sense, the "education" we offer here may be much like the one a delinquent would get from his fellows while in lockup . . .  ;D |
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Post by asmith on Sept 9, 2011 6:39:01 GMT -5
That's a bit harsh. Your question(s) made me think again, in some depth, about this topic, so it goes both ways with education. asmith, you know your stuff "pretty durn good" (as some portions of these colonies would put it). So, no false self-deprecation needed. Whoa whoa whoa. I'm going to have to put the Union Jack as my avatar if this goes on. I'm not being self-pitying, it's just a manner of speech. Seriously, I look like this at the weekends.  |
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Post by newey on Sept 9, 2011 7:38:04 GMT -5
Your delinquents over there are considerably better dressed than ours are. ;D |
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Post by cynical1 on Sept 9, 2011 11:50:44 GMT -5
Your delinquents over there are considerably better dressed than ours are. ;D Well, of course...they've just had a few weeks to pick out a free wardrobe... |
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Post by JohnH on Sept 9, 2011 15:31:28 GMT -5
Seriously, I look like this at the weekends. Let's just let the Americans ponder for a while on what a chip butty may be. I think I'll go and have one right now..... John |
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Post by cynical1 on Sept 9, 2011 20:12:17 GMT -5
Let's just let the Americans ponder for a while on what a chip butty may be. I think I'll go and have one right now..... John Well, I know what it is. It's the equivalent of a french fry sandwich with either HP Sauce...or ketchup for the less discerning palate...plastered over it. HTC1 |
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Post by gumbo on Sept 11, 2011 4:43:36 GMT -5
...or.. (very!) doughy bread roll...poke hole in the side, pull out at least 50% of the doughy bread...then fill the resulting void with hot chips (after first injecting a reasonable amount of sauce (ketchup, whatever!) ....good to eat while riding a pushbike ...preferably at night  |
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;D
